What exactly IS a "friend?"

Post Reply New Topic

I honestly don't understand the subject in a depthful sense.
Some may consider those who are simply nice to them friends. Others that they are people who actively make the effort to interact with you socially, and you have a sustained relationship and often, a specific set of mutual emotional attachments.
But what exactly is a friend? Especially to an autistic? Am I characteristically overcomplicating a simple issue, looking for a deeper interpretation that is not there, while ignoring the obvious answer everyone else sees?
If people (usually those in a professional sense - doctors, therapists, researchers) ask me if I have any friends, I reply "no," without hesitation. And yet, I have heard myself described as a friend by someone else, and had no awareness that we had entered into that state. I simply view them as someone I know.
I regard them well, we interact and it's acceptable, I'm not adverse to continuing the interaction and am interested in them and their life, but I was under the impression that a friend was something more, and I would know it when it happened.
I have been running a bit of a social experiment again on the subject and if anything, it is only making my understanding of this more unclear. I'm likely blaming this on alexithymic detachment, and wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed the explanation, but I'm wondering what this is like for other autistics, whether you're atypical emotionally or not. What exactly is a friend???

Amongst other things: someone who you feel comfortable around, share interests with, does not drain you of energy, someone you can have fun with.

Or as Data would define it:

I would consider a friend to be someone that chooses to spend time with me socially, not because they have to or because they know someone else that I'm spending time with and they're really spending time with the other person, and I just happen to be there as well.

That said, I am an utterly useless friend by that description. I always used to think that if anyone would actually be my friend, I'd be a good and loyal friend in return. In reality, I am absolutely rubbish at arranging to meet up with people that I consider to be friends. They constantly have to make the first move, and continue to prompt me, and organise what we're doing. Not because I don't care, but because I just don't think or remember.

But, on the other hand, I like to believe that there is loyalty underneath it all. I might not organise to meet up, or remember to ask people how they are, but if they needed me then I'd be there. That even applies to people from years ago, many of whom ween't even friends but just didn't behave negatively towards me.

A human that you can connect with, usually on an interest level with the odd emotional level.

i don't think ive ever really felt that with another person, perhaps my best and only friend, but im losing him when i go to uni because he isn't (didn't get the grades so is still doing courses to get there). sad really, i guess im not really in the knowledge of what friendship truly is.

Aw, hell. I used to really wish for a close colleague - a connection based vocationally on an absorbing field of work, so we could interact very closely in that way, but our private lives and personal business need never have to come into it. I made the mistake of telling the therapist this, who gave me "the look" in a despairing sort of way and said that if your personal lives weren't discussed, it wouldn't be a friendship to begin with.
I'm beginning to think it's an alexithymic difference. No emotional connection.
Maybe you can keep your friend via online means when you go to uni? Seems a shame to waste if it's a rare thing.

I think there needs to be reciprocity and respect for one another, but you dont necessarily need to bring emotions into a friendship, in order for it to be considered a friendship. I think you need to have a certain amount of emparhy, but, you show that you possess that, within your response to randomeu. And, please forgive me if you have an aversion to the word. I know that some folks do, and I wish to show respect for that.

I am wondering if you would be opposed to me inquiring with you about your preferences as someone with alexythemia, in regard to interpersonal relationships/friendships. If so, I will return, tomorrow to inquire. Thanks for considering it, C2V.

I define friendship the following way. Someone who has legitimate interest in you as a person, for no other reason than beeing with you. A person where you dont have to pretend, dont play an act, where you are free to be yourself. Someone who doesnt judge you. Someone who is honest with you, even if it hurts but also wants you to be the same with him/her. Someone who cares for what you have to say, and who is there (physicly or emotionally) when s**t hits the fan. Someone who is loyal to you no matter what. Someone you can laugh with, cry with and share your thougths with without fear how s/hes going to react. Someone you can connect with, expierence mutual trust. Someone you really miss after awhile, in opposite of the drain most people put on you. Someone you can have legitimate fights with over differing opinions, but who stays objective, still respects your point and youll be ok afterwards. A friend. From what i have read up on the internet, these are even rare for NTs. And what most people would describe as friendship would just be a better acquintance from my perspective.

I know i have pretty high standarts for friendship, and its kinda ironic for someone who struggles or fails to even find acquintances but a friendship is something special. You just dont "get" a friend, friendship has to be earned. Im thankful to have one such person in my life, i really am. What started out as a random Nerd who approached me on the schoolbus while i was monologing about computer stuff 10 years ago ended up teaching me the very important lesson of what it means to not be alone in this world. If i struggle with something totally obvious to him i can ask him, if i fail in a social situation with others he explains it to me, and its just a good feeling to spend time with him beeing silly. It took long years for this friendship to mature to this point, and it is very important to me today. I value it even more that i value the few relationships i had in my life, wich drained me intensly...

Peace
TK

1.
This is where my lines blur, I think, without the emotional intelligence to be instinctual as most people are on the subject.

See, there you get into the murky realms of cognitive Vs emotional empathy. I have cognitive empathy because I have a well developed sense of ethics in order to compensate, and compassion is part of that ethical structure. Intellectually I understand kindness, compassion, wishing only happiness for all things and structuring my actions as such, but I don't feel it emotionally. No affection, no attachment, no warm fuzzy feelings. I have blanket respect as a matter of intellectual principle. As for reciprocity, I can achieve that with someone who is just a person I know, if you mean just the back-and-forth nature of conversation. I guess I didn't consider it friendship because I really don't feel it.

In what regard? It's certainly an interesting and difficult subject that is really in my face increasingly recently, so sure, shoot. Maybe we'll both learn something.
2.
This gets very very tricky and possibly into semantics -

But can that really be said, of anyone? I remember reading something once on the subject of selflessness, and how outside enlightenment, there is no such thing. This for example - people are always getting something out of the interaction. Even if it benefits both parties, it still benefits them. If they like you as a person, they are likely receiving pleasure and enjoyment out of your company, and fulfilling their own need for social interaction, emotional connection, and alleviating loneliness. Ergo, they're still getting something out of you. They benefit from the interaction for self-based reasons.

This point too confused me, and was actually said (more or less) by someone I know recently. That I could have called him when I had trouble with surgery recently, and he would have come over to the hospital to collect me. The thought honestly hadn't occurred to me, and nor would it. If I am in trouble I view that as my problem, and wouldn't think of involving others outside of a utilitarian capacity in order to fix the problem. Even then marginally.

Grey, again. And I actually don't cry, but I assume you mean it colloquially, not literally? Because don't most people concede that there is a "limit"? A "deal breaker"? Some things you can't / shouldn't continue a friendship because of? In my experience all things are conditional to some degree. There is always restraining your behaviour in order to be acceptable. There is often a shifting point cited where you should cut contact with someone behaving in a way you dislike. I doubt many people would be truly unconditionally and completely loyal no matter what, long term. And indeed, others often encourage you to cut contact at a certain point in another person's behaviour in order to respect or protect yourself.
As for trust - I don't really understand this concept either so can't comment reliably. Again, I suspect it would rest on variable factors for more people than just me. There is a topic here about not missing others, and I experience this too. I won't miss someone in the sense of loss or emotional yearning. Doesn't happen. Don't know if I am incapable or just inexperienced. That sounds cold, and maybe it is, but it also does not depreciate a person's worth in the present, nor indicate any kind of mistreatment. And as for differing views same problem - at what point are those differing views too great and the connection dissolves?
I'm interested in getting to the nuts and bolts foundations of this because it seems to me many people just run on instinct with this, take it for granted, don't actually examine it, just accept it.
Actually working it out is interesting, so thanks for the interesting replies above and keep coming !

WARNING - Wall of Text ahead!
Also had to split to 3 individual posts because of Cloudflare / CRAPTCHA

Yes you are right, but my point is that they get the same out of beeing with you as you get from beeing with them. Its indeed a shared benefit. Without that, friendships would be a completely unnecessary thing honestly.



Yes i understand that. I do mostly the same, but maybe you can imagine it like a safety net for circus artists. You dont really want or need it and never think about it when beeing on the big swing, but just knowing its there adds an extra layer of saftey&confidence to you. Knowing that (metaphoricly) there is someone to catch you when you fall. Or for another example, when beeing out with a friend and some confronts you because whatever maybe just a drunk idiot looking for trouble, a friend stands up for you and vice versa. It may be your problem, but by making it both of yours problem makes it a smaller problem overall. Your example is a good one. Its a smaller hassle to drive somewhere and pick one up than a bigger hassle to walk or take the bus. So when able to, the dude is willing to take a smaller hassle te relieve you of your bigger hassle. Thats kindness. But there are more sides to this, like getting a second opinion on things you arent sure about yourself, exchanging knowledge in order to learn how to deal with things better and much more. Its a very broad and deep topic wich i dont understand completely myself...



No No, i meant it literally. I dont really cry either but alot of people do and i learned that alot of these people then need someone to cry out to, thats where the friend comes in. Like for everything there is a limit, ofcourse. Everything needs to be balanced somehow, but the point is not crying to somebody constantly, but beeing able to when you really need to without feeling ashamed. I guess it may be beeing able to show your momentary weakness while knowing no one is going to judge you for it. And thats where i wouldnt make a good friend as i usually dont know what to do when someone is crying, but nobody is perfect right? People have done this to me and my intuitive reaction to it is to try to fix the problem that caused it, but it seems thats not what people seek for when they do it...

Last edited by Tiankay on 11 Jul 2016, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The key factor is acceptance to who you truly are. If someone changes a friendship may break apart. Or it may even grow stronger over time. Me and my friend for sure arent the same people we were 10 years ago from a personality viewpoint. There was a time when he became a douche and we lost contact for about 3 years, but when he came back and realised that what he changed to was no good, excused and changed for good, he again became a very close friend to me till today. Its who we are and how we value each other what held us together for all this years. Where the limit is before a connection gets lost depends on the people involved. There is no hardcoded line here that you could easily pin down, it a variable that depends completely on the personality of both persons involved. The only thing i know is that it tends to be more closer the more narraw minded a person is. I learned that for a good friendship the personal boundaries must be communicated verbally when encountered and respected by the other person. And you are completely right in doubting that many people are unconditional, it always is to a specific degree. I lost someone who i thought to be a real friend after she relapsed to taking hard drugs, abusing me and talking behind my back. Thats not a condition i am willing to accept so i cut contact. The thing is that boundaries for a friend are much smaller than for strangers or acquaintances. Example - I would never let a stranger and rarely an acquaintance into my home. This is my personal safe bubble from the world, and i dont like invaders. But for a friend, hes always welcome. Boundaries get smaller because of trust, and that enables you to be more of yourself and less of an act around a friend. And when the boundaries that still are there are communicated and respected something that feels more like us than like you and me might develop. Thats what i call a friendship. But again, dont take my word for it alone. I have very high standarts for a friendship. And what people view as friendship is not a written law, its more like a spectrum itself. People view und judge friendships differently, so my view is only one part of the story.

Trust as a concept is difficult to describe. I may have an example but its abstract and oversimplifying. When beeing around strangers or in public, you shouldnt leave your wallet on a table when you leave for the restroom because you dont know these people, you cannot trust them to not take it and rob you. Trust is when you know someone that good that you can leave your wallet because you know they wouldnt touch it. This might turn out not be true, as you can trust the wrong people and get robbed anyway. So one has to be careful with who he trusts with and to what degree. You expierence trust too, without it you would be severly impared in daily life. If you ride by bus, you have to trust the bus driver that he knows how to drive, not to crash and maybe kill you. You trust the doctor that he knows how to do his surgery. I mean hes working on your body, you wouldnt let someone do that who you wouldnt trust in that matter would you? Its the same for friendships, but on a personal level. To share personal things and thoughts, you need to trust the person that he/she is not going to use it against you someday. Maybe by blurting out a secret of you to everyone, may be by using one of your personal soft spots against you to hurt you. And to build that level of trust, it needs time and expierence with a person.

I tend to be overtrusting, you can call it naive. I never think that people could be mean/dishonest, the possibility that people could use something against me just isnt a thing that comes to my mind when being in a situation. And this has gotten me into trouble more than often because i trusted the wrong people and didnt understood their motivations.

On the topic of missing people, i dont really miss people either. What i miss is the feeling that i have when im beeing with my friend. I couldnt describe it to you if my life would depend on it, i only know its a very positive feeling and i want it in my life sometimes. We see each other maybe 6 times a year and everytime its just such a good thing to be whereever we are. Otherwise we talk over skype around once a week and the funny thing is, the psychatrist i was seeing lately said that for a "normal friendship" this is unsually low, still i value it very high.

You also have a very good point with people taking friendship for granted. I believe thats a big reason why many friendships break apart, because people just taking it for granted...

Peace
TK

Hi C2V,

Regarding your statement: (In what regard? It's certainly an interesting and difficult subject that is really in my face increasingly recently, so sure, shoot. Maybe we'll both learn something.)

Thanks very much. It is a subject that has increasingly been in my face, most recently, as well. In regard to your final question, within your initial post; I would say that I am 'atypical emotionally', however, I am at the opposite end of the emotional spectrum, so to speak. I had hoped to return, here, earlier, but could not find an opportunity, until this moment, and it is currently 1:00 AM, so I shall return, (hopefully) tomorrow to discuss!

I believe a friend is someone who is emotionally available to another person at all times (except, for the most part, at ridiculous hours like 3 AM). A friend will not thwart somebody who seeks "an ear."

A friend will offer constructive, rather than destructive, criticism.

A friend will be honest.

A friend will always show that he/she likes the friend.

It would be nice if the friend is available to, say, help someone move.

It would be nice, if financially possible, for a friend to help out another friend in financial need.

A friend will not "enable" a person--by allowing that person to destroy his/her self. A friend will be proactive, not passive, when a friend is, say, cutting his/her self.

Ive only had one friend . In my view it is someone I don't categorise like school friends- I talk about work and only work, mental health friend- we only talk about depressing stuff.

I thought I knew what a friend was. I don't anymore.

To me a friend doesnt say cruel and hurtful things, doesn't demand you change yourself according to their vision of who they think you should be, but accepts you as you are and offers encouragement. Someone you laugh with, someone you do things with, someone who genuinely cares. There is nothing I wouldn't do for a friend. But unfortunately that kind of friendship is rare and hard to find. It is difficult for me to read people. I end up befriending people who are not true and good in their intentions. And that leads to heartache.

I'm beginning to think I am just better off alone. It's safer that way.

I've asked myself the same question, and was going to make a topic on it, though I have reached my own conclusions. While I don't know how applicable it might be for you, I'll just say that it is not a physical science and everyone's criteria will be different. Anyways, so here is my response to your question:

Basically, a friend (to me) is someone who knows you more than a stranger or acquaintance, will not look down or make fun of you for your preferences or life choices (especially if it doesn't harm or effect anyone else except the individual), is able to converse on some more sensitive topics more freely (again without judgment or prejudice), hangs out with you as well as enjoys your company, and most importantly, will support you when you really need it (not necessarily financially, but at least emotionally like lending an ear, offering good advice, being understanding, etc). The last part is important and it is one of the ultimate deal breaker for me when it comes to finding out who is a "REAL" friend. So many people easily just throw around the label of "friend" when in fact they are only pretending to be a friend but aren't really one.

Sadly, I don't have many of those people in my life, I used to have a very close friend, but as our circle of friends changed, geographic distance increased, interests and values changed, he simply just slowly faded away from my circle and parted ways.

I also want to say others' criteria for what they consider a friend to them are also good, and while slightly different, there are several overlaps with my criteria.