"no, that's not what I meant".
Two times in the last 24 hours I pissed off someone I like and was trying hard not to piss off, and I "helped" another person by being rude. Not a good day.
First, early yesterday, the person I liked was deeply offended by something I said because they understood something I said differently from the way I meant it.
Then, last night, someone from the farm where I spend my free time calls me (ugh), distraught (double ugh), to tell me she is putting her horse down. I tried to ask her if I could do anything for her ... to help. Apparently I said something like "what do you want me to do?" (yeah I know, duh). I told her I didn't mean it the way she took it but she said it was good because it shook her out of her funk and helped her re-focus, thanked me, and told me to remember that technique when dealing with people because it was very effective. I was nonplussed. Technique? Huh?
Then, this morning, I was texting the same person I pissed off yesterday morning and it made me think of something so I replied regarding the thing I thought of. They took it as a directly reply to what they had previously said and, in that context, it took on a different meaning and irritated them. I had to explain which was just awkward. This person is the closest thing I currently have to a friend, though they will probably go the way of all the others.
I know misunderstandings happen with NT's too but this kind of thing happens to me a LOT ... no matter how hard I try to avoid it. It makes me feel so stupid. I have a hard time putting my thoughts to words in a way that people understand them the same way I mean them. It often seems easier just to avoid people.
How much of an issue is this for you guys? Do you have any strategies for avoiding it? I try to be direct but that usually ends up worse. I'm so frustrated right now...
go to counseling.
try to consider someone else's perspective. yes i know - autistics are bad at doing so.
Theory of Mind
it is harder for an AS to correctly consider a NT's perspective, than for an NT to correctly consider another NT's perspective.
when someone wrongly guesses someone else's perspective, the punishment is subject to the recipient's imagination.
in the past, i have misunderstood a lot of things and caused a lot of misunderstandings. many times it did not matter functionally. but sometimes, the punishment was beyond my imagination.
and when i correctly guessed someone else's perspective, the reward was not much.
cost benefit analysis
sometimes i don't feel like it's worth it to interact with precious lil "people".
so much to loose. so little to gain.
try to consider someone else's perspective. yes i know - autistics are bad at doing so.
Theory of Mind
it is harder for an AS to correctly consider a NT's perspective, than for an NT to correctly consider another NT's perspective.
when someone wrongly guesses someone else's perspective, the punishment is subject to the recipient's imagination.
in the past, i have misunderstood a lot of things and caused a lot of misunderstandings. many times it did not matter functionally. but sometimes, the punishment was beyond my imagination.
and when i correctly guessed someone else's perspective, the reward was not much.
cost benefit analysis
sometimes i don't feel like it's worth it to interact with precious lil "people".
so much to loose. so little to gain.
Your first sentence seems to say you think I should try but your last seems to say it's not worth it. Do you try or do you avoid interacting with people (or somewhere in the middle I guess)? Does counseling really help? ToM. I know other people have "different beliefs, desires, and intentions". I just often miss the mark when I'm trying to figure out what they are. People are so irrational :/
First, early yesterday, the person I liked was deeply offended by something I said because they understood something I said differently from the way I meant it.
Then, last night, someone from the farm where I spend my free time calls me (ugh), distraught (double ugh), to tell me she is putting her horse down. I tried to ask her if I could do anything for her ... to help. Apparently I said something like "what do you want me to do?" (yeah I know, duh). I told her I didn't mean it the way she took it but she said it was good because it shook her out of her funk and helped her re-focus, thanked me, and told me to remember that technique when dealing with people because it was very effective. I was nonplussed. Technique? Huh?
Then, this morning, I was texting the same person I pissed off yesterday morning and it made me think of something so I replied regarding the thing I thought of. They took it as a directly reply to what they had previously said and, in that context, it took on a different meaning and irritated them. I had to explain which was just awkward. This person is the closest thing I currently have to a friend, though they will probably go the way of all the others.
I know misunderstandings happen with NT's too but this kind of thing happens to me a LOT ... no matter how hard I try to avoid it. It makes me feel so stupid. I have a hard time putting my thoughts to words in a way that people understand them the same way I mean them. It often seems easier just to avoid people.
How much of an issue is this for you guys? Do you have any strategies for avoiding it? I try to be direct but that usually ends up worse. I'm so frustrated right now...
I find this sort of thing a good rational for limited communication with others. The less I talk, the less I offend others.
_________________
Peace among worlds!
BirdInFlight
Veteran
Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?
Happens to me ALLLLLL the time -- and most of all right here on WP!! !
Seriously. Even when I think I've made myself perfectly clear, chosen the right words, and articulated something accurately so that it can't be misunderstood, someone takes something the wrong way completely, makes sweeping assumptions, or extrapolates stuff that isn't even there in what I said.
Or even when I don't say much of anything, someone just now on this site had decided FOR me exactly what my viewpoint and opinion must be, and then reacted to me based on their imagination of what I said or what I'm like. Not based on reality, as I didn't even share any.
Just a few days ago on here someone else interpreted my post as "being offended" and quite extremely so -- which was all in THEIR imagination, because I wasn't feeling any such thing and even my post was worded about as mild-mannered as it could possibly be, full of "kinda sorta hmm dunno. . ." rather than raging anger at anything. . . . . .
Sometimes I just think I should give up on ALL communication with ANYONE. Not just in real life but online too. I'm f*****g sick of the complete misinterpretations and misunderstandings. People seem to read what they want to read into anything you say, and hear what they want to hear, not what you actually said.
I feel your pain!
For me, it's not a matter of IF there's a miscommunication with someone, it's a matter of WHEN.
Eventually, I will say something with the best of intentions that is not received as intended and then I have someone yelling, crying, or fleeing.
I literally lost my previous job due to my (horrible) manager misunderstanding something she overheard me say to another co-worker (who actually did understand me and tried to defend me). I tried to clarify it to her, which only made things worse.
I'm just about to throw in the towel on social media, like Facebook, because I'm coming to realize that most of my "Friends", who I actually know in real life, don't really like me. It probably would have been better to still have fond memories of high school friends that I lost touch with than to connect with them online only to find they're carrying a grudge against you that you're clueless about and they only accepted your friend request to be polite.
I try to get together with friends when I go back to my hometown. I let them know ahead of time..."Cool, call when you get here."...When I get there all the sudden they're incredibly busy, out of town, or don't bother to answer. These are people that I considered to be close friends...and I'm not just talking about an isolated occurrence here or there...I mean EVERYBODY EVERY TIME.
Apparently, I'm a real jerk and I'm the only one who doesn't know. I've been alienating and upsetting people my whole life and only recently have come to realize it and it causes me a great deal of distress. I know for my own well-being I just need to limit my contact with people from now on. Now, to listen to myself and actually do it...
Seriously. Even when I think I've made myself perfectly clear, chosen the right words, and articulated something accurately so that it can't be misunderstood, someone takes something the wrong way completely, makes sweeping assumptions, or extrapolates stuff that isn't even there in what I said.
Or even when I don't say much of anything, someone just now on this site had decided FOR me exactly what my viewpoint and opinion must be, and then reacted to me based on their imagination of what I said or what I'm like. Not based on reality, as I didn't even share any.
Just a few days ago on here someone else interpreted my post as "being offended" and quite extremely so -- which was all in THEIR imagination, because I wasn't feeling any such thing and even my post was worded about as mild-mannered as it could possibly be, full of "kinda sorta hmm dunno. . ." rather than raging anger at anything. . . . . .
Sometimes I just think I should give up on ALL communication with ANYONE. Not just in real life but online too. I'm f*****g sick of the complete misinterpretations and misunderstandings. People seem to read what they want to read into anything you say, and hear what they want to hear, not what you actually said.
I've been following the post that you're referencing, and there was nothing in your comment or wording there that inferenced the reaction that you got. Your post was well-worded, and I thought a nice contribution to the thread. I've seen your posts other places too and enjoy reading what you have to share. Your posts are also very clear and articulate. Please don't give up - sometimes the mis-communication actually is due to the other party and not ourselves.
try to consider someone else's perspective. yes i know - autistics are bad at doing so.
Theory of Mind
it is harder for an AS to correctly consider a NT's perspective, than for an NT to correctly consider another NT's perspective.
when someone wrongly guesses someone else's perspective, the punishment is subject to the recipient's imagination.
in the past, i have misunderstood a lot of things and caused a lot of misunderstandings. many times it did not matter functionally. but sometimes, the punishment was beyond my imagination.
and when i correctly guessed someone else's perspective, the reward was not much.
cost benefit analysis
sometimes i don't feel like it's worth it to interact with precious lil "people".
so much to loose. so little to gain.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Your first sentence seems to say you think I should try but your last seems to say it's not worth it. Do you try or do you avoid interacting with people (or somewhere in the middle I guess)? Does counseling really help? ToM. I know other people have "different beliefs, desires, and intentions". I just often miss the mark when I'm trying to figure out what they are. People are so irrational :/
_______________________________________________________________________________________
in some cases, it is worth it. in some cases it ain't worth it. you must decide which cases are worth it. then stick to your decision.
thus far, i have interacted with numerous counselors. one of them told me that the purpose of counseling is to make the client feel better. but you can't measure how you feel. and some counselors made me feel worse. some counselors made me feel better. if you go to the correct counselor, it could help. also it would help if you had specific goals in mind. for example, i have a diagnosis for clinical depression. instead of saying that i want the counselor to help me be less depressed, i could say that i am going to measure serotonin weekly, and if serotonin rises then that's less depressed.
It might take many times of repeating this.
Eventually they will get used to you.
Some people are overly sensitive, I tend to stay away from these types.
______________
Not everyone is receptive to "the truth" about everything at all times
Maybe you phrased it in a way that was not the most functional
But the problem it seems to me that not many people are receptive
.
And they act like they are receptive but they are close minded
And they outnumber overpower and outsmart me
It quite frankly seems like there are too many precious lil "people" I hate and fear and not many exception
This happens to me a lot too.
I don´t think the reason is you, I think some people are really mean and take advantage of the weak sides they have discover and use it against you. I would not cope with a friend that gets easily irritated with me for no big reason.
_________________
Beauty is fleeting, but a rent-controlled apartment overlooking the city is forever
I think I know what the solution is. You need to choose simple and direct words that when fused together, sound like what you meant to say. Big, complicated, and unclear words confuse people. Words with double meanings also confuse people. If you talk to the other person like an adult there will be less issues. Tell yourself in your head what you are about to tell to the other person. Think about what you were about to say to other people. If what you were about to say feels the same in the way you meant it, then the other person can understand what you were talking about and what your feeling.
Think before you say.
However, like this comment, sometimes too many small words can confuse people.
I've done this so many times that I just refuse to let my guard down around people until I know them very well. I separate people into my "in-group" which is very small (a few family members, boyfriend and a few friends who understand my diagnosis), and then "everyone else"
For most people who are in the "everyone else" group, I use what I would think of as social scripting. I think of myself more like a robot/computer than a human being who is capable/desiring of building a deeper relationship with these people.
(e.g.)
Input: I hear distress from someone who has to put their horse down
Automatic output: "I'm so sorry" or "I feel awful for you" or "Are you okay?"
Even if they're not 100% appropriate, they are a lot more effective for me than improvising. I also reflect on and incorporate things people have used with me into my social scripts, and try to learn from past experiences. Sometimes there is nothing more you can do other than ruminate, reflect and grow
With those who I am closer to, they'll usually tell me if they don't understand what I've said and give me a chance to reword it. I also get a chance to practice perspective-taking by using what they've told me to predict how they might be feeling. (e.g.) "You really loved that horse, you must be feeling so upset" or "You've been talking a lot about family issues, you must be feeling pretty stressed"
Whilst I'm not perfect, people at least know that I care
BirdInFlight
Veteran
Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?
It might take many times of repeating this.
Eventually they will get used to you.
Some people are overly sensitive, I tend to stay away from these types.
It's good advice though unfortunately lots of people don't stick around long enough to get used to me. Most bail at the first hint of weird.
Almost certainly. Other people's lack of understanding is part of the problem, but it's me that puts them in a position to have to be understanding. Either because I was too blunt or said something "in a way that was not the most functional".
I don´t think the reason is you, I think some people are really mean and take advantage of the weak sides they have discover and use it against you. I would not cope with a friend that gets easily irritated with me for no big reason.
Yep. Kind of leaves you with few or no friends though. That's how it works for me anyway :/
Think before you say.
However, like this comment, sometimes too many small words can confuse people.
Easier said than done. I do review the things I say in my head before I say them. I review everything I say all the time. It's exhausting. And it doesn't always work. What I am about to say always feels the same way I meant it. That's why I say it. The problem is how will it feel to other people. That would require me to be good at seeing other people's perspectives, which I am not.
For most people who are in the "everyone else" group, I use what I would think of as social scripting. I think of myself more like a robot/computer than a human being who is capable/desiring of building a deeper relationship with these people.
(e.g.)
Input: I hear distress from someone who has to put their horse down
Automatic output: "I'm so sorry" or "I feel awful for you" or "Are you okay?"
Even if they're not 100% appropriate, they are a lot more effective for me than improvising. I also reflect on and incorporate things people have used with me into my social scripts, and try to learn from past experiences. Sometimes there is nothing more you can do other than ruminate, reflect and grow
With those who I am closer to, they'll usually tell me if they don't understand what I've said and give me a chance to reword it. I also get a chance to practice perspective-taking by using what they've told me to predict how they might be feeling. (e.g.) "You really loved that horse, you must be feeling so upset" or "You've been talking a lot about family issues, you must be feeling pretty stressed"
Whilst I'm not perfect, people at least know that I care
[sighs]...yeah. Thank you. I try what you describe. Keeping your guard up most of the time is just so tiring and I slip sometimes. More often than I would like. People who know me well already will make allowances. People who don't, don't.
Theory of Mind
it is harder for an AS to correctly consider a NT's perspective, than for an NT to correctly consider another NT's perspective.
Are you sure about the first part? I mean I know all the books and professionals tend to say that, but from my personal experience I'd say that NTs aren't any better at understanding people in different situations than aspies. From what I've seen, all people (no matter if they're NT, aspie or something else) understand others better if they've had similiar experiences. I've been insituations where I've told about my problems to my mom or half sister, who've just told me that I was over reacting or wrong, but after telling the same thing to other aspies that I barely know they've been all "Yeah, that tends to happen a lot. I know how you feel." In other words they've been able to relate to the situation, to understand how I feel, better than NTs who've known me my whole life. Which is why I think that it's not about NTs and aspies, it's about people being different. The reason it seems like aspies are far worse at this stuff is because we are a minority, so we have more chances of facing people different from us, which means we have more chances to mess up.
Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not any kind of professional when it comes to these things, but I strongly believe in what I wrote above, and that belief is based on my personal experience.