Do you remember to consider the other's feelings?
This opening post is not going to be a big story, but rather it's a quick question on a very significant aspect of socializing, namely how much you invest into the other person as you socialize. I recently came to the somewhat disheartening conclusion that, for the longest time, I had selfish interests at heart while interacting with co-workers and acquaintances (I have no true friends). Whilst there have been acts of altruism on my part, I'm afraid that I have been too hung up on what the relationship means to me, and too little on what it means to the other party. Furthermore, I can be somewhat clingy, a trait I dislike in myself, but which is related to my lack of socialization in my late teens and early twenties. I am starting to explore how I can provide good companionship to the people I genuinely like and who like me as well. I've seen potential friendships get nipped in the bud because I failed to give as good as I got. I know I certainly shouldn't be looking for friendships for the sole purpose of self-gratification.
I think I've seen some of you guys struggle with similar problems concerning this aspect of socialising, and I'd like to read about your experiences.
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clarity of thought before rashness of action
What I learned from my experiences is to be as modest and humble as you can be towards people. Keeping a low key instead of being loud and obnoxious. All while not demanding other people to respect you or like you.
I'm a dork in this world, and I'm not the only one.
Last edited by ZachGoodwin on 25 Aug 2017, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The following is a repost from another thread, but I found it personally enlightening as to the way our autism imposes limitations on us without our ever appreciating just how severely handicapped we are:
@ 16 Months: waiting at the front door to leave our house - "Go. I go".
@ 3 Years: at daycare he fell backwards onto a toy and hurt himself, the daycare staff said he clearly cried - "Mommy, mommy".
@ 4 years: at the table in front of a birthday cake - "cake".
@ 4-5 years: and a rare occasion when he's upset about something he'll say - "nah, nah, nah", he clearly means "no".
These few times I've heard his voice demonstrates that he has not discovered or developed an understanding that he is a separate person from other people, that we all have individual minds and this is why we communicate to each other. From what I can tell (and have learned thru RDI), he sees me (people) on an instrumental level or as an object - he knows I'm daddy vs. a stranger, but only on a visual level.
A child cannot just start at speech, but rather communication must develop first, and the initial stage is a baby slowly developing this awareness of self from others typical between 6-9 months. As it develops, they first become aware of their parents emotions and are drawn to looking at them for their emotions and often "borrow" them (parents smile, baby smile etc). In RDI this called Emotional-Sharing-Communication and its targeted in therapy first, before speech. It must develop before speech, otherwise a child misses this developmental step and may learn to speak (attain words) but not the ability to communicate so they don't talk to people or their speech is limited to asking for things rather than taking an interest in another person mind/emotions.
After learning this and becoming really aware of it, I'm often consciously thinking about just how much my and other NT minds (I don't have ASD) take in and respond to while people are in conversation with each other. Speech or language is a very small part or end result of all the other things our NT minds subconsciously do.
Another way of trying to explain this - I would not hold a coffee cup in my hand and talk to it/look for emotions from it - why? Because my mind knows there is no other mind to talk to or give emotions in the coffee cup. Although this may sound silly (or even unintentionally offensive to some) this separate mindful awareness is exactly what's in effect with my son, but just in an relationally opposite way as he only sees me like I see the coffee cup, as an object. Our emotional sharing communication isn't there because this separate mindful awareness is absent in my son's mind. This is why my son is unaware/shows no response when I pretend to cry in front of him or after giving him tickles/scratches (which he loves) does not give them to me when I ask him.
When a child's mind doesn't discover the above or their therapy neglects to actively develop this, they go on thru life without all the interactive everyday situations with other people that shapes their mind to have the ability to commutate with other people. This leaves them with altered or atypical neurological development which in turn impedes their ability to communicate. Over a lifetime this can be devastating.
-BB400GUY
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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel - but I am, so that's how it comes out." - Bill Hicks
I really didn't understand it as a child. I used to hurt other kids, but didn't understand that I was hurting them.
As a teenager I would say whatever I thought was truthful and not care how it affected others, because facts are facts deal with it!
I think I only realised what I was like after I hurt someone emotionally when I was about 23. This person was quite an emotional and kind person and how they reacted and what they told me about feelings actually made sense to me.
That was a turning point for me. I still have very strong opinions about things, but I'm now careful not to buldoze over others with my own ideas because I respect that they are entitled to their perspective.
I also now realise that if I'm too blunt I can be hurtful which I didn't grasp when I was younger.
I think I'm getting better at taking an interest in people. Asking people at work how their weekend was for example.
I wish I'd known all this stuff when I was younger.
Interesting I can identify with some of that. As a child I could be horrible. If somebody called me a name or antagonised me I'd go for them like an attack dog, I was always having parents come into the school to confront the nightmare who'd been hounding their children to the ends of the earth.
I was considered weird, but never bullied as i think i was seen as a sociapath, It even reached as far as the police cells and courts in my teens. When I look back now I think I was frustrated at my problems being accepted, to be honest.
Anyway I grew out of that phase as we all do. What I found was that as I matured I grew a far more highly developed conscience as a compensating factor for my inability to put myself in other people place. Nowadays if I even do somebody a slight wrong I'll go all guilty over it, inordinately so. Ive turned into a complete wimp.
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"all men can see these tactics whereby I conquer; yet none can see the strategy by which victory is evolved"...
No but I am finally developing tactics that consistently turn my attention to them and inquire how they are. I've trained myself to keep asking about feelings, what someone is up to, etc. Trying to include questions about the stuff they have been telling me about their lives.
No matter what, though, eventually an NT will remove themselves from my life. Even friends that profess love and devotion. It's just too uncomfortable or hurts once too often.
Here's the thing:
Yes, I consider other people's feelings.
No, I don't always know how to translate this into socially correct words and actions.
Sometimes I just have no clue.
Or by the time I figure it out, it becomes awkward.
And sometimes I may not even know how to interpret what other people are feeling ...
I can strongly sense a strong feeling, but may not know what it means.
But I would certainly like to be considerate.
Methinks I need a course in social skills.
I don't remember ever not considering the other person's feelings when I've interracted with someone. That doesn't mean I don't hurt those people; it happens quite a lot actually. The thing is that despite trying to put my words in a way that won't hurt people's feelings it doesn't always work. Sometimes I say something and later realize exactly why it might be considered hurtful, but there are things I've said years ago and while knowing they hurt a person I still can't understand why. Sometimes I play these conversations over and over again in my head and try to imagine myself in a situation where I'm not the one saying those things but the one they're said to, yet it still doesn't make sense to me why they got hurt by it.
I do in one way at least - I consider myself to be very damaging to others, so I am constantly mindful of mediating that impact as much as I can. I try to minimize their exposure to me, keep everything possible about myself from everyone so they don't have to deal with me, and try not to be a burden as much as I can.
Often this extends to thinking that me completely staying away from others is the best thing I can do for them, without realizing (I only know because others have directly told me) that they actually either welcome for some reason unknown, or have use for me, that benefits them being around me. So I misunderstand that at times, but I still believe I am not a good person to know, and others would be better served by having as little to do with me as possible.
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Alexithymia - 147 points.
Low-Verbal.
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