What to do about my aggressions? :-/

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Hi everyone. I'm new here. *bows politely*

I am in need of help. This post contains a lot of hate and pride and other negative stuff, so if you're a sensitive reader, don't read it (it doesn't contain gore or anything like that, but very much anger). I take the chance that this might put me on everyone's hate list, but it has to be said. Here's the situation:

I've got enormous problems with aggressions and it constantly gets worse since people keep misinterpreting me. I have a total lack of respect for authority and the rules of social communication NT's use, which is by body language first, contents of words second, which is THE WRONG ORDER!! !! !
So anyway, I'm acting up against the establishment; I'm fighting a war with my environment, even if I have to fight for the rest of my life and against all seven billion of the ordinary PRICKS. I'm totally fed up with the way NTs treat minorities and people who are different in general and see no reason whatsoever to try to cope with something I think would degenerate me from my superior level of objectivity in absolute scepticism. I'm a fan of schizophrenics mainly because of that.
Approximately 30%-60% of every day contains aggressive thoughts for me normally, even though I try desperately to meditate, exercise, eat nutritious food and go to council sessions with my therapist, but nothing at all helps.
All of this, my negativity and hate toward NTs is more than justified since I was picked on all through school by bully as*holes and most other people who found me annoying, abandoned and picked on by my own friends and am bisexual, which is seen as a negative thing in this piece of s**t country so I've been harassed about that too. To me it's only justified to attack someone in vengeance (it's only revenge when you know the intentions of your possible oppressor; otherwise you're starting fight no. 2 instead of finishing no. 1 and become an oppressor yourself, so it's your responsibility to ask about the intentions before you make assumptions and act on them - all of this very obvious, I know, but NTs don't get it and I haven't talked to a lot of aspies about it), not because a person annoys you. Most people annoy me half to death, but I make an enormous effort to keep it to myself in difference to most NTs I've met - i.e. until recently, now that I've gone to war after ENORMOUS amounts of patience from MY side.
What disturbs me is their lack of long term thinking with their social power play; that constant wobbling from oppressor to victim instead of simply accepting everyone else just the way they are and live and let live. That whole system is degenerative from the most potency a person can give out, it diminishes individual creativity and it transforms something good to worthless crap like hate, and all for no good.
Maybe you can imagine the hellish situation I'm in. The fact that no one wants to listen since it brings them down is one of the worst parts. They still expect me to carry it around 24/7 and not be violent so it seems the least I could expect from my environment - even my damn therapist - is to be able to explain my contempt and hate toward NTs. It just seems like the only way out is to strike back and hurt people, but I don't want to sink to their level of laughable inferiority, and strange as it seems I'm still a peace lover who think hurting is wrong.
But something has to happen unless I'm going to either break or kill someone, and I'll sooner do the latter since no one has the right to force me to submission, especially if they're less intelligent and open minded than me. But this world is governed by the complete opposite of what I think: efficiency is for the most intelligent to lead or no authority at all. Most NTs, it seems, instead find aspects like being a good rhetoric or "a person who knows what he/she wants" and so on preferable in authority figures; instead of open mindedness, insightfulness and scepticism etc. In short, people have the wrong idea but they still want me to be like them... MY ASS I will. The day this planet gets rid of homophobes, unprovoced violence and other garbage we don't need, maybe we'll talk about it, but until then, forget it.
The sad part is that when I was a kid I was the person who helped senior citizens across the street, complimented people who seemed down, tried to get outsiders in with the rest , defended weaker persons and good things like that, and now listen to all of this crap, which is all I can think of anymore. I HATE people for ruining a perfectly good attitude and I hate them even more for all the creative and effective things I could've spent my time on if it hadn't been for those IDIOTS and their short sighted, egocentric bs! Nowadays my attitude is to be as much of an as*hole as I can, to mess with people who haven't done anything to me, scare them, threaten them, destroy their possessions, steal things and so on, everything I can to show them my total lack of concideration for any of them, which they showed me more than well when I tried to be nice - I show them what they've taught me with their misbehaviour as a reflection in a mirror, sort of. They deserve it, I don't. That's the only important thing about it. I refuse to see things differently than this because the hate overwhelms my ability to be completely rational, and besides, I think these claims are pretty rational as they are.
If you got to this part without terming me a total idiot and still want to try to help me, do you have any ideas I haven't mentioned here that could help? I should mension that I refuse to take pills since they diminish my creative potential as well. That potential is what's most important to me; in fact the only important thing, I think. I tried weed and that's great, one of the best asset a person with psychological problems can get, I think. (Damn the alcoholic bastards who prohibit it to hell!) And mushrooms are the best psychologists I've ever met. But drugs are not there all the time, life is, so I need something lasting.
Oh yeah, if you haven't guessed it by now, seeing as I am completely anti-authoritative in my attitude, I've gone to war only after many, many, many years of attempts to do things the way NTs want it (for their sake) and be patient with them, and only got s**t on for failing. That's why I'm fed up with the insolent, worthless, short sighted, prejudiced, inferior, pathetic, low-life, moronic, f***ed-up and most of all incredibly ungrateful lunatics. I deserve the Nobel peace price medal for all the aggressions I have every right to take out on lots and lots of people, but haven't done anything about in the interest of peace, which must've taken more energy and effort than Kofi Anan put down for his, and I haven't received so much as a thank you, only contempt because of their prejudiced as*hole opinions, which is a fact that gets me in the red everytime I think about it, like now e.g.
Thank you for reading this far. I apologize for this, but I just don't see any better way than to simply spell it out in plain text. Got any ideas for me now?

Hmmm, I got nothing on what you can do, but I could relate to some of the things you said - but not enough to be alot of help I guess.

I know how that feels. That's of no use to you in getting over your agression, but I can relate to you, at least.

That's a tough expectation. And I don't know what you could do about that either Is there anyone at all who would be willing to listen? Despite what effect it has on them?
I have no idea about what you could do. I hope something comes up so that it isn't as bad and you don't break out in violent acts.
And by the way, I love the name

>that feels. That's of no use to you in getting over your agression,

Yeah, I know. Accepting all that's happened would probably make me crack as well, so I don't see which way is best to go. It can be seen equally as bad to let people have their way. It's like I have a responsibility to do something when I'm so experienced with it, to make a better world for other aspies at least. But then there's the question of limit to strength. I'm a chicken s**t socially. That helps feed the aggressions; that people with worse ideas gets away with it due to primitive force, yuuuck.

>Is there anyone at all who would be willing to listen? Despite what effect it has on them?

My parents listen, but they don't understand and they give me all the wrong responses which only makes me more mad, so that doesn't help. My dad's a practical man who claims that "well, things will always be like that, so just get over it". To me, that's like saying "you don't have any real problems" but every single synapse in my brain tells me the exact opposite. I'd get a lobotomy instantly if it wouldn't diminish my potential.
Friends aren't that loyal and I can't trust friends anymore. I've tried to talk to them but it's hard to open a dialogue at all, and the only thing I've met is attitudes like "well, that's YOUR problem" which makes me think "some friends I have", and I don't want to think like that about them so I just don't do it. The therapist is the only other alternative I can think of, but she once asked if I shouldn't emigrate to some country where things would be easier for me. I still live with my parents because I can't deal with people, so going abroad is out of the question. So I don't put a lot of stock into what she says either.

> have no idea about what you could do.
[...]
And by the way, I love the name

Thanks for trying. It helps to see these problems actually give rise to sympathy after all, so that's a comfort in itself; that there's still life out there. And thanks for the compliment, your own nick isn't too bad either.

Hi, im new here too. I can relate to much of what you said.!I've calmed down considerably ..By venting @ W.P. Its a good place to start!
Reading others post about anger and frustration. , Writing about it, excersise, etc.
I'm fortunate to be able to put the world on hold for now. Being that I'm the most important person in my life..(if I want to survive..and im not egomaniacal.)... Ive taken a break from trying to be social, from watching news on t.v. , from reading newspapers. . i am able to put my feelings about the world, politics, religion, society as a whole on the back burner most of the time....I gotta take care of me for awhile.. I want some joy out of life for a change. I cant take care of anything or anyone til i can do it for me first.
I do take meds. For me the loss of creativity was temporary. Its only a tool.
I think anger is a hyper form of aggression. aggression is a vital component of life, without it there would be nothing. Im learning to lessen the anger and work with aggressing in a way that will benefit me. There are many good suggestions posted here . Check 'em out .the blogs too, Take care.... ttc.

Thanks for the tip, but what is it? Some sub forum here?



Yeah, reading other's posts is a definite thing I'll start doing. It feels great to be surrounded by people who're the same finally. Writing about it doesn't help me anymore. I did that when I was a kid, drew pictures of the mutilated bodies of my tormentors, and it helped then, but it's not nearly enough anymore;



I can't _but_ put the world on hold, and I see that as a good thing so I won't risk becoming a more ordinary person again. I'm more creative in this state of mind.



I feel the same way. Even if you live to help other people you have to be around to do it.



Yeah, that's true. I've been trying to start feeling good about myself, but it doesn't help when no one else seems to and it's hard for me to define myself to anything other than the reactions of my environment. I therefore work mostly on disconnecting from ever caring about ordinary people's opinions again. Mostly they don't say what they mean anyway, so I don't see why they don't just start using monkey chatter while they're at it. In fact, I walked around an entire day interacting with people only using gestures like a Neanderthal would and was almost completely understood. "Man,' I said to myself, 'they really HAVEN'T evolved since the stone age."



I've heard that most SSRI pills permanently damage the serotonin receptors. I'll never risk my creativity for my happiness like that. Hope you won't suffer any of that. Be careful with the medical industry; they're in it for the cash, just like any drug dealer.



That's something I don't think's possible for me. It's simply too strong and uncontrollable to be effective; it's only a burden I want to get rid of, I've always hated my anger. When I was a kid, because it scared other people and now that I've realized they're worthless a*sh*les I can't care less about, because it disrupts my own creative thought process.
I have to face it sometime: if years of meditation practise and several NLP-sessions can't balance it, not much can. If there was a way to harvest the energy extractable from anger I could run a city. So I'm trying to get rid of it altogether.

Thanks for the advice! I'll check around.

Wow.

What a touching post.

I really don't know how to help you. When I get like that I usually try to just let it slide off. E.g. Zen out or something. But, that is a lot of anger you are holding inside...it is sometimes necessary to vent lest the emotion get out of control.

Thanks so much for saying so.



Zen and zazen has been tried thoroughly, but meditation is almost impossible for me due to ADHD/ADD which makes the negative thoughts pop up before I can do anything to avert my mind from them. I've been pushing it for over two years, so I think it's pointless. The aggressions have to go first, otherwise it's impossible, simply. Besides, the people I've talked to about buddhism and meditation seems to indicate that people with heavy psychological issues shouldn't try it, since it takes focus, so meditations is probably a practise for people not to fall into the pit I'm in instead of the other way around. But I'm not sure about that though, so I keep at it. It seems like the most relaxing form of consciousness there is so there's no higher goal for me than enlightenment in life.



Yes, it sure seems that venting is important. A thing I forgot to mention in my initial post is that I partly let people treat me bad. It was a naïve attempt to show by good example that it wasn't necessary to fight; that you could simply let something go and you would be happier for it with less violence in your life and thusly less energy loss on something we don't need, but that only resulted in them seeing me as weak and not many have any sympathy for anyone it seems, so I was simply pushed further and further until I cracked and could hardly talk to people at all. I learned the very, very hard way.
Anyway, all of this has now driven me to a point where I no longer dare give out any aggression anymore, because I don't know what will happen if I do. I couldn't handle taking someone's life or going to jail and rot among the horrible, violent monkeys in there.
The thing that would get me back in my place is to see that I can do something good, that I am a good person, but it's impossible when I have AS since people constantly misinterpret me, so I continue to fall deeper for almost every encounter with a new person. The thing that mostly gets in the way is the fact that I have tons of aggressions and NTs act like they think I would have any reason to take it out on them even though the specific persons haven't done anything to me that would give me any reason to. But they as usual go by body language, something I don't have much control over. I refuse to even try since they're so prematurely obnoxious they don't deserve it.

Hmmmm. I think you're angry at too much. You said it yourself: How can you hate so much and be expected to control it all. You can't, it's unrealistic. There's not a lot I can say, because I'm a big fan of controlling your problems and not taking it out on others, and any advice I give will reflect that belief. You know your problem, but I didn't see you giving any leeway to the idea of tolerance. You're lying to yourself, saying that your hate is justified, that all 7 billion ordinary people are pricks, that you have a superior level of objectivity. I think that it is apparent, from your post, that because of your anger, you're having a very hard time being objective. Wouldn't you agree? Sure, people do some questionable things, they can be pricks, they can bully, subdue and intimidate, they can lie and they can cheat. But you also have the power to dismantle those questionable activities, and stop them from doing it to you. You've said you have no respect for authority and the rules of social communication, and that you are anti-authoritive in your attitude, but you obviously still play by their rules. For all that s**t behavior, you still have to play the part of victim for it to succeed. By my autistic nature, I don't allow that behavior to develop. I never give the response they expect and anticipate to continue their cycle. Unfortunately, that autistic nature in person-to-person relationships irl does not translate across onto the internet, so I inevitably piss everyone off online, but that's another matter. By staying quiet, never trying to socialize, not talking except to give information, they don't have any opportunities.
Think of it as a battle for energy. All forms of social interaction are a fight for energy. When someone dominates another, they force their victims to give up their energy to them, so they feed off it. Shy people get energy by forcing people to give attention to them because of their quietness. Inquisitive people get energy by demanding questions, either intimidatingly or by forcing them to give attention. And so on and so forth. By stopping the other people from trying to get their energy in a certain manner, by refusing them your energy, and by not taking their energy when you do, you stop them from controlling you. I find impassivity to be very good at that.
As I said, I don't have a lot to say, but hey, I like your name, too. I'm curious as to where you got it from, if you don't mind asking. You may recognize my name, too, heh. Three guesses as to why Astarael likes your name too...

Seriously the only way you are going to get over your aggression is either magically being vindicated in all the perfect ways in your imagination. Or coming to peace with the fact that people are stupid, arrogant, ignorent idiots and no amount of personal rage is going to help that. When someone is stupid and ignorent, rather you should feel pity that they are so lost.

WP is shorthand for 'Wrongplanet'. It just means the forums on here. And yep, venting here can be an excellent idea.

Getting sufficient excercise can be helpful. It won't solve the problem, but going for a run when you start feeling aggravated will at least get rid of some of the negative energy.

Also, try not to be too prejudiced against NTs. They're not always a nice breed of people, but there are some individuals who are ok. It's just a case of finding them, and taking deep breaths when around the rest of 'em.

Yes, right on the spot. I guess I should really write that I have always felt much more objective than the people who made me feel this way, so my hate against them - and they're everywhere, since we aspies can't seem to fit in anywhere with NTs no matter their personal attributes - in the end makes me feel like everyone, EVERYONE are against me. And the core of the anger may be, as I believe, that when I hate I do it after much consideration, so it feels like my hate is very much justified, but it's still treated by NTs as something that shouldn't be exhibited, even though I can see their unjustified emotions going out in all directions all the time. They can channel their anger better, so they tell me I can't be that angry as I get. Well, where's the damn off button for emotions in that case? I mean, how can they expect such an impossible thing from anyone?
If most of the 7 billion people on the planet are NTs and will misinterpret me and hate me if I got to know them (as one after another have so far even though I try hard to be self critical), then even though it's a vast stereotyping it's arbitrarily something truthful. My life will always be hard no matter to what country I move, what city, whatever, there're NTs everywhere and they're always prejudiced and it will always feel unacceptable and the result will always be that I become suppressed or an obnoxious as*hole myself, which has sometimes happened when I've finally had enough.



To me it's like this philosophically: any person should've understood from maybe age 5 or so that they don't have any _right_ to attack an innocent person, so if I have to fight to defend myself, that's an unacceptable waste of energy I should've been able to put on something I choose for myself. So this is one example of what I mean by my protest behaviour. THEY SHOULD REALIZE!! !! !
I guess I protest against the thermodynamic situation of the universe. But if the universe is probabilistic, then it could be governed by our personal choices, so that doesn't have to mean it's an impossible fight. It may be that circumstances go as they do when a critical mass has formed among people. If I try hard enough I might make a global change. Want to help me take over the world? =)



But my problem comes when they either yell at me for some mistake - mistakes are by definition not something you can blame a person for, so taking scoldings for them is unacceptable in my book (an attitude I've grown since I really can't take scoldings: my brain shuts off and retracts into primate thinking: run or attack) - or use me as a tool for getting respect themselves. I am my own possession, not for someone else to use. I decide if they have that right or not. They don't have a right to even try. Therefore it's unacceptable and I refuse to cope with that form of social interaction as well.
What pisses me off is much more the reason a person has than what actually happens in practice. You can say almost anything or do lots of things many would react badly to to me, but I still wait until I know for sure that your intention is to hurt me in some way before you know whether or not you have that right. That's about the only principle that gets me off.
NTs on the other hand are of this attitude: "that guy's an idiot"
me: "why?"
NT: "because he does x"
me: "how do you know it's intended to piss you off? It might be a) a mistake b) a joke or c) something that person finds okay to do and have done to him/her."
"NT: "Bu-bu-but, you can't DO that!"
me: "who says you can't? are you a god or something?"
NT: "everyone else do that with the intention b3"
me: "so you don't really know that person has intention b3 with action x then? and you still call him an idiot? have you tried telling him YOU THINK action x is wrong no matter what intention you have with it?"
NT: "no, of course not! that's obvious!"
me: "why?"
NT: "everyone else do, like i said."
me: "you mean to tell me that you base what's right and wrong on what most people do?"
NT: "of course. what else?"
me: "your own interpretation of what's most effective in any given situation."
NT: "but how should i know what's right or wrong?"
me: "didn't you just claim to know that by calling him an idiot?"
NT: "Doh!"



But by that the personality isn't allowed to be lived out so they force you into a mental prison. I don't want to go quiet into that long night of the spirit. My life is about living out myself, not fitting in with idiotic schemes of how things work according to backward idiots who wants everything calm and efficient to the cost of joy. Nothing wrong with tranquility and efficiency, but the point of life isn't to be efficient; we're efficient so that we can have joy, not the other way around. They've changed priorities on this in a very irrational way, to my mind.
When I started thinking about AS and all this a few years ago, most people I conversed with who had the condition spoke apologizing about their eccentricity, but I think it's a positive thing that should be used, not trained away. So many people, it seems, see their strange behaviours as something definitely negative just because of the fact that it's strange. To me it's almost the opposite: if you have something no one else has, that makes you special, fit with a special ability you could and should work with that no one else can. Maybe you can turn it into something others can have use for as well? But of course, they won't allow that, because it's not standard. That's what I see as backward thinking: to not let the world change as it wants to, to see every new aspect as a negative thing. NTs are who's most afraid of the strange and new. I see it like this: there're tons of idiots in the world but very few geniuses. Being strange in a creative way is almost certainly something positive that should never be suppressed, but outlived to its fullest extent. The idiots would agree with this if they realized that they enjoy the comforts genius creates. By themselves they couldn't have built anything more complicated than the wheel, if even that. And I'm not saying I'm a genius; I just emphasize more with them.
One thing someone here mentioned that made me remember I felt that way too, is that we aspies aren't allowed to talk about what we want, because it scares people to hear it. They stick their heads in the sand and hide away, even though what we're talking about is out there anyway.
It's like "Hey, it doesn't matter if it rains acid on me, okay, because that's normal - this weather is normal; don't tell me this weather isn't normal; it's normal dammit!"
Aspie: "It's not normal."
NT: *mind explodes from the overload of realizing the truth*.



Yes, this was a very good advice. Thank you. It was a bit different than I use to see it. I see it almost as that, but more capitalistic: I own my energy. You can't steal it just as you can't steal my TV or car. You have to ask. And I don't see questions as theft in that respect; they're merely used to get information, something a person keeps even when it gives it away, to simply share it, divide it, multiply it.
The problem with our world though, is that it's governed by secrecy, so information is also seen as something that should cost, and maybe that may be a cause for why we feel like we have no outlets for our anger: we build up more anger because there's no easy way to exceed, which all of us want to do.
Thankfully, this will probably change now with Internet and everything. I hope for a new world order from it. Personally I give all my creativity away for free: I have galleries with full size images of what I draw open for the public to copy or use any way they wish and stories I write too. If I make someone happy with it or if they think I have something new they want to see more of, they can feed me the tools I need to do that, like sending money for food and pencils or something. That form of transaction is truthful and good imo; but I know, it's also naïve at this early stage of its development. It's the other way around with the corporate society where you SHOULD lie in your advertisements about your sh***y products which are only made to give as little of yourself as possible and get as much as you can. A world governed like that can only go downwards, is my belief. Negativity has a way of spreading faster and wider than positivity. We should hold on to the latter as much as we can; so many of us have given up. Look at me e.g. I feel bipolar or schizophrenic since I refuse to accept myself as a person of hate even though I know I have hate all over me. I try desperately to kill it without hurting anyone, but the only thing that kills it is to see that it has an effect on others, so that I know it's not silly of me to have all this hate, so I know it's not just a figment of my imagination, which people who misinterpret me act as if it was. I.e. people who don't understand the aspie mind.



I've used that way of communication too. Sometimes it even pisses people off, because they want that emotional reaction. The perfect weapon against them unless you're like me and my emotions show no matter how much I try to hide them since I have such strong ones; they can shock me into a reaction.



No, I found this very helpful, so thank you very much!
Well, I better tell you about my name then. Astarael told me she'd seen it in a book I'd never heard about, so it's not from that. It's from a book called "Illuminatus! Trilogy" by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea. It's an underground cult book about conspiracies. Not a fact book, but a crazy fictional story ironizing all conspiracy theories around the world. I warmly recommend it; it's got lots of humour and crazy ideas an aspie or autist probably would like, to my estimation. Robert Anton Wilson is a great author with many interesting ideas btw. Worth looking into. I recommend Prometheus Rising if you're at all interested in psychology.
But what's the name of the book you're thinking of? It sounds interesting since it seems to be popular here.

Ah, thanks! I WILL! YEAAH!! !! KIIIIILLLLLLL!! !! !! !! !! !!



Yes, I do that, but I have routines I feel I have to follow for it to work, so that poses a problem. It's annoying for me to break habits.



Yes, I've found some of them who are. A real bunch of angels in fact. Everyone comments on how good people they are, but I feel like my problems pose a problem for them, so being around them degenerates them and that's not acceptable, so it's about as frustrating as when I have to suffer attacks from others. Realizing that I didn't even cut it among them felt like the final blow in communication with NTs for me. I've given up every attempt now. And like you said, they're rare, but I would rather say they're Rare<tm> 2000 deluxe++.

Thanks for the tips!

Yes, that's true, but I'm looking for ways to accept it. And it's not that they're stupid, clumsy (I'm clumsy), nothing other than the fact that they act out a faulty behaviour knowing it to be wrong, taking it out on me and others. I.e. mistakes are okay, if someone yells at me once or twice, it's almost nothing, but if I see such insolent behaviour being taken as acceptable, that they take advantage of me, then it's too much.
The reason I can't accept it is because I've had too much, so to me everytime there is a quarrel or fight I associate it with my very bad memories of where that's leading, even though it in practise doesn't necessarily lead at all that far, but only short enough for me to definitely be able to accept and tell someone off when they're being condescending or something. Since I didn't make the idiots stop, because I was adamant that they should realize it themselves since it was unprovoked attacks (the only thing I see as universally unacceptable), I now have a very hard time trying to see that I can make anyone stop it, so I am simply angry and reminded of the hellishness of the entire situation every time I'm faced with even a little quarrel. That's seriousness for you. In short: I don't believe in my own ability to make a change at all, but I do believe I'm a member of those with the right ideas, so it shouldn't be like that.
The thing is too, that my own perception of what's good or bad is very much fluctuating - there isn't anything you can't do except attack innoent individuals. So since I refuse to go by my prejudice and tell people when I see action x or y happening "you can't do that!" because I don't want to fall to their level and become like them, I can't make them understand. The circus ride continues.
And I really CAN'T make them understand either. I have explained how this worked, but got laughed at by IDIOTS!! !



Yeah, rationally I know that, but emotionally I've never been able to accept the fact that even if they are wrong they still act as if they were right. That thing I wrote somewhere in this thread about it being unacceptable to act before you know is the reason for that.

I can't feel pity for people who seem to have more power than me. If they can suppress me it seems very much like they are superior. But it's all a lie; they're inferior and understand less and can do less and are less adaptive etc. They have less of all things with positive connotation, but then they should act like it too. The fact that we aspies seem to be declared idiots by idiots because of our lacking social skills. A professor in quantum physics is probably not as sociable as a clerk in a grocery store, so I really don't get how they think. But they still act as if they did, and I am still diminished and put down by them, not respected and so on, even though I deserve that, so it's not hard, it's HAAAAAAAARD to get by this feeling of powerlessness which leads to hate and other negativity.

It's been my experience, that they feel the same way as you described. They also feel your emotions are unjustified, especially when it's directed at them. Most especially, because a lot of your anger stems from the actions of others.


How do you define innocent? Innocent is something that changes from person to person. You consider yourself innocent, and that people are feeling unjustified emotions towards you, like anger, and attacking you. Now look at yourself from their view, remembering that even when we are in a neutral state, people invariably read us as somewhat angry. Can you imagine how they would read you when you ARE angry? They also think themselves innocent, and your emotions unjustified, and the cycle continues.


Just like innocence, rights are relative. But personally, I think deciding who has the right to criticize you is a bad idea. Either you decide they don't and you get angry, or if you decide they do you feel bad. I find ignoring it completely and deciding it is completely irrelevant to you would be much better. That is not to say you ignore it in such a way that they realize it is being ignored, or you risk it further escalating, as you said.


Well, there's the inevitable problem with my advice. You're a different personality type, you don't have what I call autistic personality. That is to say, you have some aspects of egocentricity, but not what I think to be the most valuable thing autistics have: living in the moment, as yourself, without the concepts of right or wrong, and enjoying every moment simply, without questioning everything. Awareness is truly a terrible thing.

That wasn't the book I was thinking of, but I have heard of it. Was actually planning to read it sometime, since it was recommended by a friend of mine in this philosophy group we used to argue in. He reckoned it was packed with philosophy, but you make it sound not so. The book Astarael and I were thinking of is actually a trilogy, called A Requiem for Homo Sapiens. It is also packed with philosophies and mathematical ideas. Malaclypse is the name of a Warrior-Poet, Asta's favorite characters, who recite poems to their victims, and torture them to their moment of the possible. Danlo, as you may guess, is the name of my favorite character in the book.

Anyways, ciao.

Do you mean as in I take out all the anger I've collected on one person, or that I yell at an innocent person? I guess you mean the latter, since I've explained the situation including my position on unprovoked attacks, but I just wanted to make sure.



Then you're talking prejudice. I'm talking about intentions. I'd not attack a person who I didn't know - i.e. after I had asked for its intentions - was guilty of an attack against me. I don't go by action, only intention. Like you say, anyTHING can be acceptable, but not any intention.
Lately I've been really angry and didn't care about making an effort not to show it as a protest against prejudice toward that sort of thing. In my mind those are aggressions not directed at anyone else so no one has any right to make something of it except by asking me to try to look happier, but they are as usual prejudiced and think that the anger showed nearby them is going to go out over them; even when they haven't done anything to me they think that.



It seems we need to clarify a few things. By criticizing, do you mean simply stating something negative about a person as information for it to take into concideration for the criticizer's sake, or do you mean as in scolding? To me it's totally appropriate to point out something you think is an error in a person as long as you stick to simply informative intentions, not letting any anger out because the person annoys you - one is an attack, the other is information every person who is around other people imo have a responsibility to adhere to so as to respect its environment.
Here's my philosophy on this: all of us are exactly equally valuable and worthy and deserve exactly as much respect (including micro organisms, plant life, animals and aliens etc.). It's like this since none of us can say with universal absoluteness what would be best for everyone to strive for, so everyone have exactly as much right to live themselves out just the way they want as anyone else. Therefore we can only go by Occham's razor and decide that everyone have an equal value instead of power playing and acting as if we were above or below one another when it comes to the freedom of being the way we want to be. Since that is the case then, we have to ask first, shoot second, if shoot at all. If people followed these rules we could say goodbye to wars today.



This is the core; I don't think I can ever do that. It's important with respect for me and I know I deserve that because of things like intelligence, being nice, positive and effective things like that. And people give respect to the lowest of the low, thos who can only destroy instead of creating, and they don't even get that they in the end will make a worse world for themselves in doing that. Sooner or later someone will attack THEM and the risk of that is greater if they promote destructive behaviour and let idiots think they're doing a good thing. MAN this is hard to accept, but you're right; I'm being naïve. It's going to take time to make my emotions realize that, though. :-/



But I would say you're aware and not me. I envy your type of mind.



Ah, but it IS packed with philosophical ideas, but it's also a "crazy" story. I think you should still read it. Thanks for the tip yourself!

That's not what I was saying. You were talking about seeing people's emotions as unjustified, and uncontrolled. I was merely pointing out how you can also appear to do that exact thing.


I'm not talking prejudice. I'm not talking about intentions, either. I'm talking about perceived threat. Remember what you were talking about re fight or flight response to scoldings? Their intention isn't to initiate that response. They don't consciously calculate a statement and determine what intention is behind it, not as a rule. For you, the scoldings initiated that. Why should NT's be more rational? Why shouldn't the perceived threat they feel emanating from you trigger their response mechanism? Short answer: it does. I don't believe you go by intention any more than they do. It's not in our nature as humans. You think of it as prejudice, but it is only human nature. Whatever intention you read into something someone does, whatever emotion you read into their actions, you are asserting your own belief, your own prejudice on it. You shouldn't be angry at them for that, just as you think they shouldn't be angry at you.


By criticizing, I meant scolding. Scolding has it's place. Instead of getting angry at receiving a scolding, unintentional error or not, why can't you just accept it as a lesson? That's the purpose scolding serves. To teach you that something shouldn't be done, or that something is wrong, and to help you avoid making it again. I don't think it is a reason that you should get angry about. Your philosophy is ideallistic. Even though we are equal, that doesn't mean scolding doesn't have it's place. And that doesn't mean that what we achieve in this life, doesn't afford some people a higher level of respect and worth. Would you consider a great humanitarian worthy of more respect than a rapist? Would you say that a rapist has a right to do what he does? There is no right, there is only power.
Using your example of Occham's Razor, I would say assume noone ever tries to be mean, or insult, or put you down. They don't mean to, they're just playing out their power plays and energy exchange. So give them slack, refuse to get angry, and remember that they're only human.


Lol, I'm just aware that awareness is what makes the world a bad place.