Orlando - Who is responsible?

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Thank you for the clarification. I stand corrected. I've recently been reading some mandates in the hadith, and also on how people commonly interpret it. Especially in middle easter countries where Islam is mainstream.


Yes, I could not think of the title at the time. And actually, you misspelled it. It's "Imam".



I certainly hope so. I also am against killing people for their sin, for that matter, but AM in favor of showing mercy.And I used to be in favor of the death penalty for murder. However, I believe our justice system is too corrupt to not put the wrong person to death (false convictions, and stuff... happens a lot). So I changed my stance at least for this nation.[/quote]


I used to be transsexual, and in favor of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. Because of my newfound faith in Christ, and upon hearing from God in prayer, I decided to live as my biological sex, and deny homosexual tendencies I might encounter in my own mind. Some people do not accept me because of that choice I made.


It is rather judgemental and presumptuous to make this statement. Should you not rather hope for others to consider a little contructive correction? Have you know patience? I hope you are not implying that I am an "Islamaphobe". (You would be horribly mistaken) I am not afraid of people of the Islam faith, nor am I opposed to working with, interacting with, or befriending those who are. Phobia means fear, by the way.

However, I do admit that I was wrong in saying that the Quran specifically commands people to kill gay people. I agree that if I am going to talk about the Quran, then I should at least know what it actually says. That's fair. After all, I would want somebody to correctly portray the Scripture that I read. As Scripture says:

James 1:19 - My dearly loved brothers, understand this: Everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger,


So my apologies for being too quick to speak in regards to Qur'anic scripture. Now I am understanding that Muslim tradition also adheres also to the Hadith, and is not isolated to Quran only. So yes, the Hadith, from my reading here, quotes the following:

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.

Bukhari (72:774) - "The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman.

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

So those are the facts. There are many Muslims who do horrible violence to homosexual and effeminate men (of which I formerly was). And there are many Muslims who don't. In this country, fortunately, the majority of Muslims are peaceful and go about their daily lives just like anyone.

I have a question Ganondox. You seem to think of me "homophobic" and "Islamiphobic" (at least that's the impression I get). But woudn't that make Islam a "homophobic" religion since even the Quran at least speaks against homosexuality? And since the Hadith supports the notion of killing homosexuals.

In this passage from the Quran, homosexuality is called "transgression", which is basically a "sin":

Quran (26:165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

And the Quran indeed does refer to the practices of Sodom and Gomorrah (which one of those acts that were condemned was homosexual gang rape).

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

Where it states, "practice your lusts on men in preference to women", this is obviously referring to homosexuality, as the other is contextually speaking to men in this passage.

So bottom line, both the Quran and Hadith condemn the act homosexuality. Does this make Islam scripture and tradition responsible for the Orlando shootings? According to your position, it does.