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Bomir
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25 Mar 2015, 2:04 pm

This has been a big issue for me my whole life. When I have conversations with people and they say things that have logical loopholes (usually fairly simple ones) or simply uninformed things and I ask a simple question to maybe receive some clarification I am looked at as the bad guy or a dick? As an Aspie, I understand the gut wrenching moment when you realize you have said something wrong; but, I am always thankful it was brought to my attention. NTs instead of being thankful become resentful and defensive and worse yet, witnesses to the conversation rally around them. Women I notice especially do not like to be questioned when they are emotional and they say I am "emotionally invalidating" when I do but.... why is this taken as a negative? How do NTs in their heads see past the gaps and be supportive without being bothered by the idea that they are letting people they care about say things that are making them look foolish? Personally, I dread the idea that a friend of mine would let me do this, especially if I found out down the road.



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25 Mar 2015, 2:24 pm

This isn't an easy question to answer, and in any case I don't think there is an answer, at least not a simple one. In general, NTs don't have the same commitment to honesty, authenticity and integrity that Aspergians do. A lot of the time they don't apply logic to situations, preferring a superficial approach that is easier to handle. So anyone who thinks and acts logically is likely to attract their resentment, because they are reminding them (perhaps subconsciously) of how shallow they are; that they have lowered their personal standards in order to gain acceptance and life's comforts.

Oddly enough, the Aspien approach to life is virtually identical to the teachings of the Stoic philosopher, Epictetus. For years I have read a little from his Discourses every day, and am always struck by two things: 1. How much wisdom is contained in his simple words. 2. That if the neurotypical majority were to read and follow his teachings, their lives would be improved immeasurably. (BTW, in case you're interested and haven't yet read them, Epictetus' Discourses are available in a modern interpretation called 'The Art of Living').



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25 Mar 2015, 2:43 pm

Challenge the Hive Mind at your own peril.

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25 Mar 2015, 2:51 pm

My ex who was aspie didn't like to be questioned either. He would get defensive. I just want things to make sense and I want to understand. I think some people feel when you keep on questioning them, they feel you are calling them a liar and you don't believe them and some don't understand why you must know every single detail and trivia than just accepting their answer. I think you have to be careful how you ask them so you don't come off as you are accusing them or being judgmental. Some people do not take accusations well so they get defensive.


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slenkar
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25 Mar 2015, 3:28 pm

if you ask a question about the same thing more than 3 times its annoying , even if the questions are spread out over several months, because it does feel like not being believed.

Being asked different questions is great though,



Bomir
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25 Mar 2015, 4:09 pm

Well I'll give you an example that happened yesterday and maybe someone could give me feedback:

Roommate: Ugh, I'm exhausted. I had to go to Safeway (grocery store across the street) like 5 times today, once to go to Starbucks, once to pick up food for dinner and then again because I forgot something.
Me: Um.... that's 3 times.... you usually go there 3 times a day....
Roommate: Why do you always have to think about everything? You're not very thoughtful you know.
Me: :skull: *Head exploded* :skull:

:evil:



slenkar
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25 Mar 2015, 4:40 pm

So the roommate doesnt like being contradicted but when he/she gives inaccurate numbers it frustrates you :D



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25 Mar 2015, 4:52 pm

Ugh, I try to explain what I mean, after they don't get it through their thick skulls after several times, forgive my ego or feeling of self esteem, they are DUMB! I can't waste time and energy on people too ignorant to even TRY to understand me without jumping down my throat how my thinking is irrational.



Bomir
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25 Mar 2015, 5:04 pm

slenkar wrote:
So the roommate doesnt like being contradicted but when he/she gives inaccurate numbers it frustrates you :D


Along with sentences such as the illogical atrocity at the end there....



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25 Mar 2015, 5:20 pm

People don't like to be corrected because it makes them feel like idiots. I learned that the hard way.

Sometimes it is necessary to correct someone, but on minor things (like how many times someone went to Safeway), it is better to not correct someone. Save the corrections for things that really MEAN something.

Correcting people on minor things will make you look like you feel superior to others, even if you don't meant to communicate that. It also communicates that you are hard to please and difficult to be around. It makes others afraid of making mistakes because you will pick up on and point out every single one.

Learning when and when not to ask questions or correct people is an art. I ask myself these questions:
Is it important for the person to know?
Will the incorrect information damage a relationship or cause someone to make a bad decision, etc.?
Will this issue matter in five years?

etc. If the answer is "no", leave it be.

BTW, getting the number of times one went to Safeway wrong does not indicate a "shallow thinker."



Bomir
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25 Mar 2015, 5:43 pm

nerdygirl wrote:
People don't like to be corrected because it makes them feel like idiots. I learned that the hard way.

Sometimes it is necessary to correct someone, but on minor things (like how many times someone went to Safeway), it is better to not correct someone. Save the corrections for things that really MEAN something.

Correcting people on minor things will make you look like you feel superior to others, even if you don't meant to communicate that. It also communicates that you are hard to please and difficult to be around. It makes others afraid of making mistakes because you will pick up on and point out every single one.

Learning when and when not to ask questions or correct people is an art. I ask myself these questions:
Is it important for the person to know?
Will the incorrect information damage a relationship or cause someone to make a bad decision, etc.?
Will this issue matter in five years?

etc. If the answer is "no", leave it be.

BTW, getting the number of times one went to Safeway wrong does not indicate a "shallow thinker."


But how do you get past that nagging feeling that you're being a bad person by letting the people you care about make themselves look dumb? To me it's kind of like if you let your friend walk around with toilet paper hanging out of the back of their pants. I mean if a friend found out you let them do that knowingly, they'd be pissed. I just feel so compelled out of compassion I guess.

And I call that shallow thinking because even a split second of further thought would have allowed them to most likely catch themselves. (Well that's my faith in them as people I care about).



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25 Mar 2015, 7:30 pm

Bomir wrote:
How Do NT's Handle Shallow Thinkers?
They make them their BFFs.



nerdygirl
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25 Mar 2015, 7:53 pm

Bomir wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
People don't like to be corrected because it makes them feel like idiots. I learned that the hard way.

Sometimes it is necessary to correct someone, but on minor things (like how many times someone went to Safeway), it is better to not correct someone. Save the corrections for things that really MEAN something.

Correcting people on minor things will make you look like you feel superior to others, even if you don't meant to communicate that. It also communicates that you are hard to please and difficult to be around. It makes others afraid of making mistakes because you will pick up on and point out every single one.

Learning when and when not to ask questions or correct people is an art. I ask myself these questions:
Is it important for the person to know?
Will the incorrect information damage a relationship or cause someone to make a bad decision, etc.?
Will this issue matter in five years?

etc. If the answer is "no", leave it be.

BTW, getting the number of times one went to Safeway wrong does not indicate a "shallow thinker."


But how do you get past that nagging feeling that you're being a bad person by letting the people you care about make themselves look dumb? To me it's kind of like if you let your friend walk around with toilet paper hanging out of the back of their pants. I mean if a friend found out you let them do that knowingly, they'd be pissed. I just feel so compelled out of compassion I guess.

And I call that shallow thinking because even a split second of further thought would have allowed them to most likely catch themselves. (Well that's my faith in them as people I care about).


A split-second of further thought would also keep me from locking myself out of my house, bumping into things, avoiding saying things that are a social faux pas and numerous other negative things. I can be an absent-minded social idiot quite easily, as I believe many with AS can be. If an extra "split-second" of thought was all it took, everyone here on WP is a shallow thinker!

As far as your toilet-paper scenario, I would file that under question #1. Is it important for the person to know? The answer is YES. Not knowing something like that could bring them ridicule. In that instance, say something. Just try to be discreet about it. Like don't yell it or say it in front of a bunch of people - say it quietly in private.



slw1990
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27 Mar 2015, 7:58 pm

Sometimes I question people close to me when some of the things they say don't add up to what they said before. I ask the questions to try to get more clarification because it makes me uneasy when things don't add up, but sometimes they just think I'm trying to argue or something instead. I guess in some cases it's just better not to ask any questions to avoid conflict and misunderstandings.



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29 Mar 2015, 6:34 pm

Depends...are these NTs you speak of the type that like to manipulate/control others? :twisted:


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League_Girl
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03 Apr 2015, 12:54 pm

slw1990 wrote:
Sometimes I question people close to me when some of the things they say don't add up to what they said before. I ask the questions to try to get more clarification because it makes me uneasy when things don't add up, but sometimes they just think I'm trying to argue or something instead. I guess in some cases it's just better not to ask any questions to avoid conflict and misunderstandings.



I do this too and some people don't like it when you do it. I guess they would rather have you assume they were lying because it didn't make sense but they wouldn't like that either. :?


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