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404nf
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22 Sep 2014, 4:22 pm

I'm stuck in a really bad situation, and I just don't know how to get out of it. I've got this very close relative who knows I'm good with computers, and this relative is expecting me to basically complete their college assignment for them. Its a programming project, in a language I hate hate hate. I can't say no to this relative to their face, or even in a subtler way. I asked my parents for help and they told me that I should help the person out. I'm all for helping someone out, but you can't expect me to complete your entire project for you dude. I've got work of my own, and anyway, every classmate of yours will be doing it on their own. What do you do all day in college if you can't get a simple project done without my help? Now I know for one that this relative knows nothing at all about programming, and if I do not help them out, they're gonna fail. But they're supposed to know programming. They go to an engineering college for the FSMs sake. I just can not say no to them, and I do not know what to do. I want to get myself out of this situation, but I don't know how.



downbutnotout
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22 Sep 2014, 5:16 pm

What are the details of this project? If they're supposed to be making a game, for example, you can go over concepts like classes and methods with them instead.

I'm helping a classmate cover VLSM subnetting, but while we're expected to learn it so that we can apply it when needed we're not actually being given any of it as coursework.



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22 Sep 2014, 5:49 pm

DO. NOT. DO. IT. FOR. THEM.

PERIOD.

1) It's illegal. It's academic dishonesty. If they get caught, they fail for sure, and will probably either land on academic probation or get kicked out. If you go to the same school, or plan to, or even if you don't, you could get in trouble too.

That's really reason enough, right there. ALL YOU NEED. Tell them that.

The answer's gonna be, "We're not going to get caught."

YES. YOU. WILL.

It's early in the term (unless this school runs on a totally different schedule from US schools, anyway). If he can't do this, there's going to be more he can't do. Which will end in one of two things: You take on more of his work, or he gets caught.

2) If he can't do this, what else can't he do?? Let's be real charitable and say you get him through college. Trust me (my hubby is an ME), he's not going to be able to bumble his way through holding a job. There's a reason there are so many Aspie engineers-- it is one of the few professions in which sparkling social skills will not substitute for the ability to DO THE FREAKIN' WORK.

3) You're not going to have the time to ghost-write dozens of projects; assuming he's fairly early in his education, they're going to get longer and more involved (Trust me-- Hubby was an 18-year-old first-semester freshman when we got married; I saw the whole process, from zero-level classes up).

4) YOU WOULD NOT BE DOING HIM A FAVOR. If he doesn't learn the groundwork now, he's going to be sunk later. With more time and money invested, or more debt.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LEAVE HIM OUT THERE COLD.

It's not a, "Screw you dude, now go home" proposition. It's a, "Dude, I will HELP you do this" proposition. "I will hold your hand and walk you through every line of code if necessary, but you WILL invest every bit as much work as I do and you WILL learn this material."

If he's too lazy to do that, then he doesn't belong in engineering school. There's a reason engineering programs have a really high wash-out rate. If he thinks engineering SCHOOL is too much work and too much trouble, he really doesn't need to be in an engineering FIRM. TRUST ME.

Been there, done that (doing people's work for them, not engineering school-- I got a freakin' useless liberal arts degree). I did my cousin's English Lit projects all through high school, because I liked his company (he did at least sit there with me and feed me ideas), and I loved him, and I wanted to be accepted and be contributing and all that good crap.

And he got to college and almost flunked out because he couldn't write, and I wasn't home every weeknight to bail him out any more. He did manage to drag himself up and graduate (or for all I know hire someone else, or beg his wife into doing it), but it was a lot harder on him than it would have been if I'd made him LEARN TO WRITE IN THE FIRST PLACE.


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404nf
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23 Sep 2014, 5:49 am

BuyerBeware wrote:
DO. NOT. DO. IT. FOR. THEM.

PERIOD.

1) It's illegal. It's academic dishonesty. If they get caught, they fail for sure, and will probably either land on academic probation or get kicked out. If you go to the same school, or plan to, or even if you don't, you could get in trouble too.

That's really reason enough, right there. ALL YOU NEED. Tell them that.

The answer's gonna be, "We're not going to get caught."

YES. YOU. WILL.

It's early in the term (unless this school runs on a totally different schedule from US schools, anyway). If he can't do this, there's going to be more he can't do. Which will end in one of two things: You take on more of his work, or he gets caught.

2) If he can't do this, what else can't he do?? Let's be real charitable and say you get him through college. Trust me (my hubby is an ME), he's not going to be able to bumble his way through holding a job. There's a reason there are so many Aspie engineers-- it is one of the few professions in which sparkling social skills will not substitute for the ability to DO THE FREAKIN' WORK.

3) You're not going to have the time to ghost-write dozens of projects; assuming he's fairly early in his education, they're going to get longer and more involved (Trust me-- Hubby was an 18-year-old first-semester freshman when we got married; I saw the whole process, from zero-level classes up).

4) YOU WOULD NOT BE DOING HIM A FAVOR. If he doesn't learn the groundwork now, he's going to be sunk later. With more time and money invested, or more debt.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LEAVE HIM OUT THERE COLD.

It's not a, "Screw you dude, now go home" proposition. It's a, "Dude, I will HELP you do this" proposition. "I will hold your hand and walk you through every line of code if necessary, but you WILL invest every bit as much work as I do and you WILL learn this material."

If he's too lazy to do that, then he doesn't belong in engineering school. There's a reason engineering programs have a really high wash-out rate. If he thinks engineering SCHOOL is too much work and too much trouble, he really doesn't need to be in an engineering FIRM. TRUST ME.

Been there, done that (doing people's work for them, not engineering school-- I got a freakin' useless liberal arts degree). I did my cousin's English Lit projects all through high school, because I liked his company (he did at least sit there with me and feed me ideas), and I loved him, and I wanted to be accepted and be contributing and all that good crap.

And he got to college and almost flunked out because he couldn't write, and I wasn't home every weeknight to bail him out any more. He did manage to drag himself up and graduate (or for all I know hire someone else, or beg his wife into doing it), but it was a lot harder on him than it would have been if I'd made him LEARN TO WRITE IN THE FIRST PLACE.


I believe this is the first programming project this person has received, and its just simply creating a database application in VB.net. If they can't do that, then yes, I don't think they can do jack s**t. And if I get them through college this way, then I'm going to have to get them through their job, and possibly their entire life holding their hands. Its not something I'm willing to do. I am not interested in writing a single project for anyone.

The problem is, this person is not interested in getting help and learning how to do s**t on their own. I told them I can help them, but they insisted I do it for them.

The problem is, I don't know how to get rid of this person. If I say no outright, that is going to affect my relationship with them badly(which I don't care about, this is solely due to parental pressure). My parents insist that I do it for this person, because they are not in a good place financially. What should I do? I do not have the required social skills to handle this situation the way it should be.

@downbutnotout Its a damn simple database application. They were supposed to have learned all the concepts in class, and this project is given to test what they learned. And even if I do try helping them, I'm more of a sysadmin, and am still just learning the basics of programming myself.



andyfzr
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24 Sep 2014, 4:34 pm

He's using you bro, just tell him its unethical and illegal so you can't bring yourself to do it. At worst he will sulk a bit and try and play on your emotions but he'll get over it, people always do after a week or so. Turn it round and say its making you feel very uncomfortable and edgy and get him to feel sympathetic to you. Any decent person or friend would not ask you to do such a thing. its your shout.



downbutnotout
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24 Sep 2014, 5:15 pm

404nf wrote:
@downbutnotout Its a damn simple database application. They were supposed to have learned all the concepts in class, and this project is given to test what they learned. And even if I do try helping them, I'm more of a sysadmin, and am still just learning the basics of programming myself.


Alright, then. Any particular reason you can't refuse?

Programming isn't exactly magical, so I think a sysadmin would be able to grasp the concepts and discuss them with someone without much difficulty. There are a lot of resources online, too, if the course materials aren't something he can re-read quickly.

You could also do such a bad job that he'll never ask you again. One of my coworkers responsible for helping students with their written and spoken assignments sometimes plays dumb or works slowly when someone is trying to trick him into doing the work for him. Eventually they get so sick of it that they just do it themselves.



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25 Sep 2014, 9:39 am

It sounds a lot like he has a case of lazyitis. He also sounds like he is quite manipulative. If you do say something to him it needs to be gentle and firm at the same time.

"Listen I know that you are having a hard time in this area and I am happy to help. Unfortunately I really feel that since you are in college that it is your responsibility to do the work. I am sure they have all kinds of tutors and support systems at your school. I can't keep doing the work for you. How are you going to move forward if I do the work for you?"



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27 Sep 2014, 12:04 pm

If that's their attitude, there isn't a socially "nice" way to handle it without caving. That's what they want, and they are not going to accept anything less.

"I offered to help him. He doesn't want help. I am not doing it for him." It is probably going to make them angry-- OH WELL. Having good social skills doesn't mean that you never make an unpopular decision, or have to stand up for yourself in a way that people don't like. It doesn't mean that, somehow, you have the finesse to get everyone who matters to like all your decisions.

You say no, they get mad, sooner or later they get over it.


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"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"


404nf
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27 Sep 2014, 5:39 pm

downbutnotout wrote:
404nf wrote:
@downbutnotout Its a damn simple database application. They were supposed to have learned all the concepts in class, and this project is given to test what they learned. And even if I do try helping them, I'm more of a sysadmin, and am still just learning the basics of programming myself.


Alright, then. Any particular reason you can't refuse?

Programming isn't exactly magical, so I think a sysadmin would be able to grasp the concepts and discuss them with someone without much difficulty. There are a lot of resources online, too, if the course materials aren't something he can re-read quickly.

You could also do such a bad job that he'll never ask you again. One of my coworkers responsible for helping students with their written and spoken assignments sometimes plays dumb or works slowly when someone is trying to trick him into doing the work for him. Eventually they get so sick of it that they just do it themselves.


I just have difficulty saying no to people. I end up getting used by people a lot due to this weakness though.

I'm in the learning stages myself, at this moment. The thing is, they're already supposed to know everything they have to do to make this application.

I'm going to tell them that they can't expect me to do their work for them. If you get stuck, and need my help, I'll guide you, even if it takes me hours. But no darn way am I doing your homework for you dude.

@andyfzr I'm going to tell him I can't do it for him, and he should focus in class instead of relying on others to get them through college.

@Summer_Twilight That sounds nice. I'll probably use a version of that when I recieve a call from them.

@BuyerBeware Thanks, I just thought there was a socially "nice" way to deal with this problem, and maybe I wasn't aware of that way. Since there doesn't seem to be a nice way of doing this, I'm going to have to tell them no to the face even if it makes them feel bad.