Empathy between Autists

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Lately I've been reading and thinking about ways it can be challenging for Auties and Aspies to have empathetic understanding with non-autists. There's a lot of discussion of this in the media and in the academy. Much of it is controversial. What's striking to me is how little research and writing is done on interpersonal understanding between autists. What about empathy between Auties and Aspies? Do autists share a form of understanding with one another that they don't have as readily with non-autists? If so, how would we explain it and describe it?

Call me a jerk but I don't feel empathy towards low-functioning autistics. Only high-functionings and other aspies. I'm just like that. Sorry if I offend people.

I feel very limited empathy towards anybody on the spectrum. Perhaps even less than I do with NTs (which isn't too much).

I actually can be quite empathetic towards a lot of people. However, I find it's hard to express that empathy towards them. I usually keep it to myself because it triggers anxiety. I think that a lot of people with autism are very empathetic, but it's just that because we are wired differently, we tend to find it hard to express how we feel. I don't believe that anyone with autism 'lacks' empathy at all. It's just the matter of how we express ourselves and show our feelings and such. People seem to think this is a lack of empathy because it's not normal for most people to express it in a different way.

I tend to sense negative emotions from others. This triggers my anxiety, and it can often causes meltdowns or outbursts because I'm overwhelmed by it. So, I really have to doubt that people with autism lack empathy towards other people... whether they are autistic or not. The thing is that people with autism are usually just like someone without autism. We are all human, and it's just as easy for a non-autistic to lack empathy as it would be for someone who does have it. I hate how people think we don't show emotion or feelings towards others to be honest. :/

I do feel a somewhat tribal empathy towards Aspies/Auties. It's a kind of "my people" response. I haven't studied it much myself, but I would think it comes from a perceived bond of a shared experience. People who go through trauma together are often bonded by it. People who like the same TV show are bonded by it. So why can't there be a bond created between a shared experience, even if those sharing it are not in the same geographic location? However, I must say I feel more empathy with those at a similar point on the spectrum, and less for those further away. Again, somewhat tribal. Anyway, that's my current thinking.

I have a reliable affective empathetic response to 3 people.

One is autistic.

One is neurotypical but nerdy.

The third is a dog.

Cool variety in responses! Just seeing some replies here, it seems like there'd be a lot of variety in responses by Auties and Aspies if any researcher ever decides to care about this aspect of the theme "empathy and autism" and ask autists themselves how they experience neglected aspects of the relation.

It's kinda suspicious to me that only the autist ---> non-autist side of the autist<--> non-autist interpersonal relation tends to get studied in any thoroughgoing way and that possibly interesting differences how autists interact and understand one another (autist <---> autist) is rarely studied in the science and philosophy of autism. If people really want to help and understand, you'd think we'd be studying the issue from all angles.

I don't know any other autistics normally, but I just met and had a conversation with an aspie tonight - I was surprised how much more comfortable it is with the eye contact thing. They didn't do eye contact either, so the pressure was off me to provide it as I knew they would find eye contact as uncomfortable as I do, and thus we just chatted along neither person even having to look at the other. As I said, surprising. I never mention being autistic, but I mentioned it to this person as they had mentioned aspergers, and yes, it did seem to give us something in common and some shared experience between us. It'll be interesting to see how that goes, if I see them or meet any other autistics again, and if its easier than making NT friends.

Maybe all of these studies are commissioned by NTs? I was going to say "maybe none of the people carrying out the studies or analysis are aspies/auties" but that would be stupid.

2nd every word.
I've had to learn to turn off my empathy over the last 10 years. If I allowed every persons emotion to disrupt my balance I'd be borderline violent. I reserve my empathy for my wife and kids which is a far smaller emotional world to deal with. The reduction in empathy to everyone else has worsened my sociability. If aspies didn't have empathy I don't believe there would be a forum.

That definitely makes sense. Seems like whether something is investigated in science depends on the interests of those who fund the research. But I guess what I wonder is why these researchers aren't more interested in how Aspies and Auties relate to each other in their quest to understand troubles with how Aspies and Auties relate to NTs. If they investigated autist <---> autist social interaction wouldn't it also give some insight into other kinds of social interactions?

I wonder too if there's an assumption at work: that autists don't have a kind of unifying culture or community or way of engaging with one another, like people from a similar culture or NTs, who engaged in socially conventional forms of interaction and are like-minded, as a result.

So many things seem wrong with that assumption to me.

[So, I really have to doubt that people with autism lack empathy towards other people... whether they are autistic or not. The thing is that people with autism are usually just like someone without autism. We are all human, and it's just as easy for a non-autistic to lack empathy as it would be for someone who does have it. I hate how people think we don't show emotion or feelings towards others to be honest. :/[/quote]
2nd every word.
I've had to learn to turn off my empathy over the last 10 years. If I allowed every persons emotion to disrupt my balance I'd be borderline violent. I reserve my empathy for my wife and kids which is a far smaller emotional world to deal with. The reduction in empathy to everyone else has worsened my sociability. If aspies didn't have empathy I don't believe there would be a forum.[/quote]

Totally agree that it's a gross generalization and dangerous misconception to say, in one fell swoop and without any qualifications, that Aspies or Auties "lack empathy". It's one thing for a person to struggle with some aspects in some situations with some kinds of people. It's another to say that empathy is lacking in those cases. Just cuz it can't be recognized in familiar forms doesn't mean it isn't there. And even if it isn't there in some cases, why is the "blame" or responsibility on the Autie's or Aspie's side of the interaction?

I have normal empathy towards NTs, but, like NTs, I fail to understand how it feels to be severely Autistic.

I understand some autistic people better than other autistic people or NTs, I think.
The more rational types who seem to share my version of the real world, I understand the best, I think.
Also I understand NTs like this better than other NTs.

I think most discussions a and studies about empathy are thwarted by the fact that the word "empathy" is used for a few different concepts. No one ever defines their use of the word, and the concepts tend to get conflates. It's always assumed that lacking one type of empathy means you lack all of them, even though that makes no sense because they're completely different traits/skills that just happen to share the same word due to a quirk of language.

Here are the different ideas I've seen for the word empathy:

1. Having your emotions affected by the emotions of others, or even just giving a damn about other people's feelings. The lack of this trait is the defining characteristic of sociopathy, but it seems normal for very young children to lack it too.

2. Being able to identify another person's emotional state based on things like facial expression, body language, etc. This is a common problem for people with ASCs.

3. Being able to predict what another person's emotional state will be after some hypothetical event, and adjusting your actions to avoid inflicting negative emotions on people, e.g. Bob will probably feel upset if I punch him in the face, so I won't do that. Some events are easier to predict than others, and it's easier to make predictions about people you know well. It's impossible for anyone who lacks a cognitive capacity for cause and effect (e.g. very young children) and difficult for people who are highly impulsive (e.g. anyone with hyperactive-type ADHD, most children).

4. Being able to understand another person's situation, accurately put yourself in their metaphorical shoes. The more similar another person's situation is to something you've experienced, the easier this is.

This sounds accurate with the term ''empathy'', but it is not something people should use to measure the emotional differences between Aspies and NTs.

You're right about the sociopathy and young children. But some people lack this more than others. Bullies, for example. Bullies don't give a damn about the person's feelings. There are lots of different types of bullying, but the type of bullying I've mostly experienced was people humiliating me for their own enjoyment. It seems they never even stopped to think ''hang on, I'd hate it if people were doing this to me, so this poor girl must be feeling really humiliated and bad about herself here. Let's stop right now, before we emotionally hurt her even more.''


I think that is the most common form of empathy with the general population (mostly NTs). Not only people with ASDs can lack this ability, but also people with other disabilities can too, like some forms of mental retardation. I used to know a girl who wasn't on the spectrum but definitely had some learning delays and required special ed at school, and she often misunderstood general body language in others.



That is the most fair way to put it. It's not too generalized, and it's not saying ''all NTs have good empathy for anyone in any given situation'' or ''Aspies lack all empathy for anyone in any given situation''. That just sounds so inaccurate that it's like saying ''all Muslims are terrorists, all non-Muslims aren't''. Notice how offensive that sounds?
Not getting at the poster who wrote this by the way, just making a point. The poster who explained these empathy points has a really good point, and I like the way it is wrote.



That's true. Most people criticise me if I'm feeling anxious about something they wouldn't feel anxious about as an individual, as if they really can't see how or why I feel this way. I've noticed this so many times in so many people that it seems to be a normal thing. But if that person feels anxious of the same thing I feel anxious about, they empathise. And it's not just a ''me vs them'' thing. I've seen it among other people too.

So yeah, you've made a realistic point in each of your clarifications about empathy. Good job.