“Why do you ask for my advice and then argue with it?”

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TimmyBoy
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19 May 2019, 2:29 am

One issue I have encountered is where I go to someone for advice - or perhaps to just vent about something and they offer advice anyway - but then I ask follow up questions and I get a sarcastic response like this:

“Well clearly you don’t need advice from me! Do what you want since you CLEARLY know better! Honestly, why ask for my advice and then argue with me?”

This complaint is based on a flawed basic premise: that the fact that I asked for advice (assuming I actually did) means I have to agree with the advice given and I’m not allowed to ask questions about parts of the advice that don’t make sense to me.

It is entirely possible to LISTEN to advice and to appreciate someone taking the time to assist by offering their perspective without agreeing with what they say in the end. E.g. if someone tried to cheer me up when I was down by telling me that God was up there looking out for me then I wouldn’t agree because I am an atheist, but I would still appreciate that person for doing their best to help.

Am I missing something?



magz
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19 May 2019, 5:13 am

Maybe remembering to say "I appreciate your advice, especially <some part you really agree with>" before asking any further questions would help.


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kraftiekortie
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19 May 2019, 6:49 am

Yep. Show your appreciation for the efforts of the other person who thought enough about you to give advice.

I’m not saying bow down or curtsy to the person. Just acknowledge the person.



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19 May 2019, 8:50 am

I find that answering someone's follow up questions never improves the situation. I believe the questions are often rhetorical and not meant to be answered. Problem is, I get tasked at work with answering difficult questions all the time so that I usually answer them before figuring out that they were meant to be rhetorical.



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20 May 2019, 6:16 am

There's a subtle art to avoiding a disagreement becoming an argument, and it's something I still have difficulty with. People often think I'm questioning their judgement and get all defensive, when all I was trying to do was seek clarification just to understand their point. Still working on how to avoid that.

One thing I know is just what others have said, it's important to acknowledge the value of the opinion offered before voicing any negatives.

For example, my ex used to do this thing that drove me crazy - he would ask my opinion on something and then vehemently explain why my opinion was all wrong, which compelled me to defend my point of view, and him to argue against me, until the whole thing escalated into verbal warfare :roll:

Not that I'm saying you do this, I'm just suggesting it's worth being aware of the potential for upset where points of view differ and avoid seeking clarification in a way that could be perceived as an attack on the opinion received.



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20 May 2019, 8:42 am

I've had many discussions that ended up with me giving suggestion after suggestion, only to have each suggestion met with "Yeah, but...". This indicates to me that the person really did not want any advice, but only wanted attention (and a big dose of pity). I've only recently learned to simply give up after the first "Yeah, but...".

Never say "Yeah, but..." when sincerely asking for advice.

As the others have said, it will likely work out better if you first show appreciation for the advice, and then ask for elaboration on specific points.



BTDT
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20 May 2019, 10:57 am

Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later. :wink:



Fnord
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20 May 2019, 11:28 am

BTDT wrote:
Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later.
"Yeah, but ... I'm not you!"

:lol:



Teach51
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20 May 2019, 11:44 am

Annoying chirpy me butting in here with my 2 bits: :P

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink."

It's fine to keep throwing advice out into the universe, some one will take heed, maybe not the one it is intended for, but it will not go to waste. Good intentions are never a waste. Many people read these posts. Perhaps at a later date the penny will drop in a certain situation and the advice will be remembered. That happens. The horse will drink when it's ready. ( metaphor)


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Fnord
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20 May 2019, 3:12 pm

Teach51 wrote:
It's fine to keep throwing advice out into the universe, some one will take heed, maybe not the one it is intended for, but it will not go to waste. Good intentions are never a waste. Many people read these posts. Perhaps at a later date the penny will drop in a certain situation and the advice will be remembered. That happens. The horse will drink when it's ready.
Intention without action is wasted. Even worse, you can have only the finest intentions for your actions, but if even one person believes that you are just being mean, then you could still end up with a moderatorial warning or a full-on banishment.



magz
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21 May 2019, 1:40 am

Fnord wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later.
"Yeah, but ... I'm not you!"

:lol:

"I gave you the best advice I could, based on my expiriences and observations.
Now it's your choice what you do with it."
And go do something else.


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Fnord
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21 May 2019, 8:28 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later.
"Yeah, but ... I'm not you!"
"I gave you the best advice I could, based on my experiences and observations. Now it's your choice what you do with it." And go do something else.
That's all well and fine. Now, if they would just stop blaming me for their troubles.



magz
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21 May 2019, 1:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later.
"Yeah, but ... I'm not you!"
"I gave you the best advice I could, based on my experiences and observations. Now it's your choice what you do with it." And go do something else.
That's all well and fine. Now, if they would just stop blaming me for their troubles.

So someone balmes you on their own bad decisions. I'm afraid there's no way to make them stop if they have some mental problem.


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kraftiekortie
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21 May 2019, 1:58 pm

From my viewpoint, it's good to give advice, even though it might not be "taken" right away.

I've had many times when advice I've "refused" have turned out to be the "right" advice in retrospect.



Fnord
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21 May 2019, 2:06 pm

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Another approach is to respond to "yeah, but" with "yeah, but, it works for me." And never budge from your initial advice, even months later.
"Yeah, but ... I'm not you!"
"I gave you the best advice I could, based on my experiences and observations. Now it's your choice what you do with it." And go do something else.
That's all well and fine. Now, if they would just stop blaming me for their troubles.
So someone blames you on their own bad decisions. I'm afraid there's no way to make them stop if they have some mental problem.
I'd hate to think that everyone who ignores me or disagrees with me has a mental problem. It actually makes more sense to believe that common pride inhibits people from doing something for themselves that they should have been doing all along.

It's sorta like when my neighbor told her teen-aged step-daughter that her boyfriend was a troublemaker, and that she should not see him again. Her pride ("You can't tell me what to do!") drove her to continue to see him until he was arrested for GTO with her in the passenger's seat. Two weeks in the juvie lockup and she was begging to come home. Her pride was a liability in a place where brutality counted for more.



magz
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21 May 2019, 2:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
I'd hate to think that everyone who ignores me or disagrees with me has a mental problem.
If someone asks you for advice and then purposefully ignores it, and then blames you, they most likely has some mental problem (depression is quite common).
Fnord wrote:
It actually makes more sense to believe that common pride inhibits people from doing something for themselves that they should have been doing all along.

It's sorta like when my neighbor told her teen-aged step-daughter that her boyfriend was a troublemaker, and that she should not see him again. Her pride ("You can't tell me what to do!") drove her to continue to see him until he was arrested for GTO with her in the passenger's seat. Two weeks in the juvie lockup and she was begging to come home. Her pride was a liability in a place where brutality counted for more.
Sure people don't like it when their pride is hurt. People often deny being wrong, which leads them to most disastrous choices. But I'm not sure if the example is relevant to the topic. Did your neighbor's daughter ask her mother for advice and later blamed her?


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