Induced Autism in the service of the State?

Page 1 of 1 [ 7 posts ] 

vits3k
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 38

25 Oct 2005, 7:53 pm

I recently started reading Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky, which among other things features "Focus", an artificially induced condition similar to Autism or Aspergers, in which skilled individuals are turned into near-automatons focused on that skill alone, in the service of the State :shock:

His stuff is an interesting and fun read, usually. He's also the author of True Names, a story from 1980 that prefigures both the Internet and The Matrix.



Klytus
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 259

26 Oct 2005, 5:16 pm

Is that supposed to be a nightmare vision of the future: a place populated by aspies? Well, as an aspie myself, that make me feel just great - NOT.

Maybe I am being hard on the author. Does Vinge actually mention autism / Asperger's by name in the story?

By the way, to my mind the author doesn't sound like much of a visionary.
Individuals being "turned into near automatons in the service of the State" sounds like a good description of Communism to me.



Endersdragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,662

26 Oct 2005, 5:42 pm

In one of the sequals to my favorite book (Enders Game if you couldnt tell) it talks about a race with OCD and genious like intelligence. I think "disorders" are quite common for writers to talk about in books as they could be ways to make people complient while advancing society.


_________________
"we never get respect ... never a fair trial
[swearing removed by lau] ... as long as we smile"
Im tired of smiling.

Vote for me in 2020 :-D


vits3k
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 38

26 Oct 2005, 10:39 pm

Klytus wrote:
Is that supposed to be a nightmare vision of the future: a place populated by aspies? Well, as an aspie myself, that make me feel just great - NOT.

Maybe I am being hard on the author. Does Vinge actually mention autism / Asperger's by name in the story?

Individuals being "turned into near automatons in the service of the State" sounds like a good description of Communism to me.


Quite so.

Aspergers/Autism is not mentioned directly at all. And the practice in question is presented as monstrous, imposed by monstrous members of a thoroughly tyrannical society.

The nightmare comes from the involuntary nature of the phenomenon.

He actually does work in some good words about such 'focused' people when they occur naturally.

Hopefully this presents Vinge in a slightly different light :)



Happeh
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 4 Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 374

06 Nov 2005, 7:27 am

vits3k wrote:
I recently started reading Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky, which among other things features "Focus", an artificially induced condition similar to Autism or Aspergers, in which skilled individuals are turned into near-automatons focused on that skill alone, in the service of the State :shock:

His stuff is an interesting and fun read, usually. He's also the author of True Names, a story from 1980 that prefigures both the Internet and The Matrix.


All fiction stories are based on some kind of reality.

Did you ever wonder why America seemed to be so good at technological innovation?

What if it was because someone purposefully altered people so that they would think in a particular way? Like a machine? Did you ever wonder about the connection between Stephen Hawkings theories, and his extreme physical debility?

That is what someone did. Rasing people is just like raising dogs. You get rid of the ones with qualities you don't want. You punish them when they do something you don't like. Pretty soon they do everything you tell them. You want a viscious dog, people know exactly what to do to make viscious dogs. You want nice dogs, people know exactly what to do to make nice dogs.

It is rather remarkable to consider changing people to suit your needs, and to have the people in question think they are fine and normal and never realize what has happened.



Klytus
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 259

07 Nov 2005, 4:40 pm

Happeh wrote:
All fiction stories are based on some kind of reality.

Did you ever wonder why America seemed to be so good at technological innovation?

What if it was because someone purposefully altered people so that they would think in a particular way? Like a machine? Did you ever wonder about the connection between Stephen Hawkings theories, and his extreme physical debility?


And who on earth is behind this conspiracy?
Why do conspiracy theorists want to make everything so ridiculously complex? Why do they want to believe that the West, the most advanced and free civilization in history, is so much more sinister than it is?
Here's a simple explanation for Steven Hawking's disability: nature.
Here's a hint: if you ever decide to go around telling disabled people they're part of some sinister government experiment, some of them might not welcome your advice.

By the way, Steven Hawking is British, even if he "talks" with an American accent.
Do you think that he thinks like a machine just because he talks through one? Or maybe that's just your view of scientists.

I remember seeing the geneticist, Steve Jones, speaking on TV once explaining Hawking's celebrity status. He said that Hawking fitted the public's stereotype of scientists, that is, "all brain, and not quite fully human". Unfortunately, I think his view of the public's prejudice was pretty much spot-on.



Mithrandir
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 614
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

07 Nov 2005, 10:21 pm

The scary thing isn't being in the machine.
The scary thing is going to be in Genetics and advancement enough to genetically engineer a person.
Can you imagine choosing what colour eyes your child will have?
Can you imagine cloning people?

The scary part about machines is that they will surpass humans in the nex 40 years.
Lets hope that the Department of Defence values loyalty more then weapons.
An AI that is not programmed with morality/loyalty to the political system is dangerous.
Especially in the wrong hands...