"How the Finnish survive without small talk"

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starcats
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03 Nov 2018, 10:01 pm

The title of this article made me want to go visit Finland. The content of the article made me irritated at the author because it's about how Finns have to learn small talk, and what could possibly be the reason they don't value small talk because that's the norm for everyone else. Is small talk really required for survival?

Anyone from Finland want to chime in? Anyone from a culture that values concreteness and directness?

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20181016-how-the-finnish-survive-without-small-talk?fbclid=IwAR1lt_-7flsx2HfhJDAHedWbiA9WJyy08lHxmmlCaq9Nb2q9hhZqDQL1axg
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VIDEODROME
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03 Nov 2018, 11:50 pm

It seems I heard some of Germany is like this to? Maybe not quite as extreme.



CockneyRebel
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04 Nov 2018, 12:50 am

VIDEODROME wrote:
It seems I heard some of Germany is like this to? Maybe not quite as extreme.


I've read that on the Internet somewhere.


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04 Nov 2018, 2:14 am

In my younger years I think I would have fit right in in Finnish society, though these days I am acclimated to American society.

In Hindi there is no way to casually thank people so no words are said and the gratitude of the recipient of the small favor or gift is implied. I imagine Finns have their own non verbal understandings between each other.

Different cultures also have different concepts of personal space.

In India there is essentially no concept of personal space...

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No, that is not an isolated incident. Apparently Indians are extremely paranoid about line cutting, so in instances where something important is trying to be obtained, they will stand person to person to avoid leaving room for line cutters.

Americans have a rather large radius of personal space, and fairly complex rules that dictate how close one may get to another person.

For example, at the food court at the mall, the smaller tables sat two people and the larger tables sat four people.

It's inappropriate in American culture to sit down at a table for two and a table for four when a stranger is sitting there. This effectively decreased the seating, as the food court attracts many lone indivuduals from the surrounding businesses. So the mall replaced some of the tables with large bench tables capable of seating eight people. This allows as many as four strangers to sit at the same table without feeling particularly uncomfortable.

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04 Nov 2018, 7:06 pm

Interesting article.

Apparently northern European nations are supposed to be an introvert's paradise. Living in Norway, I can safely say that although we're thankfully far less talky than some other countries, it's far more than I would like, and that the rumor is exaggerated.

Quote:
Finns think if there’s no important topic to discuss, there’s no conversation at all. In fact, one of their national sayings is ‘Silence is gold, talking is silver’.

Small talk outside social situations between close friends is virtually non-existent. Interactions with baristas? Limited to the name of the coffee you want to order. Sitting, walking or standing in a way that requires acknowledging a stranger’s presence? Never. (A meme featuring people standing outside a bus shelter rather than under it is an often-posted joke in Finland to illustrate this point.) If you’re a foreigner, congratulations – you’re probably the loudest person on their often (voluntarily) silent public transport.

Sounds absolutely perfect. Fortunately to some degree I can recognize parts of this (for instance it is def not common to talk to strangers here at bus stops etc, and people do normally look away), but the Finns seem to have perfected it.

Now I almost feel like emigrating.


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05 Nov 2018, 5:11 pm

Fascinating.

A lot of things we think of as "NT" behavior are actually culture-dependent.

What NT's are actually good at is adapting to whatever culture they happen to have been born into.

So, if we can somehow manage to build an autistic-friendly culture, NT's would have no trouble adapting to that, as well.


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starcats
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05 Nov 2018, 9:57 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fascinating.

A lot of things we think of as "NT" behavior are actually culture-dependent.

What NT's are actually good at is adapting to whatever culture they happen to have been born into.

So, if we can somehow manage to build an autistic-friendly culture, NT's would have no trouble adapting to that, as well.


Ha! That's a great idea and true.



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11 Nov 2018, 4:48 am

The Finnish "surviving without small talk" :) also has something to do with the Scandinavian Pause of Speech. Does anyone of you know more about it? (Side note: I am not asking about something I couldn't look up myself :). It's just that sometimes, the personal input (so to say) of some can provide different results than using that engine called Google).



HenryJonesJr
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11 Nov 2018, 5:16 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fascinating.

A lot of things we think of as "NT" behavior are actually culture-dependent.

What NT's are actually good at is adapting to whatever culture they happen to have been born into.

So, if we can somehow manage to build an autistic-friendly culture, NT's would have no trouble adapting to that, as well.


Yes, this is very interesting. Maybe this could be made into a definition of "NT" behavior.



SomewhatGeekyPolyglot
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11 Nov 2018, 7:28 pm

HenryJonesJr wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Fascinating.

A lot of things we think of as "NT" behavior are actually culture-dependent.

What NT's are actually good at is adapting to whatever culture they happen to have been born into.

So, if we can somehow manage to build an autistic-friendly culture, NT's would have no trouble adapting to that, as well.


Yes, this is very interesting. Maybe this could be made into a definition of "NT" behavior.


You two have just been quoted in my Social skills and NT interaction learner's diary :).
In addition, there also is an idea that can at least contribute to making the world (or parts of it) a place where neurodiversity, including autism, is perceived in a much better way than it is the case today:

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=370266&p=8071453#p8071453



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11 Nov 2018, 7:56 pm

The Nordic countries, and to a lesser degree, the UK, have a reputation for being quite reserved/blunt/rude. I think the UK is probably the least that way inclined out of those countries, and Finland is probably the most. I've never been America, but have had friends go and they say that compared to here in the UK, Americans are a hell of a lot more talkative. It's rare for me to go for a walk and speak to anyone I come across (unless I properly know them, like friends/family), and if I go to the shop usually the extent of any interaction is "£xx.xx please" *hands over money* "£xx.xx change, thanks". Whereas again, friends who have been America say that the cashier will usually make small talk with you. I guess it's just a cultural thing really. Small talk isn't a necessity, but it can make social interactions easier if you can master the art.


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27 Feb 2019, 6:04 pm

Western foreigners talk far too much and think it's their right to know everyone else's business when it isn't. I find it easier and far less complex to be reserved and gain respect through listening to the other side of the argument, rather than one sided debates, on how much greater and far prosperous their land is minus other countries wealth.
All you hear on here is how crap our island is compared to theirs and its all showy and rather pathetic mediocracy.
At least we're not all talk and don't try to cover up any PR disasters lurking behind the media or wider scheme of things.
Then, if you're not talking and agreeing all the damn time, there must be something heinously wrong with you.(minus any conditional insult). This forum is so far up its kyber, it doesn't know when to come back down and breathe in the climatic runes of the 21st century. I think the currency is fading behind another bankrupt millionaire who is machine dying its last breath in the pits of future travel diversity and nationalised chaos.
Maybe this topic should be titled, How to survive, without incurring extra measures and being a right pain in the ass.



Prometheus18
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27 Feb 2019, 6:39 pm

Good on the Finns. No wonder the Scandinavians enjoy such a high standard of living.



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02 Mar 2019, 8:01 am

For me, "How The Finnish Survive Without Small Talk" would be better inverted to "How Do Most People Survive Small Talk?"


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02 Mar 2019, 11:53 am

Prudolph wrote:
Whereas again, friends who have been America say that the cashier will usually make small talk with you. I guess it's just a cultural thing really. Small talk isn't a necessity, but it can make social interactions easier if you can master the art.
It's regional.
Northeast - Outwardly polite, but terse and businesslike, especially in cities.
Midwest - Some small talk happens, but both parties know that it's just politeness.
South - Long conversations of small talk, business is borderline secondary.
Florida cities - Strange mishmash of friendliness and terseness.
Rest of US - (not sure)



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06 Mar 2019, 10:15 am

I think there are regional differences inside Finland, too. My experience is that small talk is more common in smaller places than in Helsinki. But you will probably never see it as a foreigner because most Finns don't talk to foreigners without a specific reason in any part of the country. So basically you're safe in Finland :D