Socially ret*d, or socially gifted?

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When I compare myself to other humans in the social aspect, I do find myself lacking. I used to argue that I was not socially ret*d, but then I read a case study about someone with Asperger's and hopefully I'll have a diagnosis on friday. But on to my point.

There was an author who made a reference to being autistic as being 'an anthropologist on Mars' and I think that's a really good analogy. I think I'm quite advanced for having a neuro-atypical brain. If an alien race were to try to blend in I think they would do a much worse job than I have done (assuming they have the same functioning-power as my brain).

My point is I think people with Asperger's, for the most part, do a really good job at logically, systematically defining complex social phenomena. Maybe we aren't socially ret*d.

hmm...i've always wondered that...

I'm really curious. I mean, maybe it's just that we go about it in a different way. So it seems a little harder for us to process. Being extremely analytical can do that. Breaking things down systematically is harder than 'just understanding'. Which I've been accused of my entire life, 'You're making it too complicated'.

I have often wondered this myself.

We don't pick it up naturally, we have to deduce it logically. This is more effort, so I say it is a shortcoming. NT's can analyse it just as well as we can, and don't lose out.

EDIT: I call it a consellation prize, and a lame one at that.

Oh yes we are, but your other point is correct too.

One phenomena I noticed whilst realising that Asperger's was me, and getting diagnosed, was that of "too much and too little"

Observant of key little details, sometimes to the point of distraction,
but insensitive to quite big social cues (as rated by the norm)

Subject to overrsensitivity to light and sound, but hardly to fashion.

Yes, very highly developed logically abilities, but barely able to recognise that there are other methods of operating.

And sometimes that very logic can be paralysing, becuse I'm still analysing when I should be acting. (I had to work that one out of my system in respect of driving, and it wasn't easy)



I'd say I'm better at fewer things.
Whether that makes me gifted or ret*d then depends precisely on what I'm trying to do!

Better at everything would be nice. There have been a few real polymaths who encompassed social skills, but they are exceptionally rare.

My freshman biology teacher always told me 'just step back 10 yards'.

The first time he said that to me I almost got out of my chair, then I realized I didn't know exactly how long a yard was, and decided he wasn't being literal. I think it's a football analogy or something... But I took it to mean that I was looking at the details, and not the big picture. There's an analogy about 'not being able to see the forest from the trees' and I try to think about that when I get confused. I just step back ten yards and look at the forest (not literally).

I find socialising really draining, I am still waiting for a diagnostic assesment so its undecided if I do have AS. I think occasionally I am a good mixer, and then at other times I'm socially clumsy and on the wrong wave length. If someone met me once they may even come away with the view that I seemed affable, warm and mildly amusing, but if they wished for anything more than a fleeting acquiantance they would be left wanting. My biggest problem is forging and maintaining friendship, I find it hellish, stressful, time consuming and confusing. Behind the amiable facade is someone aloof and out of step with others. But the mask I have perfected through years of watching others is fairly convincing, but its transient.

I mostly agree with you.

But the key word here is logically. Making some us-vs.-them generalizations here, we Aspies had to deduce the rules of society using logic that most NT people just understood via intuition.

And who said knowing the rules meant being able to apply them successfully? As in on-the-spot to any social situation?

So, really, we are at a social disadvantage. But not, in no way, ret*d.

(by the way, seeing you mentioned her, have you done any reading on Temple Grandin? Although classically autistic, her story's quite interesting. And looking at her socialization inabilities, you can say people with AS are quite advanced socially...)

I feel the same way, Fresco. I have an appointment this Friday and I'm hoping I get a diagnosis, then.

Aleclair, I did go to Borders today and skim through her book, 'thinking in pictures'. It seems really interesting, but I couldn't force myself to sit down and read. I was in an odd mood and distracted by other people walking around. I like how you said we are at a social disadvantage. I think that's a nice way of putting it. Not necessarily ret*d, not necessarily gifted.

i hate it when there's too many people in barnes and noble(bookstore), too. i feel like they're invading my space and i can't go on with what i'm reading. i like barnes and noble because it's never really crowded and people don't tend to yell there.

About socialization... it is something that I have studied like a science. I don't automatically understand other people and why they do the things that they do automatically like most NTs do. I don't have that human intuition, especially when it comes to people. My knowledge of people and social skills is all learned, whether formally and being told "you cannot do this because it is socially unacceptable" or infomally, though study of people.

However, logic and rationality do not always apply to people. People are apt to react unpredictably. If person "A" reacts a certain way to stimulus "x", then this does not necessarily mean that person "B" will react in the same way. People are not mathematical equations. If they were, I am sure that aspies would be excellent at navigating socialization.

This is not the case because people react differently. Human intuition would serve better than a scientific study of people...

When I see Person A react to Stimulus X I try to get a general grasp on why they reacted in Way Alpha. And usually when person B reacts to stimulus X it's not in Way Alpha, it's in Way Beta.

But even if both A & B reacted in Way Alpha to Stimulus X, it's most likely for a different reason.

So, yes, it's all nuanced and it's not clear cut like math. I agree. But you can still generalize to a point, and allow for exceptions. I think it's the 'allowing of exceptions' that is human intuition.

I think to a major extent that this is how NT's often interact and associate with one another. At least on an aquaintance level. Putting on your 'game face' is what they do when in a social arena. Those who do 'bond' and forge friendships are just put through a more vigorous challenge to maintain the o so precious is life friendship. i've had problems maintaining good relationships for this reason. the whole keep up appearances and with the joneses thing is really true, but the levels to which it takes on is too complicated to try and discern w/out giving myself a headache or losing sleep. the seeming world of logic is sort of lost in the myriad or emotions. often when placed in a social sphere, many people know one another or get to know one another through work etc. then there are bonds formed, inside jokes, etc etc. the most crippling thing about being socially inept (AS) is that it is difficult to know what part is expected of you to be played.

You should also check out Oliver Sacks' An Anthropologist on Mars - which contains a great essay on Grandin that is more scientific in nature. I read the entire book over the summer, and it's worth your taking a peek. It's obvious that Sacks is scientifically looking at his patients, but he does a good job balancing the scientific, the philosophical, and the emotional.

One of my challenges, to add to the ongoing discussion, is as well understanding what is expected of me... what do I do, what do I not do, what do I say, what do I not say? Of course, in a perfect world, we could be logical and say, "do what you want" - but as earlier pointed out, the world is NOT LOGICAL.

I've always done what I wanted, and people take me for eccentric and witty and people tell me, '[I'm] a really good person who goes against the flow and doesn't participate in all the fads that people get caught up in". But really I just see people doing things and I wonder why, so I do the opposite to get a reaction. It's quite fun. And this way it looks like I'm being weird on purpose.

Edit: Oh, and I have heard of this Oliver guy. I'll have to look him up next time I'm at Borders and am actually able to concentrate.