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mrspock
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11 Oct 2018, 1:31 pm

Pick a game you think was truly great and tell why.

My first choice: Adventure (Atari 2600). This was WAY ahead of its time and was an early example of the find your own way by yourself quest involving the use of found gadgets and other stuff in order to capture a mystical prize. Nintendo would reproduce this a million times over in the Zelda franchise.

This game was all the more incredible for being written for a 4 bit dinosaur of a council system. At the time this game was made, nearly all games had score boards (the only way of documenting progress and achievement in a mindless shooter like Space Invaders or Defender) and a time limit was also common since many were arcade ports and the goal of an arcade cabinet game was to force the player to keep spending quarters on it. Adventure had neither of these.


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11 Oct 2018, 3:26 pm

Traveller -- "Science Fiction Adventure In The Far Future"

A tabletop role-playing game set in a star-faring empire about 3600 years into the future. It uses a dice-paper-pencil format, with one of the players as the Referee. The dice are six-sided, thus simplifying rolls for combat, skills, and tasks. An 8 or greater on two dice means success, less means failure.

The game is open-framework, meaning that with a little tweaking, the rules can be applied to any science-fiction milieu in literature, television, or cinema. Characters do not advance in level, but may acquire wealth and property and improve skills along the way.

Character generation begins at age 18 with the character being drafted or enlisted into one of several careers, and progresses in 4-year terms. During each term, skills are earned, experiences are gained, and contacts can be made. Play begins when the character retires from his or her career to go free-lance.

Most important of all, players interact with each other in the same location face-to-face. The game requires no electronic devices or Internet connections, only dice, paper, pencils, and an interest in science-fiction role-playing.

(Pizza and beverages are optional. :wink: )

Link to Wikipedia Article



Misery
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13 Oct 2018, 9:49 pm

I would have a very hard time picking any specific favorites here.... I can think of so many examples. I'll try to think of a few for various consoles:

Atari 2600:

Space Invaders - this is just a good example of a port done right. It did a good job in showing off the capabilities of the console, but also it showed how a developer could take a pre-existing concept, and add to it. The core gameplay was fully intact, but on top of that you had a bazillion different variations to choose from. It also sped up the action in rather subtle ways, making for a more engaging experience. The 2600 was very good at ports in general (even if some had to be missing out on some features) and this is one of the best examples.

I could honestly list so very, very many examples from that one console. Some of which were fairly popular... like Jungle Hunt... and others, most people have never heard of, such as Turmoil (one of my personal favorites).


Arcade:

Robotron 2084 - Absolute brilliance. The twin-stick gameplay this used was novel at the time, and would later go on to form an entire genre, which has evolved quite far into all sorts of creative new forms. A genre that has been growing in popularity for years now. But the original still remains one of the best. And one of the hardest.

Others: Juno First (personal favorite), Major Havok, Asteroids, Mario Bros.


NES:

Metroid - It was buggy as all heck (no, seriously, Metroid has ALOT of glitches) but this game was one that showed what "exploration" could mean in a video game. While at the same time providing a unique, otherworldly setting, with graphics and music that truly made it feel like an alien world. This is my personal favorite entry in the series.

Others: Super Mario (the first), Zelda (both)


I could list piles of games for every console really.

When it comes to modern games though, I can think of two very specific ones.

The Binding of Isaac - I honestly consider this one of the greatest games ever made... I'd say, it's in my top 3. Yes, I know it's full of turd monsters and assorted horrors, but it's the gameplay that truly makes this shine. Isaac is credited as essentially kickstarting a genre for a reason (roguelikes/lites, of the sort that arent turn-based) and still remains the best of them. It took the formula used by the very first Legend of Zelda, turned it up to 11, and then combined that with the concept of a roguelike. And the way it's mechanics work add another layer of brilliance past that. Items synergize dynamically with one another, something that is *incredibly* hard to pull off in game design. And they do this to such an extent that the possibilities are endless. I have over 500 hours in this game. It STILL surprises me on a quite regular basis. It's still just as fun as the first time I played it. And it's a game that min-maxers can really get into. On top of that, it's a game that has real personality, in an era where that's hard to find. EVERYTHING here... playable characters, enemies, bosses, items... is memorable instead of derivative. Players who get into this game tend to REALLY get into it. The game has an absolutely baffling amount of content... there are 197 enemy types 72 bosses, 547 items, and 15 playable characters... and most players will easily remember the names of every single one of them. Even I know the names of everything (and often, the lore/trivia behind each one), and my memory is HORRIBLE.


Minecraft - No, I dont care what anyone else thinks of this one. This juggernaut rampaged through the industry and changed everything. It didnt just create a genre... it had an impact even on genres that were far away from it. Boundless creativity in all forms... including building and problem-solving, endless exploration, a superb crafting system, and a million other things I could rant about all day. I could spend pages and pages going on about why I think this game is brilliant. I really could. If I had to pick an absolute favorite game.... it'd be this.

Fnord wrote:
Most important of all, players interact with each other in the same location face-to-face.


This is the bit I'll never understand.

Frankly, when it comes to games normally played with more than one player, I'd rather play with/against a proper AI than an actual player (for about a million different reasons). Which means I stick almost exclusively to single-player, because current-tech AI is usually dumber than a sack of hammers.



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14 Oct 2018, 10:37 am

Minecraft because at the time it came out it was a very novel type of game. There really wasn't anything else like it and it had extremely wide appeal (even though the actual game has always been cumbersome to run, especially multiplayer).

World of Warcraft because it popularised and became the poster child for an entire genre of game. It wasn't the first and it didn't even do that much to innovate, but it was huge in scope and very well executed. I don't have time to play it these days but from what I know it's still going strong over a decade since its launch with new content. When I think of the best times I've had gaming this game comes to mind for its well tuned, challenging cooperative play, and I know there's lots of people who find it just as satisfying for its solo and competitive gameplay.

Dark Souls because it's a great action RPG that demands much of the player. It has the difficulty of old school action games like Castlevania that requires mastery of its systems, both in moment to moment combat, and in preplanning with things like choosing the right weapon for the right situation. Like the other games listed here it's been incredibly influential and the phrase 'it's the Dark Souls of x' is commonly used positively to describe new games (even if it doesn't make sense).



mrspock
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16 Oct 2018, 12:48 pm

Misery wrote:
I would have a very hard time picking any specific favorites here.... I can think of so many examples. I'll try to think of a few for various consoles:

Atari 2600:

Space Invaders - this is just a good example of a port done right. It did a good job in showing off the capabilities of the console, but also it showed how a developer could take a pre-existing concept, and add to it. The core gameplay was fully intact, but on top of that you had a bazillion different variations to choose from. It also sped up the action in rather subtle ways, making for a more engaging experience. The 2600 was very good at ports in general (even if some had to be missing out on some features) and this is one of the best examples.

I could honestly list so very, very many examples from that one console. Some of which were fairly popular... like Jungle Hunt... and others, most people have never heard of, such as Turmoil (one of my personal favorites).


Arcade:

Robotron 2084 - Absolute brilliance. The twin-stick gameplay this used was novel at the time, and would later go on to form an entire genre, which has evolved quite far into all sorts of creative new forms. A genre that has been growing in popularity for years now. But the original still remains one of the best. And one of the hardest.

Others: Juno First (personal favorite), Major Havok, Asteroids, Mario Bros.


NES:

Metroid - It was buggy as all heck (no, seriously, Metroid has ALOT of glitches) but this game was one that showed what "exploration" could mean in a video game. While at the same time providing a unique, otherworldly setting, with graphics and music that truly made it feel like an alien world. This is my personal favorite entry in the series.

Others: Super Mario (the first), Zelda (both)


I could list piles of games for every console really.

When it comes to modern games though, I can think of two very specific ones.

The Binding of Isaac - I honestly consider this one of the greatest games ever made... I'd say, it's in my top 3. Yes, I know it's full of turd monsters and assorted horrors, but it's the gameplay that truly makes this shine. Isaac is credited as essentially kickstarting a genre for a reason (roguelikes/lites, of the sort that arent turn-based) and still remains the best of them. It took the formula used by the very first Legend of Zelda, turned it up to 11, and then combined that with the concept of a roguelike. And the way it's mechanics work add another layer of brilliance past that. Items synergize dynamically with one another, something that is *incredibly* hard to pull off in game design. And they do this to such an extent that the possibilities are endless. I have over 500 hours in this game. It STILL surprises me on a quite regular basis. It's still just as fun as the first time I played it. And it's a game that min-maxers can really get into. On top of that, it's a game that has real personality, in an era where that's hard to find. EVERYTHING here... playable characters, enemies, bosses, items... is memorable instead of derivative. Players who get into this game tend to REALLY get into it. The game has an absolutely baffling amount of content... there are 197 enemy types 72 bosses, 547 items, and 15 playable characters... and most players will easily remember the names of every single one of them. Even I know the names of everything (and often, the lore/trivia behind each one), and my memory is HORRIBLE.


Minecraft - No, I dont care what anyone else thinks of this one. This juggernaut rampaged through the industry and changed everything. It didnt just create a genre... it had an impact even on genres that were far away from it. Boundless creativity in all forms... including building and problem-solving, endless exploration, a superb crafting system, and a million other things I could rant about all day. I could spend pages and pages going on about why I think this game is brilliant. I really could. If I had to pick an absolute favorite game.... it'd be this.

Fnord wrote:
Most important of all, players interact with each other in the same location face-to-face.


This is the bit I'll never understand.

Frankly, when it comes to games normally played with more than one player, I'd rather play with/against a proper AI than an actual player (for about a million different reasons). Which means I stick almost exclusively to single-player, because current-tech AI is usually dumber than a sack of hammers.


I think one of the Atari 2600s main issues with arcade ports was the fact that it had a very simple controller--just a stick and one button. For any arcade games, mostly shooters, with multiple buttons, you naturally lost something or were forced to simplify things. Thing is, games that have lots of button functions take me some time to get used to, and then if I go from say playing Halo to playing Dead Space, I find myself trying to control it like its Halo. I wish all shooters on the same platform were controlled in more or less the same way.

Metroid was one of the first of the Space Marine type shooters and what they achieved on such a primitive system as the NES was very impressive in its day.

You liked Zelda 2? Because I honestly hated it, and see it as a lone stain on an otherwise great franchise.

As for Space Invaders, this was yet another take on a shooter format very common in the early days of arcade games. You know the ones--Galga, Galaxian, I'd even put Satan's Hollow in that category. I LOVE Satan's Hollow, I love the fact that it used the same trigger stick as Tron only red, and have found it only on one retro collection, namely Arcade Origins for the Xbox 360.


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16 Oct 2018, 3:10 pm

Halo 3

Reason 1: The score - excellent accompaniment on each level, especially when Ascent plays just as you lift off in the Hornets to blast through the swarming Banshees, avoiding the ground fire, and push towards the destruction of the Scarabs. The same is true for Tsavo Highway and so many others. The you get the sad but hopeful pieces like Never Forget.

Reason 2: best multiplay shooter experience I've ever had. The balance of weapons, the control systems, the usilisation of vehicles in the Big Team Battles, the variety of modes and the ability to create expansive custom maps and custom games. The community for that game was excellent.



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16 Oct 2018, 3:33 pm

MisterSpock wrote:
Halo 3

Reason 1: The score - excellent accompaniment on each level, especially when Ascent plays just as you lift off in the Hornets to blast through the swarming Banshees, avoiding the ground fire, and push towards the destruction of the Scarabs. The same is true for Tsavo Highway and so many others. The you get the sad but hopeful pieces like Never Forget.

Reason 2: best multiplay shooter experience I've ever had. The balance of weapons, the control systems, the usilisation of vehicles in the Big Team Battles, the variety of modes and the ability to create expansive custom maps and custom games. The community for that game was excellent.


Wondering if you are the Spock of an alternate timeline or an alternate reality...hopefully not the Mirror Uni lol.

I agree with you 100%. I love Halo 3 for all the reasons you post. Its tied with Zelda 3 and FF 1 as my favorite game of all time, and certainly my favorite shooter.


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17 Oct 2018, 7:49 pm

mrspock wrote:
I think one of the Atari 2600s main issues with arcade ports was the fact that it had a very simple controller--just a stick and one button. For any arcade games, mostly shooters, with multiple buttons, you naturally lost something or were forced to simplify things. Thing is, games that have lots of button functions take me some time to get used to, and then if I go from say playing Halo to playing Dead Space, I find myself trying to control it like its Halo. I wish all shooters on the same platform were controlled in more or less the same way.

Metroid was one of the first of the Space Marine type shooters and what they achieved on such a primitive system as the NES was very impressive in its day.

You liked Zelda 2? Because I honestly hated it, and see it as a lone stain on an otherwise great franchise.

As for Space Invaders, this was yet another take on a shooter format very common in the early days of arcade games. You know the ones--Galga, Galaxian, I'd even put Satan's Hollow in that category. I LOVE Satan's Hollow, I love the fact that it used the same trigger stick as Tron only red, and have found it only on one retro collection, namely Arcade Origins for the Xbox 360.



Wow... you actually know what Satan's Hollow is. I dont even know what to say to that. I hardly ever meet anyone that knows anything about arcade titles beyond the super obvious ones like Donkey Kong and Pac-man.

I've not played the actual arcade cabinet or the compilation version of it though. Just the Mame rom. I have all the roms. ALL of them. Well, everything before 2006 anyway. Went to quite some trouble to get those...

As for Space Invaders itself though... that one kinda is special to me for a couple of reasons: 1, it was the original (the arcade one anyway). Like, the very start of that genre of game (er... as far as I know). It's simple, sure, and outright ancient, but it definitely has alot of meaning as the originator of the genre. But also 2, that game turned into a franchise that's been going for a LONG time... still going strong even now. And it's always been quality games. I'm impressed that they've kept it going for so long.


Also to some degree with the 2600 I can agree with you, the single button did make issues for some ports. The biggest ones that I can think of being Defender and Stargate. There were others though that took games with alot of buttons and managed to translate them over just fine. Asteroids for instance. That game has a ton of different buttons. Heck, I played that arcade cabinet recently... it's quite the control scheme. But the Atari version managed to pull the whole thing off perfectly.


Zelda 2, yeah, I've always really liked it. Sure, it's nothing like the rest of the series, but as AVGN said, there wasnt really a long-established formula back then for that series... it was only the second game, after all. They could have gone in any direction with it really. And alot of NES games at that time were very... experimental in their design.

Oddly with Zelda, I actually didnt like most of the later games in the franchise. I liked the the NES ones, and LTTP, and the gameboy one.... but after that my interest sorta died. I did play through Ocarina, but found it kinda "meh"... only played through it once, have no desire to do so again. Got bored with Majora and outright hated Windwaker. I've mostly ignored the series since then. I did try Breath of the Wild. Dont like that one much either, got tired of it just a couple hours in. I always call that one "Zelda: Ubisoft Edition" as it's so freaking similar to their formula (which I also never liked). Even has the bloody towers.



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18 Oct 2018, 10:30 am

My arcade had a Satans Hollow mini cabinet and what drew me to it was the artwork on the sides.


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19 Oct 2018, 9:00 am

Also, if you play the Xbox 360 Arcade Origins, there is a lone achievement attached to Satan's Hollow: 30 game points with the title of "Savior" for shooting the big flying Devil face during the bonus round.

In the film Wreck It Ralph, the Devil is present at the support group meeting for video game bad guys. It is speculated by some that he is the Devil from the Satan's Hollow game.


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10 Nov 2018, 12:29 am

I miss City of Heroes. I had a good time and spent countless hours making and leveling up characters. I still have the email they sent out when they shut down the servers. I don't recall the exact date the servers went down, but the email is from December 1, 2012.

After hosting the final heroic battle between good and evil
the City of Heroes servers have been shut down permanently.


We've taken to the skies of City of Heroes but the game and community will forever remain in our memories and hearts. We thank our fans for their years of support. We couldn't have gone this far without you.


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10 Nov 2018, 7:24 pm

blackicmenace wrote:
I miss City of Heroes. I had a good time and spent countless hours making and leveling up characters. I still have the email they sent out when they shut down the servers. I don't recall the exact date the servers went down, but the email is from December 1, 2012.

After hosting the final heroic battle between good and evil
the City of Heroes servers have been shut down permanently.


We've taken to the skies of City of Heroes but the game and community will forever remain in our memories and hearts. We thank our fans for their years of support. We couldn't have gone this far without you.



Uuuuuuuuuugh

Has it really been that long? Bah.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I completely blame World of Warcraft and Blizzard for this one. I used to be really into MMOs, and the genre used to have all sorts of INTERESTING games. From City of Heroes to Anarchy Online, these all had personality to them. They were fun.

And then WoW happened.

Suddenly every corporate moron decided that if they, too, copied WoW's formula, SURELY it'd print money (the fact that WoW itself is just an Everquest clone somehow makes this even more ridiculous).

Those games that were creative and interesting got left behind as the entire genre was twisted into a new shape. And now? It frankly sucks. There's such little creativity in it that it's almost as bad as modern military shooters.

It's not JUST that City of Heroes went down in flames. I'll never forgive them for what they did to the genre as a whole.

But yeah, CoH was my absolute favorite. It was freaking brilliant.

And you know what, the REALLY sucky thing with MMOs: When they're dead, they're DEAD. You cant even fire them up yourself (even if you used to play them solo and know full well that it's viable in said game). All the more reason why I tend to stick to single-player games these days. No reliance on some damn server. I got really fed up with PERMANENTLY losing games I loved.



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13 Nov 2018, 8:23 am

Pac-Man is a great game


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16 Nov 2018, 10:11 am

Misery wrote:

As for Space Invaders itself though... that one kinda is special to me for a couple of reasons: 1, it was the original (the arcade one anyway). Like, the very start of that genre of game (er... as far as I know). It's simple, sure, and outright ancient, but it definitely has alot of meaning as the originator of the genre. But also 2, that game turned into a franchise that's been going for a LONG time... still going strong even now. And it's always been quality games. I'm impressed that they've kept it going for so long.



While Space Invaders was not the first space shooting game (Spacewars! from 1962 beat it by 16 years), it was the first one that really popularized the concept. Per wikipedia, it has generated $13 billion in profits over the 40 years since it was first released. If I remember right, only Pac-Man sold more arcade units in the early 1980s during the arcade craze. Space Invaders heavily influenced me to start playing video games when I was a young kid. A few years ago, I bought a first generation (1978 release) full cabinet version of it at a garage sale for $300 and I still have it in my collection. It works just like new after all of these years.

I also have a table top cabinet version of Asteroids Deluxe, but it is not as much fun as the original version.