Looking for new friends in adulthood-Out of ideas

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Hello. I'm a 37 year old male and have found myself very in need of friendship. I've had friends in the past, and am currently married, so my situation isn't as dire as some on here, but I'm really lonely nonetheless. Let me give you guys a little background (thank you ahead of time for even skimming through, it's long, sorry):

Growing up, I never had many friends. But I was always the type of person who had ONE really close friend for as long as I can remember. That one person changed periodically, but was always very close to me like a brother. So much so that losing or distancing from said person sends me into severe separation anxiety. I suspect this is some psychological remnant of my father leaving our family when I was only about 8, and basically never seeing him again. But regardless of why, I'm addicted to having a close male friend with whom I hang out with constantly.

Now my most recent close friend, with whom I was (and am mostly still) friends for 15-16 years. We've had a ton of good times, saw each other through many life crises, and always stuck by one another. His family is more my family to me than my own is. However this friend just recently moved out of state, and has two kids. I really hate kids. Like alot. So safe to say this friendship is basically phone/internet from now on, which, to me is not a friendship at all really. If we can't hang out, then it's kind of useless being your friend for the most part is my attitude.

Now, as I've said I am happily married, but the fact remains that I've been severely depressed since my friend had his first kid (the second isnt really his). Now I need a new friend, or a few. But I have no idea where to find them.

I, not unlike most people on here I'm sure, have a VERY hard time relating to people. The biggest problem with that is I simply can't be around people I can't relate to for very long. I've only recently even been able to tolerate their existence. I inevitably either bore or offend just about everyone who isn't like me.

I used to not have that big of a problem making friends in my early 20s. I always had very common interests that allowed me to find relatable people. I have always been into following sports, like video games, drugs and alcohol and (without getting into genre specifics) metal music. I have a sense of humor that can be amusing to those that get it and aren't offended, and was reasonably attractive, so people tended to gravitate toward me, especially in the circles of people I'd hang out with.

But now, fast forward 15-20 years and I'm lost. I'm still almost exactly the same person I was in my early 20s, except everyone else close to my age is so different. This is to be expected as "maturity" takes hold to even the late bloomers by now, but it leaves me in a tough position. So do so many other factors that seem to point to the answer- no new friends. Observe:

I can't relate to most peers because they are all wrapped up in things I don't care about. Not knocking it, but it is what it is.

I can't relate to younger people because I'm still sort of stuck in the late 90s/early 00s, and am very out of touch with the modern world in so many ways. My social views in particular. And I hate gadgets, most technology and social media (though it was pointed out THIS is social media, which almost made me quit)

I can't relate to most college educated people because of their attitudes. I don't know how to articulate it any better, and I don't hold that against anyone per se, but I've found through experience that I don't get along very well with those types, though I'd be happy to challenge that one. I also find that while my raw intellect is probably about as good as most, since I'm not at all well read (I've read fewer than a dozen books my entire life) and don't get into "nerdy" things (no offense intended) I have little to talk to them about.

However, it's hard for me to relate to non-educated people because I'm an overall pretty intelligent, articulate person. I can find things to talk about but it's usually on a level that is uninteresting to me and bores me quickly. I get quite deep and analytical about things, and most uneducated people are that way because they are simply dumb. Not all, but most. So I tend to repel them after a short time because of the depth to which I go with my conversations.

While I have very "vanilla" interests, I take things to extremes. I love sports, and fantasy sports, but am really into statistical analyses, and get into things like understanding front office work and some of the business side of things. Most sports fans can't stay in a conversation with me for that long.

I am really into the style of music I listen to, but don't play any instruments and am pretty ignorant on knowing music on a technical level. But the type of music I like generally only has appeal to people who actually play it due to it's very technical nature. So there's very little common ground to be found there. I love this stuff but couldn't really discuss it with the vast majority of others that do (and there are very few on top of that fact)

I like video games, but hate playing online. Couch co-op is awesome, but somehow online it just loses something for me. Though I haven't tried this too much, mainly because I don't know anyone to play with and tend to play mostly single-player games as a result.

I love smoking pot and drinking, however live in a state where obtaining pot is extremely difficult. Moreso when you don't have friends.

I've even started to lose interest in some of these things due to the fact that I don't have anyone to really discuss or share them with.

So, is anyone else in a similar spot?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I may be able to meet real-life friends? Online ones would be ok, but I really most want people/a person to hang out with.

Am I just screwed? Someone please relate...

(thanks again for even reading my long winded problem. Tried to make it readable)

Hello. I'm a 37 year old male and have found myself very in need of friendship. I've had friends in the past, and am currently married, so my situation isn't as dire as some on here, but I'm really lonely nonetheless. Let me give you guys a little background (thank you ahead of time for even skimming through, it's long, sorry):

"Growing up, I never had many friends. But I was always the type of person who had ONE really close friend for as long as I can remember. That one person changed periodically, but was always very close to me like a brother. So much so that losing or distancing from said person sends me into severe separation anxiety. I suspect this is some psychological remnant of my father leaving our family when I was only about 8, and basically never seeing him again. But regardless of why, I'm addicted to having a close male friend with whom I hang out with constantly.
"

I usually have a few close-friends. One or two male friends that I hung out with. Luckily I've managed to remain friends with 3, my best friend and two other good friends, today. My father was also separated from my mother but I never felt I was missing something in my life that had to be replaced - because he was never truly in my life to begin with. Lol, kinda sad.

"Now my most recent close friend, with whom I was (and am mostly still) friends for 15-16 years. We've had a ton of good times, saw each other through many life crises, and always stuck by one another. His family is more my family to me than my own is. However this friend just recently moved out of state, and has two kids. I really hate kids. Like alot. So safe to say this friendship is basically phone/internet from now on, which, to me is not a friendship at all really. If we can't hang out, then it's kind of useless being your friend for the most part is my attitude."

I partially agree with your attitude. I dislike, nay, HATE the idea of online friendships or relationships almost completely, and it feels very unnatural and artificial to me.

However, I do use the internet to maintain contact with current friends, and don't believe it's useless if you can't hang out with them - only if you met them online, not if you're maintaining contact online.

I still feel extremely lonely and miserable, having no friends to 'hang-out' with as a recent high school graduate. These 3 guys WERE those friends but I live away from them for now. We still visit/meet-up sporadically.

"Now, as I've said I am happily married, but the fact remains that I've been severely depressed since my friend had his first kid (the second isnt really his). Now I need a new friend, or a few. But I have no idea where to find them."

Know that feeling. Even when in a relationship a woman is not enough to fill that void that a male best friend fulfills. I require both + maybe 1 or 2 extra good friends for a satisfied social life.

"I, not unlike most people on here I'm sure, have a VERY hard time relating to people. The biggest problem with that is I simply can't be around people I can't relate to for very long. I've only recently even been able to tolerate their existence. I inevitably either bore or offend just about everyone who isn't like me."

I tolerate all kinds of people and can be acquainted with a variety of kinds, but yes I secretly dislike/can't stand most qualities of other people. It's a bit hard to describe. It's like I could hang out with a group of people but not want to go further than that. As a hypothetical analogy.

"I used to not have that big of a problem making friends in my early 20s. I always had very common interests that allowed me to find relatable people. I have always been into following sports, like video games, drugs and alcohol and (without getting into genre specifics) metal music. I have a sense of humor that can be amusing to those that get it and aren't offended, and was reasonably attractive, so people tended to gravitate toward me, especially in the circles of people I'd hang out with."

At school, while not the most popular, visible guy, I was well-liked for my uniqueness, eccentricity but also confidence and charisma. People gravitated towards me and I was well-liked, even by younger students from younger grades I'd never speak to. I had something of a cult following. My interests, however, are/were always obscure/unique aside from a few interests.

"But now, fast forward 15-20 years and I'm lost. I'm still almost exactly the same person I was in my early 20s, except everyone else close to my age is so different. This is to be expected as "maturity" takes hold to even the late bloomers by now, but it leaves me in a tough position."

I also feel slightly immature or delaying beginning my life. As a recent high school graduate, others my age are already joining the workforce, or beginning college studies, while I'm just sitting around at home. My familie's moving within 6 months so I can't get stuck in a job in the town I'm in now or start studying yet and I'm undecided about my future anyway for now.

"So do so many other factors that seem to point to the answer- no new friends. Observe:

I can't relate to most peers because they are all wrapped up in things I don't care about. Not knocking it, but it is what it is."

- Same here. Most people waste their time with trivial matters like celebrities (OH DAVID BOWIE!! :'( ), and just general pop culture.

I think it's natural for most of us aspies to dislie or be unskilled at small talk. I personally prefer deep, interesting and unique conversation, like philosophy or human psychology.

"I can't relate to younger people because I'm still sort of stuck in the late 90s/early 00s, and am very out of touch with the modern world in so many ways. My social views in particular. And I hate gadgets, most technology and social media (though it was pointed out THIS is social media, which almost made me quit)"

I don't have 'instagram' or 'snapchat' or all these other stupid programs other teens my age have. My only social media is this and facebook. I'm also not that teen stuck on their phone and glued to it so it makes social situations hard (if I'm not interested in conversation I can't just go on my phone to occupy my time and prevent boredom). My social views though are modern, maybe even post-modern.

"I can't relate to most college educated people because of their attitudes. I don't know how to articulate it any better, and I don't hold that against anyone per se, but I've found through experience that I don't get along very well with those types, though I'd be happy to challenge that one. I also find that while my raw intellect is probably about as good as most, since I'm not at all well read (I've read fewer than a dozen books my entire life) and don't get into "nerdy" things (no offense intended) I have little to talk to them about."

I'm also interestingly enough not really much of a nerd/geek at all. A lot of people my age like anime, superheroes, comic books, technology/gadets, gaming, books, tv shows/movies, science, etc.

I don't watch tv or movies, I rarely play video games and even then not the trendy kinds, I listen to electronic music (not the popular kind either, but the more underground stuff), I rarely read ever, except for philosophy books.

All I do in my free-time is sports/workout, making music/listening, reading the tiny number of obscure books I do, writing, or playing video games, tea/meditation.

My best friend is the opposite. A very trendy young person who likes the latest video games, anime, movies, etc.

"However, it's hard for me to relate to non-educated people because I'm an overall pretty intelligent, articulate person. I can find things to talk about but it's usually on a level that is uninteresting to me and bores me quickly. I get quite deep and analytical about things, and most uneducated people are that way because they are simply dumb. Not all, but most. So I tend to repel them after a short time because of the depth to which I go with my conversations."

See above, I've already said how I relate. Verbatim to what you've said.

"While I have very "vanilla" interests, I take things to extremes. I love sports, and fantasy sports, but am really into statistical analyses, and get into things like understanding front office work and some of the business side of things. Most sports fans can't stay in a conversation with me for that long."

Again, I can relate. Vanilla interests, but not in a 'vanilla' way. I am a musician, but most in my town are pop-indie rock musicians, not Trance/experimental electronic. I don't play online gaming at all, and it is more often than not common for most gamers to.

"I am really into the style of music I listen to, but don't play any instruments and am pretty ignorant on knowing music on a technical level. But the type of music I like generally only has appeal to people who actually play it due to it's very technical nature. So there's very little common ground to be found there. I love this stuff but couldn't really discuss it with the vast majority of others that do (and there are very few on top of that fact)"

My genre is too uncommon for me to find others to discuss the technical aspects, but if I do find others who make the same genre I can easily share my technical know-how. Rock bands and electronic acts are apples and oranges of the same basket, unfortunately. Most musicians do incoroporate digital technology nowadays, but still use it differently/different methods than electronic acts.

"I like video games, but hate playing online. Couch co-op is awesome, but somehow online it just loses something for me. Though I haven't tried this too much, mainly because I don't know anyone to play with and tend to play mostly single-player games as a result."

Story of my life.

"I love smoking pot and drinking, however live in a state where obtaining pot is extremely difficult. Moreso when you don't have friends."

I'm interested in trying marijuana. I do drink occasionally. It relaxes me...

"I've even started to lose interest in some of these things due to the fact that I don't have anyone to really discuss or share them with."

What things? Even your common interests that could help you build a social connection with conformists? Yep, same here.

"So, is anyone else in a similar spot?"

Yes

"Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I may be able to meet real-life friends? Online ones would be ok, but I really most want people/a person to hang out with."

Same here.

"Am I just screwed? Someone please relate..."

How I feel when depressed/hopeless - a lost cause. I've asked myself the same question 'Am I just screwed?'

(thanks again for even reading my long winded problem. Tried to make it readable)

Well...all I can say sir is what I've been doing is when I was in high school I tried my best all year to meet those type of friends, to hang out with, but in the end have kept none of them and a few turned around and betrayed me after high school, not maintaing contact even after i reached out to them.

I've used online dating to try and expand my options for a new relationship though online dating is mostly useless and doesn't really make much of a difference.

One stupid, tiring suggestion of advice I often here is to 'find groups in your area of people with common interests'.

Well I live in a small, boring city with almost nothing to do for anyone. The majority of things appeal to either children no older than 5, 35-50 year old housewives, or elderly people.

The highest demographic here is the elderly, and this shows - my mum calls it a 'retirement village' because of just how full of old people it is.

No offense to them, but it is them that influence what this town is like. It's very old fashioned and conservative, in a bad way (e.g. racism, etc. it's a small city with the small country town 'redneck' mindset). It's ultra-religious, there are more CHURCHES THAN SCHOOLS and it feels like a church on every corner. No laidback churches either but the stricter-than-strict catholics.

If you're agnostic or atheist, you won't fit in.

Anyway, there's no sort of things to do for the youth, so we have a pretty high crime rate, plenty of gangs made up especially of young people, etc.

But the news underreports crimes to keep the town's 'family-friendly' image.

There's absolutely nothing for my hobbies/interests.

The only place I could go for any reason that would get me out of the house is the SHOPPING CENTRE/MALL, and even then I have to think of whatever pathetic excuse I can. I went shopping for video games even when I don't want any just to leave the house. I'm happy with my purchase, but I can't do that all the time and waste my money on games.

Like I said in my current situation I do not study and have no job. I'm getting into possible short-term volunteer work though. Either way this is a boring little town with no opportunity for anyone and I'm happy my families moving to the big city soon.

I'm sorry I made this long post myself.

Anyway I'm sorry if I haven't helped too much, but you're definitely not alone sir and the only real difference/advantage I have is being young, but youth doesn't last forever.

So if you have any hobbies/interests that could get you into a club/group, go for it. But, from the sounds of it, you probably wouldn't like most people at the club/group anyway.

I know I usually don't either. The people who share my common interests (music, writing) are still boring, mainstream hacks who bore the f*ck out of me.

We just aren't made for this world. We're on the WrongPlanet. Lol.

If only you were ten years younger, I was ten years older, and we both lived in the same city. We'd probably be best friends...

Hey man I just want to genuinely say thank you for taking the time to even respond to that long winded ramble. Point by point no less. Thank you.

You know some of your school experiences sound alot like mine. I was totally a weird/eccentric guy (straight up crazy really), who was kinda attractive to a certain type of chick (metal chicks). I'd always be the center of attention in any social group because I sort had an alter-ego that would just click over into "performance" mode. I'd be the most loud, vulgar, obnoxious person to people in public, make a total ass of myself, make everyone uncomfortable (long before Tom Green or any similar act became famous for the same sort of shit- I was ahead of my time...) and everyone seemed to love it. No guys wanted to f**k with me, girls wanted to f**k me, it was great.

The feeling you mentioned about being in social situations and secretly hating everyone. I get that. I was the same way. Maybe up to about 24 or 25 I was still relatively socially active, especially in comparison to how I now am. I look back and have no idea how I tolerated some of those people. s**t, my ex-girlfriend of 5 of those years was one. Had NO idea what I was thinking. Well, some idea, but she was sorta busted, so yeah, no idea... Point here is, that tolerance, for me at least, fades over time.

A big part of my dilemma that kind of complicates things is the fact that I was trying to become a very strict, biblical Christian for about 5 years on and off. As with most new interests that sweep my mind off it's feet, this was no different. I was hyper-Biblical about everything. I got rid of every piece of music I owned and didn't listen to music at all, not even a note, for about 5 years. Didn't drink, didn't smoke, almost got rid of my TV and every game I owned too but couldn't let those go. I'm past that stage now, but that gap kind of left me with the feeling like I imagine someone would feel after going to jail for a number of years. You get out and the experience changed you for the worse, and now people and the world are 5 years advanced. It really, really f****d with my identity. Still sort of does. So that complicates matters and kind of explains why I got thrust into the shadows. Also during that time I became an avid "conspiracy theorist" (quotes because I still believe most of it, just don't allow it to rule my life). This further served to feed my disgust for the world and imprisoned me in many ways.

Yeah I'm probably screwed. I mostly accept it. But it feels to good to know someone else gets it, and you're way younger so maybe my age perceptions are very wrong. Which is a good thing. I am very, very lucky to have a wife whom I love and an awesome parrot who's my friend. I try to focus on what I have and not what I don't these days.

Yeah this is "Wrong Planet" however from my experiences, I've chosen the wrong alternate planet, because I don't relate to people on this one any better than on the original one. I just haven't found anyone around here very much like me. I identify with certain issues very well, but personality/interest stuff I do not seem to. It doesn't help that there seems to be prejudicial treatment on here form some based on the fact I've never sought a formal diagnosis. Don't see the point unless I'm getting govt benefits. It's just another label. But some people don't seem to think your struggles are significant unless you live at home and can't leave the house, or your points aren't pertinent if you cannot articulate them in verbose ways and site a billion books.

f**k it all. Thanks again bro. Appreciated.

Making friends as an adult is really difficult and I empathize with your feelings.

Some things that may be making it harder than it has to be did jump out at me though. Your parameters are self-defeatingly narrow. There is no one exactly like you, and thinking you "can't" relate to a person unless they fit a certain profile that you share may be keeping you from seeing and enjoying other aspects of their personality.

You dismiss college-educated people for their "attitudes", you aren't well-read, have nothing to discuss with "nerds", but are too smart to be friends with "dumb" uneducated people. You're into a music genre but don't play an instrument, etc.

Others your age who have changed and matured may have done so by not clinging so tightly to this rigid way of thinking. You could read a book, take a class, learn an instrument, engage in an activity that isn't your first choice, or talk to and learn from someone who isn't just like you. You may learn that someone can be college-educated without having the attitude you dislike, that a high school dropout may be a genius, that nerds can talk about something besides anime, and that a deep interest in sports statistics is not necessary for an enjoyable friendship.

Your hatred of children is similarly closed-minded. Feeling uncomfortable around children, disliking particular children, disliking spending time with parents with kids with them, or wishing to avoid children are all reasonable, but "hating" people of a particular age "a lot" simply for not being older indicates an intractable irrationality and eagerness to assume all people in a certain group are a certain way so you can quickly dismiss them from consideration. I'm not saying to go out and try to befriend a kid--in fact, definitely do not do this--but take a closer look at this unwarranted hatred you harbor for groups of people you know basically nothing about.

Like me, I think the OP may be something of a perfectionist.

I'm certainly one who only wants to befriend the very best of the best for me.

Throughout early high school I did try to put myself out there and expand my social reach to befriend all different kinds of diverse people and personalities.

Aside from being used and stepped-on for my blind loyalty and/or ignored, most people I did meet I found I just didn't genuinely get along with, and they found my inappropriate behavior difficult to tolerate.

I matured in the 12th grade and was far more confident, charismatic and interesting and definitely made far more rewarding friends, but still found most people trivial, uninteresting and boring.

It might seem wrong and narrow-minded for me to believe other people were boring and uninteresting while I was not, but judging from the comments I got from others in high school, I really was more unique/eccentric/alternative than the rest.

Of course, there were always a minority of interesting, unique people and these were the types I usually actually liked and got along with great, though childhood, teenage years or adulthood, these people will always be rare.

They become especially more rare once you reach adulthood as everyone 'matures up' and the artsy nerdy/geeky hipster kids who think "I'm going to be a non-conformist to societies traditional standards blah blah blah' grow up and become the 9-5 hardworking adults they wanted to avoid being.

I honestly think most high school seniors believe they're unique, that they're going to live life how 'they' want to and not how 'society' dictates it for them, but for most of them, their path in life is set.

Only a minority have the dedication, motivation and ambition to purposefully set-out to live an alternative lifestyle.

This is what I hope to be. I have big, ambitious dreams, like most 17 year olds, but actually want to set out to live them.

I do want to 'grow up' and live that conformist lifestyle, but want to delay it for as long as possible and really live throughout my 20's.

Anyway, back to my point: I'm sure the OP has actually TRIED other people, and the various different personalities and characteristics that come with them all.

But the problem is due to most socities and cultures, it's citizens generally all share traits and patterns that can be observed in most people.

If these traits are unattractive to you regarding making friends, it only makes things harder.

Is it narrow-minded? Yes. Is it being selective about who you actually befriend so you don't end up constantly having to deal with people you just don't like just to find the people you would? Yes.

Like I said I've pursued dozens to hundreds of possible friends through trial and error throughout high school and only really have 3 good friends now.

This has taught me the following: Just don't bother to try and befriend most people if early on there's only a few things about them you don't like, it's very likely they posess far more other qualities you would also dislike. This always turns out to be true for me. My standards are strict so that I end up befriending only people I do like as a person and know I could be a friend to.

It's for their own sake, not mine.

Though his dislike of children is definitely un-warranted and stand-out to me. I find children extremely frustrating and difficult to take care of without being mean, but can still play and have fun with them and don't dislike them at all - when they're decently behaved.

Considering friendship with someone who does not share all of your interests is not a matter of lowering yourself to be friends with someone inferior. You're probably not the greatest person the world has ever known and others should be measured by how far short they fall of this ideal.



I don't know if you'd have access to real diversity if you are already pulling from the lot consisting of people your own age that live in the same geographical area. Your experiences are more limited than you think.



If you want tolerance, but also want people exactly like yourself and you yourself are intolerant, you can see how this conundrum has no practical solution.



There's nothing unique about thinking you're the specialest snowflake of them all. This is pretty normal for adolescents.

You can't be "more unique" than others. Everyone is unique, just like you are.



Sure, but there is no need to take on some vast portion of the populace as your personal friends. Finding someone you feel a strong connection to is generally pretty rare for everyone.



No one's path in life is "set." We all have choices to make, whether we see them as such or not.
There is no value in striving to be "unique" or "alternative" for its own sake. Difference is just different, not inherently better or worse. Do what you want and be yourself, not some purposely-crafted "different" person who isn't like "everyone else."


Good God, why? Isn't this just what you were complaining about others falling into? And here it's what you intend all along?
You plan to turn 30 and be like "Welp, 'really living' was cool and all, but now it's time to buckle down and conform. Give me one spouse, one mortgage, one drone job and 1.8 children, so I can live out the rest of my days as the cog I was always destined to become"?



I'm not saying your experiences to date have no value, but like the rest of us, you've only been alive for a few moments in the general scheme of things. As a 17-year-old, your "years of experience" consist mostly of being a child and high school student. Think about what your 5-year-old self might have said on this topic and what you have learned since then. That's the kind of stuff you will be continuing to add if you don't cling to your conclusion that you've got it all figured out now. One day you may be 25 and perhaps recognize how much more there was to know. Hopefully you will continue to learn more and more and you will meet different kinds of people and realize that a lot of the theories you have today are not accurate as they stand.

"Considering friendship with someone who does not share all of your interests is not a matter of lowering yourself to be friends with someone inferior. You're probably not the greatest person the world has ever known and others should be measured by how far short they fall of this ideal."

Of course not. And I don't mean sharing interests, simply my ability to connect with another person regarding friendship, something I think a lot of aspies have trouble with.

"I don't know if you'd have access to real diversity if you are already pulling from the lot consisting of people your own age that live in the same geographical area. Your experiences are more limited than you think."

Fair enough. High school is a small pond compared to the real-world. But I can admit attending 3 different high schools and essentially trying to make friends in 90% of the ponds of each came up with nothing.

Making connections as an adult might be rare and hard but why would it be hard in high school, when everyone's essentally desperate for acceptance, friends and relationships?

"If you want tolerance, but also want people exactly like yourself and you yourself are intolerant, you can see how this conundrum has no practical solution."

My friends were always as different as night and day. I simply want someone who doesn't babble on about David Bowie or other celebrities, people who don't spend all their spare time consuming all this pop culture I don't really like but have to pretend to, people who don't own 50 social medias.

I'd prefer someone who likes to talk about philosophy and psychology, or science, mathematics, something a bit more interesting.

Maybe I need more aspie friends. My best friend is another aspie perfectly capable with talking about this stuff, along with 'normal' small talk stuff like video games.

I tried telling a friend about Existentialism and she said she doesn't know much about it but had 'a really weird simpsons dream. '

That's what 90% of aspie teens deal with, I think. People we can't talk to about 'bigger talk'.

There's all kinds of trends and behaviors that exist across generations and the most popular things in my generation I don't particularly care about though then again you could say every adult here also wasn't interested in what N.T kids and teens and young people were when they were young too.

"There's nothing unique about thinking you're the specialest snowflake of them all. This is pretty normal for adolescents.

You can't be "more unique" than others. Everyone is unique, just like you are."

I agree. Most teens all think they're unique, etc.

I think I shouldn't have said it the way I did.

I meant to say it in a way the most particular comments I got on my personality were uniqueness, eccentricity, etc. but then again perhaps everyone else did.

Is there any easier way to say 'I stood out very easily for my eccentricity' wuthout sound like you have that 'I'm a special little snowflake' mindset?

I'm not sure as I tried (and failed) to avoid coming across that way.

"Sure, but there is no need to take on some vast portion of the populace as your personal friends. Finding someone you feel a strong connection to is generally pretty rare for everyone."

True.

"No one's path in life is "set." We all have choices to make, whether we see them as such or not.
There is no value in striving to be "unique" or "alternative" for its own sake. Difference is just different, not inherently better or worse. Do what you want and be yourself, not some purposely-crafted "different" person who isn't like "everyone else.""

- Agreed. I didn't meant to criticize the 'conformist' lifestyle and completely agree with it. That is why I want t eventually 'settle down'. And yes we're all different and live our lives differently.

When I say set, I mean it's all laid out for us early on. We can choose to live how we want to, of course, but I'm just saying there's a consistent little plan in front of you.

Graduate your first 12 years of schooling, choose the option of higher study or simply start working what job you want to, if you choose the study route and earn a degree, you find work in your particular field, work on building a support network and relationships, settle down, and then train and support the next generation (your kids).

You could choose to instead be self-employed, or a farmer, or whatever.

But it seems pretty 'set-out' in a way. It's my way of saying 'There is an idea for possible routes your future could take in existence for you to choose.'

"Good God, why? Isn't this just what you were complaining about others falling into? And here it's what you intend all along?
You plan to turn 30 and be like "Welp, 'really living' was cool and all, but now it's time to buckle down and conform. Give me one spouse, one mortgage, one drone job and 1.8 children, so I can live out the rest of my days as the cog I was always destined to become"?"

Moreso I think it's inevitable, or at least find you can't break away from it all forever without having a consistently healthy lifestyle.

By this I mean to say, let's say I travel around in a van for the rest of my life. Without work, you can't get money. If you eventually have kids you can't support them. Maintaining contact with family/friends becomes hard, etc.

This is just one example but I don't find alternative ways of living sustainable. Fun in the short-term, yes, but eventually it's far more of an economically viable option to settle down once you've had your fun. It's like going back to work once your party weekend is over.

"I'm not saying your experiences to date have no value, but like the rest of us, you've only been alive for a few moments in the general scheme of things. As a 17-year-old, your "years of experience" consist mostly of being a child and high school student. Think about what your 5-year-old self might have said on this topic and what you have learned since then. That's the kind of stuff you will be continuing to add if you don't cling to your conclusion that you've got it all figured out now. One day you may be 25 and perhaps recognize how much more there was to know. Hopefully you will continue to learn more and more and you will meet different kinds of people and realize that a lot of the theories you have today are not accurate as they stand."

Completely agree I have plenty and learn and a lot of what I'm saying now isn't set in stone to remain this way. I'd at least like to express how I feel about the world now, though, and I'm wondering how much the OP relates to what i've been saying.

@Mobers:

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate the challenge to my way of seeing this in a helpful manner. I’m currently evaluating many of these things about myself and am (at times) begrudgingly accepting that my way of seeing things isn’t always the “right”. This signifies significant personal growth for me. Believe me it’s not natural for me…

Self-Defeating. There’s a term that’s come up a lot in my life. You’re not the first person to point this out to me, either in those words or at least the concept. I’ve always been my own worst enemy and I have no idea why. These “parameters” aren’t necessarily by my own choosing. It’s just based on my personal experiences, as well as my personal preferences.

I really do not dismiss anyone. These dilemmas are all tendencies I’ve observed. “playing the percentages” if you will. I realize the tone of my original post maybe was a little different then I intended. I don’t dismiss anyone. Most of these thoughts stay internal. But there are things about people I simply don’t like. And I have no ability to carry on a conversation about things I don’t care about. I just don’t know how to act interested or what to respond with. When people bore me, I appear very bored (so Im told) to the point where people have called it rude. And that problem goes both ways. I’m sure I’d bore the hell out of most people (and have) due to my extremely narrow interests and utter inability to effectively tolerate things outside of them. A lot of what I stated about the things that hinder me are real problems most of the time. At least they feel like they are. Ever try to discuss math metal music with someone when you don’t really understand how time signatures work? Not easy. Ever try to talk to a typical college-educated person when you believe most of what science teaches, or at least how they explain it, is an intentional, malicious lie? Ever try talking to a typical, ESPN sports fan about Sabrmetrics or outside the box roster construction ideas? I’ve tried all of these things. They all lead to frustration. Which is partially what brings me to this place I’m in now.

“Others your age who have changed and matured may have done so by not clinging so tightly to this rigid way of thinking.”

Gotta say, you nailed it there, at least about me personally. Rigid thinking is something I’m only recently realizing I have a problem with. I'm working on it, but it's not easy for me to change. Change gives me anxiety really badly most of the time. However I do not buy into the typical concept of maturity. I don’t believe devoting yourself to a career or popping kids out are mature things. I believe they are imprisonment. Obviously most other people disagree. Which is another disconnect.

I guess it partially boils down to the fact that I have little interest in learning about people different from me. I’m fine with being closed-minded. I’ve often worn that as a badge of honor in the past. I just need to find similarly closed-minded people. I think “open-mindedness” is often a synonym for wishy-washy easily led and lacking identity. There is a true open-mindedness, which I can usually respect, and a whole lot of the contrived kind. I also have very little interest in trying to get people to like me. I just want to find a person or two who are “my kind” and accept me the way I am and I can speak to effortlessly and enjoy their company. But I do realize, and need to keep more readily in mind the fact that these people don’t always take the form I am expecting. However I have no contact with others, so it’s sort of moot until I figure that part out (how to find people to talk with, as in, the wheres and hows).

I do hate kids though. I stand by that shamelessly. I hate everything about them. Their little voices. Their erratic movements. Their constant noises. They smell. They are dirty. You can’t speak to them normally. I just don’t like kids. At all. Now theoretically, I could be friends with someone who has kids, if they could not expect me to be over the house with the kids running around. If someone could carry on conversations that aren’t about kids getting sick, or school, or what they eat and don’t eat, blah, blah, blah, then we could be friends. But I understand this is too much to ask of most parents, whom their identity becomes their children. That’s annoying to me. So I figure it's best to steer clear. Maybe I'm wrong there. I’m also extra bitter at children right now for ruining my only meaningful friendship, as my friend is not the type who can carve out time with so many demands, as he suffers with a real lack of executive functioning skills and severe depression his own self.

But you are right that I am probably too quick to assess, and I know already I rest too much on the “correctness” of my own perceptions.

I ask you, how do you find friendship then, if your common interests aren’t necessary as a foundational component? What do you talk about? What kinds of things do you enjoy about them, or about the experiences you have with them? (These are serious questions asked out of seeking comprehension, not rhetorical or sarcastic, just to be clear)

I have considered the taking a class thing. Just some bs for adults thing where maybe I can meet some people. I really don’t have interests in anything that I could actually go to school for though. Plus I work. I can’t have that much on my plate or I start to lose it. I can’t even clean my house, take care of my health, or manage my finances properly. No way I could put school in that mix.

Sorry for the long response, but I found your post helpful and wanted to do the respect of responding properly. You’ve validated things that others have told me but I’ve resisted. I just need to figure out how to make this all work for me.
Thanks again.

@ Outrider

Don’t consider myself a perfectionist per se, but I have realized I expect a lot out of people in a friendship. Nothing I’m not willing to put out in return, but still too much for the average person, who seems to cobble together a social life by having an acquaintance for every occasion. One for drinking, one for going out, one to watch sports with. Too many people. I require multi-use friends. Or else it’s kinda useless to me.

I will give you the following disclaimer: I don't say the following to put you down.. I don't intend to dismiss your very valid life experiences or perspectives. I don't think I know better because I'm older. But I'm sharing from my personal experiences...

I would highly discourage you from making too many life conclusions based on high school. I know, up until now, that’s been your life. Nothing wrong with that. But please trust me when I tell you, a lot of the things you think you know now, you will come to find you didn’t know anything about at all. Or were dead wrong on. Save yourself some trouble and try to realize that now, if that’s at all possible. You’ll see. Believe me, you will.
I do think, at least as far as my maladjusted mind can tell, that you appear to have very good perspectives/observations on people. Try to build on that as a starting point of a journey, not assume you’ve found the answers. The older you get the more you realize some things don’t have an answer. Frustrating, but true.

One final point to you directly, and it is along the lines of what Mobers was saying, trying to be different is conformity. Counter cultures are just different buckets for the sheeple. Define yourself by your own standards. Don’t be afraid to go along with the crowd if it’s what feels right to you or it’s what you like. Boldly being yourself, truly unafraid of any classifications is what really being an individual is all about. The truest sense of individuality should be effortless.

Feel free to PM me if you ever want to have a chat. Doubt too many people will respond to my long winded opener, but I'd like to keep the thread more legible. Prolly too late for that though

"@Mobers:

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate the challenge to my way of seeing this in a helpful manner. I’m currently evaluating many of these things about myself and am (at times) begrudgingly accepting that my way of seeing things isn’t always the “right”. This signifies significant personal growth for me. Believe me it’s not natural for me…"

I too always re-evaluate my life.

"Self-Defeating. There’s a term that’s come up a lot in my life. You’re not the first person to point this out to me, either in those words or at least the concept. I’ve always been my own worst enemy and I have no idea why. These “parameters” aren’t necessarily by my own choosing. It’s just based on my personal experiences, as well as my personal preferences."

As are mine. Though I have the ambition and dedication in life to try and overcome all my personal limits and have seen some success happily.

"I really do not dismiss anyone. These dilemmas are all tendencies I’ve observed. “playing the percentages” if you will. I realize the tone of my original post maybe was a little different then I intended. I don’t dismiss anyone. Most of these thoughts stay internal."

Same here. I actually like most people. Most people are nice, in a way.

"But there are things about people I simply don’t like. And I have no ability to carry on a conversation about things I don’t care about. I just don’t know how to act interested or what to respond with."

Same here. We can't like things we just plain don't.

"When people bore me, I appear very bored (so Im told) to the point where people have called it rude. And that problem goes both ways. I’m sure I’d bore the hell out of most people (and have) due to my extremely narrow interests and utter inability to effectively tolerate things outside of them."

I hide boredom easily and put on a superficial charm. I also assume I can usually bore people just as easily. I don't go on and on about my special interests, but my desire for 'deep talk' compared to 'small talk' drives most people away, like that girl with the simpson's dream example.

"A lot of what I stated about the things that hinder me are real problems most of the time. At least they feel like they are. Ever try to discuss math metal music with someone when you don’t really understand how time signatures work? Not easy. Ever try to talk to a typical college-educated person when you believe most of what science teaches, or at least how they explain it, is an intentional, malicious lie? Ever try talking to a typical, ESPN sports fan about Sabrmetrics or outside the box roster construction ideas? I’ve tried all of these things. They all lead to frustration. Which is partially what brings me to this place I’m in now."

Can relate. I believe science is full of incomplete ideas, still in its infancy, etc. plenty of things are proven than unproven, etc.

Some people say 'The thing about science is, even if you don't believe it, it's true'. I hate that quote with a passion because it ignores the fact science is about finding answers, and not everything has been answered yet.

"However I do not buy into the typical concept of maturity. I don’t believe devoting yourself to a career or popping kids out are mature things. I believe they are imprisonment. Obviously most other people disagree. Which is another disconnect."

I don't see it as imprisonment in a sense, but do believe responsibilities obviously do prevent you from living a more, say, adventurous and fun lifestyle.

I would hate the idea of ever owning a house. As a person who wants to travel and see the world, owning a house is like the ultimate root. Unless you allow others to stay in your house by renting it out, it's something that sets you down in one place permanently.

"I guess it partially boils down to the fact that I have little interest in learning about people different from me. I’m fine with being closed-minded. I’ve often worn that as a badge of honor in the past. I just need to find similarly closed-minded people."

I try and learn about others, but find they're just as uninteresting to me as I suspected even when I barely knew them. If there is something I found unique and different from early on, once I get to know them better, they still usually have me hooked.

"I think “open-mindedness” is often a synonym for wishy-washy easily led and lacking identity. There is a true open-mindedness, which I can usually respect, and a whole lot of the contrived kind. I also have very little interest in trying to get people to like me. I just want to find a person or two who are “my kind” and accept me the way I am and I can speak to effortlessly and enjoy their company. But I do realize, and need to keep more readily in mind the fact that these people don’t always take the form I am expecting. However I have no contact with others, so it’s sort of moot until I figure that part out (how to find people to talk with, as in, the wheres and hows)."

Agreed except for the open-mindedness bit.

"But you are right that I am probably too quick to assess, and I know already I rest too much on the “correctness” of my own perceptions."

Has happened to me aplenty where I get to know someone who was more than meets the eye. Though it's too uncommon for me to stay motivated in being open-minded and diverse. I will try though.

"I ask you, how do you find friendship then, if your common interests aren’t necessary as a foundational component? What do you talk about? What kinds of things do you enjoy about them, or about the experiences you have with them? (These are serious questions asked out of seeking comprehension, not rhetorical or sarcastic, just to be clear)"

I learned to find satisfaction in friendships and relationships even if we had nothing in common and they didn't care for my interests and I didn't care for theirs.

I learned to appreciate their other attributes of their personality rather than their interests and lifestyle.

Their kindness, altruism, funnyness, confidence, friendliness, ambition, hardworking, dedication, etc.

Their character.

My friends in high school I didn't relate interest wise at all but still enjoyed their prescence, and they enjoyed mine.

It wasn't really about shared interests but just being friends with good people who care about you and you care about them.

Maybe if we both get over our closed-mindedness a bit and be friends with people who bore us and instead place emphasis on their good qualities instead, we'll find success.

I know I did find some.

"Sorry for the long response, but I found your post helpful and wanted to do the respect of responding properly. You’ve validated things that others have told me but I’ve resisted. I just need to figure out how to make this all work for me.
Thanks again."

I'd also like to thank Mobers for providing very good points.

Two people with very similar perspectives who can relate aren't going to help this debate find answers and think about our lives. Different opinions have got to contribute to the discussion.

Connecting with others can definitely be challenging. One thing that helps is to approach an interaction with the mindset that it is your goal to find points of connection, not to look for disqualifying features. Instead of trying to figure out whether the person is suitable to be your new BFF, just try to connect and leave it at that.


On the one hand, high school does give you access to a lot of people who have similar schedules and are at a similar stage of life, but on the other hand, these people are all kind of forced together and are typically very concerned with figuring out who they are and what kind of person they want to present themselves as. It is normal in this circumstance to be very concerned with what others think of you and to put up some sort of protective front, as you will have to be around these same people in close proximity for the near future. This creates an atmosphere of posturing and people feeling compelled to mask their real personalities and opinions. People are, as you say, "desperate for acceptance, friends, and relationships," but desperate people don't make the best friends.


If you're pretending, how can you be so sure they aren't? People often use celebrities, professional sports teams, the weather, etc. just to have some common conversational ground to get things started with each other. They are testing to see whether the other person is receptive to engagement with them or just trying to pass the time and feel like they are connecting over the banal topic. Don't assume they all have a genuine deep interest in David Bowie or whatever and that there is nothing else below the surface that could be interesting to you.


This is one problem with compulsory education. Things that are genuinely interesting are forcibly "taught" to unreceptive and unwilling students who would prefer to be asleep, socializing, being active, etc. so they unfortunately associate math, science, etc. with "stuff that I have to do to get grades" as opposed to an enjoyable thing to think, wonder, read, learn about, and discuss. Don't worry though, *some* people do recover from this and manage to regain some curiosity and interest in the real world after they are out of high school for a while. Try to make friends with some graduate students, most will have at least one area of interest that is not celebrity gossip, and don't forget that you can be friends with people who are not your own age.


It kind of sounds like she was trying to continue the conversation though. Did you ask her about the dream and try to tie it into existentialism? Did you keep your explanation brief and relatable, giving her a chance to talk about it too? Don't assume that because someone doesn't know much or anything about a topic that they wouldn't be interested and end up having something interesting to say about it if you make it a conversation instead of a lecture. Granted, many people don't want to have deep philosophical conversations or hear about anything they don't already know about, but this willful shallowness is not as common as you fear.


There are some things that it is common to be interested in for each generation, but the portion of the population that does not share a particular interest is never tiny. One thing that happens is that people don't feel comfortable saying that they aren't into what it seems "everyone else" is, since they fear that that will make them a social outcast and it's easier to just go along with something you aren't that excited about than risk becoming a pariah. This adds to the feelings of isolation of anyone who doesn't share the common interest, so more people cave and feign interest as well. Some people will step away from this fake persona when they realize how empty and unrewarding it is.


But we really ARE all unique. I do understand what you mean--that you don't come across as blending in and people notice that you are a weirdo (but in a good way) right away. Things are not as they seem, however. Many of those people you think are just like each other are weirdos in disguise, just trying to get through their days and not feel lonely. This is the peer pressure that influences people to do stuff they would never do on their own, looking to impress each other and gain social acceptance. It's good that you don't (or can't) play that game, but it sucks in a lot of people.


The plan is a lie. You can try to follow the plan, and things will happen that derail you. The plan does not have contingency options for every occurrence, and most of us will be forced off-plan at some point whether we like it or not, since the plan is a made-up fantasy.
You're the only you, so you must make your own plans and re-plan as needed. Your plan seems to be "I will fight conformity with everything I have and then I will succumb and life a routine life." This plan seems crazy to me and like you are ignoring a vast expanse of superior options, so I am curious as to why you've settled on it, but I also suspect you will adjust it as you go.


But there are infinite other routes, it isn't multiple choice.

Well it sure feels that way in Australia.

All 12 years of schooling it has been instilled into me.

Also, our legal system specifically is 'earning or learning' which means to say all people must be either earning from work or learning from the education system.

Fair system really. In theory.

I'm not too familiar with the system but some alternatives such as farming, self-employment or helping your family business but not having an official job, etc. may not fit the definition.

It seems all of last year, my senior year it was all about OP, OP, OP, university, university, university, work, work, work.

OP = my state's student ranking system. Also the selection ranking. Both used to determine your eligibility for university courses.

School messes with your head, with all this trivial filler and only some stuff being important/relevant to the 'real world'. I've got to try and remember it's all done, and dissect all the stuff that was relevant to cleanse my brain of the mindless, pointless fluff.

That girl, I think, was trying to change the subject to something still somewhat 'deep' or at least different than small talk. Or maybe even a sarcastic way of saying I'm boring, because dreams are also typically considered boring and the subject of philosophy usually bores other teens I try and talk to about it. I was not sure how to interpret it at the time and can't remember what I said back but I think I went along with it and tried to change the subject.

Anyway, I do sincerely and genuinely believe most people inside are capable of deep, unique and interesting conversation, though judging by those I actually talk to it seems they're rare, or it's at least very hard to get that side out of people.

The stereotype of drunk people starting to talk 'deep' and drug users becoming philosophical exemplifies this.

I do believe these typical and popular interest the people i talked to have actually IS their interests because they talk about these things on a regular basis - gossiping about other students, gossiping about celebrities, or talking about the latest video games, tv shows/movies.

It's to build a connection, yes, and I do understand the value in small talk. But I can also see most people usually aren't pretending and keep talking about these things so they must like them a lot.

Who fakes interest in the latest Star Wars movie for example to build a connection as it's something 'common'.

Pretty sure it's more like they actually ARE interested in the new movie and want to talk about it with other's.

I think it's not that people choose families topics over unfamiliar ones, it seems to me people are ONLY interested in familiar topics, at least significantly, and not really interested at all in unfamiliar ones.

Your suggestion is, oh, yes, people are interested in the unfamiliar, they just hide it. I don't see this...

I know I usually put on a superficial charm and fake interest in these things (and let's assume they might too, eh?) but the second I do bring up topics a little more 'deep talk' then small talk, most people get bored and lose interest extremely quickly.

There was only a few particular situations that stood out to me. My english classes whole room discussion on the modern Feminism movement, marijuana legalization, the current terrorist situation, morals, while we were all slacking with the teacher, the group I hang out with discussing WWII/Germany/etc.

And a few of the people I was friends with, about 3 or 4, were actually capable of joining in for my philosophical and observation discussion on life when I talked to them individually. We also talked art, history, and politics.

I don't see people observe the same passion in trivial topics than more 'deep' ones. Only a minority of people seem to take curiosity in the unknown, or the foreign, etc.

Is it just teenagers? We're only young and still developing, raging hormones and almost entirely devoid of rational or logical thought, so maybe it's only adulthood when small talk isn't because they're interested in those things but it's used as a social tool.

Thanks for your kind words!


Being self-defeating to a degree is pretty normal I think.
It isn't a conscious choice people make, but you can consciously make effort to change it. If your parameters are very narrow, it's to your advantage to widen them. Knowing that doesn't just magically make it happen of course, but it's a start.


So you think, but people pick up on the internal states of others based on non-verbal cues or even the absence of cues. If you are thinking negative thoughts about people and are not a very good actor and consciously trying to avoid this, many will notice.


This is very good, because this is in your power to change.
You don't have to start liking things you don't like, of course, nor should you, but perhaps you are allowing things that are not so important in and of themselves become "dealbreakers" and writing off people on the basis of one aspect when you could have appreciated something else about them. Let's say though that the thing you don't like about a particular person really is significant and important and you have correctly and wisely determined that they are not an appropriate potential friend. You still would benefit from being able to carry on a conversation with them and could learn how to be interested in things that are not immediately interesting to you.
One thing I do is try to relate something that does not initially seem interesting to something I am interested in. Even if you don't come up with anything right away, the search encourages you to focus on the boring topic at hand. You can ask questions that attempt to segue into something more interesting and in doing so may succeed in coming upon a topic of interest to both parties.


Maybe if you learned some good ways to change the subject to something less boring, you could avoid looking bored in the first place. Feeling powerless to get out of the boring situation makes me feel trapped, and rudely expressing my boredom non-verbally is a subconscious effort to make them stop. Instead, try to wrangle the conversation into a different direction. Let's say they are wanting to talk about a problem they are having with their pre-schooler biting other kids, a topic of no interest to you. They probably don't need or want you to try to solve the problem for them and are just wanting to vent, so the content of their complaint is irrelevant. Now maybe you can't help but to think "well, you have this kid, so you've obviously brought this problem upon yourself, therefore why should I be sympathetic?" but if you think a step beyond that, maybe you can think of some problem you've caused for yourself as well and think of something to say that will indicate that you have heard and understood them. While they are enjoying the feeling that you are relating, you may be able to work in a new topic of conversation.


But you weren't born with these interests... How did you get interested in them in the first place? How can you be sure that you can't develop others if you give them a reasonable chance?

Frankly, I think your interests sound like almost the most boring things possible, but that is just my personal opinion. I respect the fact that they are interesting to you and am interested in how it's possible to be interested in things that, to me, are so incredibly boring, so I'd have plenty to talk to you about.



But why don't you learn more about how time signatures work?
And plenty of people who are college-educated would be happy to discuss anti-science conspiracy theories with you, even if they don't agree. And aren't fantasy sports teams all about outside-the-box strategies and stuff (maybe not? I know little of the appeal of fantasy sports or what they entail)?

You could explain your interests without becoming frustrated that the other person doesn't already know about them and you could relate it to things outside the interest to get them to be interested too.



Obviously reproducing is not a sign of emotional maturity, and I don't think most people really think it is, and most people really are not devoted to careers either, since most jobs are not what would typically be called careers anyway. There is no shortage of people who don't have children, don't care about their careers, and don't see either of those as related to maturity.



Being closed-minded causes people to ignore evidence that their worldview is false. A closed-minded person treats their prejudices and preconceived notions as facts. This is not something to be proud of, like holding steadfast beliefs. Your preferences and interests are not your identity and there is nothing wishy-washy about allowing new information to change your mind about something.



How will you identify your kind without getting to know anyone who is not immediately obviously your kind?
Your kind is at home alone, like you. You will therefore probably never cross paths.



These are not inherent properties of children. Children have been alive for some span of time between 0 and whatever age you think turns them into adults. That's all that they necessarily have in common. Once upon a time, like most people, I was a child. I had a normal voice, but I basically never made any noise around even adults I had known for years. I bathed daily and didn't smell, I didn't move around erratically, and if an adult spoke to me normally, I appreciated it, as the fakeness was exactly why I didn't want to communicate with adults much. Had someone hated me for existing for an insufficient amount of time rather than for something I had done, I'd have concluded that they were a fool.


Blaming the children for needing adult care is ridiculous. They didn't ask to be born any more than the rest of us did.


Well personally, I consider myself something of an anthropologist here to study their behavior and cultural rituals, so I enjoy the chance to observe them and even to participate at times, mimicking their behavior. Therefore I try to talk to them about whatever they are interested in, to glean information as to how or why they think the thing is interesting, and sometimes I talk about my own interests and try to get them interested too. Humans are fascinating creatures and I have learned a lot!


It doesn't have to take up more than a few hours a week, and it sounds like you have time to socialize but lack people to socialize with, so why can't you use that time?

Let me start off by saying I really appreciate, in the truest sense of the word, that a stranger would take the time to address this issue in such detail. It’s obvious you’ve thought out your responses and are an insightful person that I can learn from. You seemingly possess many skills I lack, yet your responses make total sense to me, though not all seem to be things I’m capable of. You appear to have a very proactive personality. At least that’s how it comes across. Where you see potential empowerment, I see powerlessness. I need to change this, I know. But it’s so ingrained into who I am.

In reading your responses, one thing sort of jumped out to me about myself. I have a very difficult time seeing other people in a human way. People for me serve a purpose. Their existence is only to enrich mine or else they are utterly useless to me. Which is why I’m so focused on interests. Their personality doesn’t matter to me much, only that they can carry on a conversation that I wish to have. I really don’t like people all that much I guess. That’s not to say I can’t get to really care for someone, or even love them, but this takes a long time. There’s no middle ground. I love a very few people intensely, and have basically little regard for humanity outside of those few. When you speak of the genuine interest you have in people and learning about them, I simply can’t understand how one would feel that way, as it’s so alien to me. Now this, of course, is naturally the biggest problem I’m facing. Thank you for leading me to that. I kind of have noticed that recently, but I’m starting to see the depth of the problem. I also realize that unfortunately, basically all of my closest friendships since I’ve been in middle school have been centered around this common distaste of humanity.

I guess this (the finding friends issue) turns out to be far more complex than I had anticipated. Maybe I’m just not the type of person who makes friends and I should just learn to be comfortable with that. It seems as though I may have too many fundamental issues with me that sort of prevent me from functioning in most normal, adult friendships. It’s just so hard for me because I have no outlets to talk to anyone right now, I cannot even attempt to change my social approach and I’m only getting worse. I mean, I’ve worked at the same place for almost three years and other than the very rare hello or good morning, to which I usually nod back, I’ve not spoken to anyone there since I’ve been there. There are people whom I walk by every day (it’s only an office of about 20) as though they do not even exist. I’ve spoken to my boss less than a half dozen times. And when I do I email him. So yeah, my social skills really, really suck. And it appears as though it’s because, in many ways, I suck as a human being.

I’ve suspected this to be the case, but did not want to accept it. Maybe I just need to accept who and what I am, be thankful I at least found a woman who could tolerate me, and live out my days the best I can. You are right when you say “my kind” are at home and we will likely never cross paths. I’ve thought of this thousands of times. Which is why I needed to use a dating site to even meet my wife. Same idea.

On the other hand, I could attempt the huge task of overhauling my worldview (yet again) and trying to retrain myself to think in ways that are very unnatural to me. Seems I’ve been doing this periodically throughout my life. It just seems like the only way I’d have a chance to make any new friends. And without the genuine, simple satisfaction of personal interactions, just for the humanity of it, I don’t know if I even have what it takes to make those changes.

You’ve given me a lot to think about.

If you think you can't do something, you can't. By telling yourself it is impossible, you have no motive to try, as such attempts would therefore be futile. Everyone has the potential to change, even you. You don't have to stop being yourself to become a happier version of yourself.


Why converse with anyone if it's all about you? Couldn't you just write in a journal or think to yourself if you weren't needing them to be another human being? Would talking to a computer programmed to make agreeing noises and faking interest serve the same purpose?


Well in the abstract, what is there to like? Traits that lead to evolutionary success are not necessarily pleasant or appealing--pretty much the opposite, really. Things that are considered distinctly "human" are generally flaws and weaknesses, but a dislike of humanity is just one more thing you may have in common with many others, so it could be a great bonding point.

Regardless of my opinion of humanity, humans are incredibly varied and complex, so why wouldn't they be interesting?


Your friendship with someone doesn't have to look exactly like anyone else's friendship with anyone else. You don't need a "normal" friendship, you need friends. Maybe your new friends won't be "normal" either. What if only .1% of people are potential friends for you? You should still expect that there would be 30 of them in a town of 30,000, and you don't need 30 friends. Don't give up on finding one just yet!


You don't suck as a human being if you aren't going around harming people. Lacking social skills is not morally wrong or an affront to society, so don't be so down on yourself.

You say you care only about what use people can provide for you, but maybe this is just a way to preemptively reject them before they reject you, because you do care what they think. You crave social connection, like a normal person would, and here in writing, your instincts are actually very good. You've expressed gratitude very well to me for trying to help you, and you really don't come across at all as someone who does not genuinely care about others. Having difficulty returning a greeting or initiating a conversation indicates a level of social anxiety that probably wouldn't exist if you are as detached from the rest of humanity as you claim.


You effectively solved a problem by using a dating site to meet your wife. It isn't some sort of shameful way of going about finding someone that you should judge yourself negatively for "needing" to resort to, it's a smart workaround you should be giving yourself credit for and using as inspiration for considering yourself the practical problem-solver who can figure out a way to meet your needs.


The journey may seem daunting, if you think of it as some huge chore, but try to enjoy making small progressive steps. What else do you have to do, ponder sports statistics and distantly nod at your coworkers when forced? Step outside your comfort zone, you're already uncomfortable anyway!