Connection between Asperger's and gender dysphoria

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Jack184
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21 Jun 2016, 7:39 am

Hi everyone, I'm Jack, 14 years old, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and I've been struggling with my gender identity for about six months now. I was born male, and never gave it much thought, but as puberty hit I think I gradually started to get the sense that something was wrong. Now I don't know what my gender identity is, but I feel like being a guy doesn't fit at all, and the dysphoria is really starting to annoy me, along with it not really helping my depression that I'm going through at the moment.

So, would you say there's a connecting between this and being on the spectrum? There's certainly a small body of scientific evidence that suggests there's a link. A lot of it sounds like it might have to do with the Extreme Male Brain theory in females, but I was born male, and I feel like I'm somewhere between non-binary and a girl (I really don't know yet). It kind of bothers me, though, that for most of my life, I kind of have been more traditionally masculine, even if it has been in a less "macho" kind of way.

Any thoughts?

Best wishes,
Jack



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21 Jun 2016, 11:36 pm

Hi, Jack!

There was a study with solid methodology not too long ago that analyzed various gendered attributes, both physical (such as bone ratios) and behavioral (like certain preferences). It found both male and female autistics as groups had certain traits that were strongly "neutral". But interestingly, they were different attributes for each gender.

Every person I've known who does not fit into a socially assumed binary has to figure out where & how they feel comfortable in a world that expected something different of them. It often means sorting out things like what they thought they should feel verses what they actually do feel, or who they thought they were supposed to be, or things they were supposed to like, and so on. But please remember that it's okay to just be your own mix, to not take on a particular label unless you want to do so. And, it's okay to be "neutral" or "undifferentiated", too. :)

There are plenty of people here who can answer questions, some who probably went through something like what you are struggling with! :D


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22 Jun 2016, 12:09 am

Welcome Jack!
Sorry to hear that you are feeling depressed.
To me your post sounds impressively mature for someone as young as you.
I am not sure how strongly gender issues coincide with aspergers but it sounds like there is a very wide range among the posts I have read in these forums.
Though it was a long time ago it still remains very strongly in my memory how I felt at your age. I was defined by "I don't know."
I think that adolescence is the time to start to learn and define yourself. Don't feel rushed. Take all the time you need and want. Perhaps giving yourself permission to be in a state of indecision may take away some of the annoyance and stress of not knowing. I have found that I need to redefine myself on a regular basis throughout life as I cointinue to learn about myself. Don't let anyone rush you into a category because they want a certain result for you. If you feel comfortable, try out various gender identities and experiment with what feels right for you?



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22 Jun 2016, 10:07 am

I'm not sure what you're asking here exactly but there does seem to be a connection between the two. I know I have known a disproportionately high number of gender-diverse people who are autistic.
If it's relevant at all many gender-diverse people presented traditionally gendered for some of their lives, especially when young. Many people, myself included, also went through a phase of being "hyper" male or female as youngsters to try and allay the sorts of feelings you're describing and convince themselves and everyone else they were really their birth gender.
This is the problem with the traditional transgender "narrative," which asserts that you have to have known all along and presented in a deviant fashion since a young age. It's slowly coming out that this is not the case for many people. Adolescence is a good time to work these things out. If you're not sure where you fit in or how you feel about it all, speaking to a supportive person such as an LGBT friendly school counsellor might be a good start. :)


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Edenthiel
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22 Jun 2016, 5:20 pm

C2V wrote:
I'm not sure what you're asking here exactly but there does seem to be a connection between the two. I know I have known a disproportionately high number of gender-diverse people who are autistic.
If it's relevant at all many gender-diverse people presented traditionally gendered for some of their lives, especially when young. Many people, myself included, also went through a phase of being "hyper" male or female as youngsters to try and allay the sorts of feelings you're describing and convince themselves and everyone else they were really their birth gender.
This is the problem with the traditional transgender "narrative," which asserts that you have to have known all along and presented in a deviant fashion since a young age. It's slowly coming out that this is not the case for many people. Adolescence is a good time to work these things out. If you're not sure where you fit in or how you feel about it all, speaking to a supportive person such as an LGBT friendly school counsellor might be a good start. :)

Trying so hard to not veer too far OT, but...
Zhou - the same one of "Zhou, et all 1994" fame, who showed that a.) brains are sex-dimorphic and b) they match identity not assigned gender - has not been idle. They recently started publishing papers on the gene expressions that take place at puberty. Like other dimorphic creatures, we have an immature and an adult form, with a period of drastic change between. Anyway, their recent work is just starting to potentially show why some people are "okay" enough with their assigned identity until puberty & then everything falls apart and they realize it's a bad fit.

And that's in addition to people who knew they weren't quite right all along but as you mentioned tried oh so hard to meet expectations so they too could be loved.


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muntanmion
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25 Jun 2016, 6:09 pm

Jack, this article was published online a couple of months ago. It's the longest journalistic piece I've encountered about being both trans and on the spectrum.
https://spectrumnews.org/features/deep- ... n-genders/

I saw this important bit of news a couple of days ago:http://autisticadvocacy.org/2016/06/autistic-self-advocacy-network-lgbt-groups-release-statement-on-needs-of-trans-autistic-people/

There is also this excellent podcast interview with an LGBT psychiatrist in New York City who specializes in working with gender variant/trans kids and their families, and has also done research about the correlation between autism and gender variance:
http://ackerman.podbean.com/e/the-acker ... anssen-md/

There was also this workshop at the Philadelphia Trans Health Conference which happened just a couple of weeks ago. One of its organizers is here on Wrongplanet. I attended this workshop, and was surprised and pleased to see at very least 50, maybe over 60 people there:
https://www.mazzonicenter.org/trans-hea ... sion-group

There seems to be growing awareness about people like us who are both on the autistic spectrum and trans* (trans/gender variant/nonbinary/genderqueer etc.) I find more and more blogs, vlogs, online articles, confirmations from peers at support groups I attend and from therapists I've psychotherapists I've spoken with. I now know for sure that we are not isolated anomalies— there are many of us, many more than I had imagined just a few months ago.


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25 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

Jack184 wrote:
Hi everyone, I'm Jack, 14 years old, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and I've been struggling with my gender identity for about six months now. I was born male, and never gave it much thought, but as puberty hit I think I gradually started to get the sense that something was wrong. Now I don't know what my gender identity is, but I feel like being a guy doesn't fit at all, and the dysphoria is really starting to annoy me, along with it not really helping my depression that I'm going through at the moment.

So, would you say there's a connecting between this and being on the spectrum? There's certainly a small body of scientific evidence that suggests there's a link. A lot of it sounds like it might have to do with the Extreme Male Brain theory in females, but I was born male, and I feel like I'm somewhere between non-binary and a girl (I really don't know yet). It kind of bothers me, though, that for most of my life, I kind of have been more traditionally masculine, even if it has been in a less "macho" kind of way.

Any thoughts?

Best wishes,
Jack


Regarding the EMB theory in females thing, at least one study actually found that while women on the spectrum have a relatively more masculine brain, the males had a relatively more feminine brain. I've seen the study branded in two different ways, either a refutation of the extreme male brain theory and instead arguing autism is more related to gender dysphoria, or that autism manifests differently in men or women. :P


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Jack184
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26 Jun 2016, 9:22 am

Hi everyone, and thanks so much for all your support. The studies pointing to a connection between autism and gender dysphoria definitely suggest that something is up with it and that I'm not alone. I'm still trying to figure it all out. I think my feeling at the moment when it comes to pinning down my gender identity is that I would feel more comfortable in a female body, but I would still have to put up with all kinds annoying social norms which I can't stand regardless of gender. I know that my struggle with gender identity is part of a much bigger issue to do with feeling really out of place and uncomfortable, but hopefully I'll be able to figure something out.

Kind regards, Jack.