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Aurura_b
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14 Jun 2023, 11:29 am

Okay,.. this is one of my big things. ⚡
I. Love. :heart: To learn about the origin of things.
I'm not studying up each and every possible word or subject night and day, no, but if I do discover a word (especially) or topic I'd like to understand more about, I find it exciting to study its roots and formations. :nerdy:

What's a topic, of which you *Love* (not hate!), that you enjoy learning about?

Also, is there a word whose etymology you've learned and found fascinating? I'd love for you to share!


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14 Jun 2023, 11:49 am

This isn't a specific word but it's something that I learned once about the English language specifically and I notice it all the time.

That is, in English we tend to have 3 different words for the same things and their etymological roots can be traced back to various invasions of England. For example we have the word Dog, which is Nordic in origin and is typically Norse in its harsh consonant sounds and monosyllabic nature. Then we have canine, which is of course Latin and arrived with our Roman conquerors. Then we also have hound which has its roots in Germanic languages.

So one of the reasons English is such a rich language is because England kept getting invaded.


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Aurura_b
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14 Jun 2023, 12:04 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
So one of the reasons English is such a rich language is because England kept getting invaded.


....*WOOOOoooaaaahhhh....* :!: 8O :!:

What's another example?! That's amazing!


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14 Jun 2023, 12:19 pm

Let me do this again... (could have sworn I submitted this but maybe not...)

Food and drink, and all the ways it's all grown, harvested, processed, stored, prepared, and eaten.


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14 Jun 2023, 12:22 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
This isn't a specific word but it's something that I learned once about the English language specifically and I notice it all the time.

That is, in English we tend to have 3 different words for the same things and their etymological roots can be traced back to various invasions of England. For example we have the word Dog, which is Nordic in origin and is typically Norse in its harsh consonant sounds and monosyllabic nature. Then we have canine, which is of course Latin and arrived with our Roman conquerors. Then we also have hound which has its roots in Germanic languages.

So one of the reasons English is such a rich language is because England kept getting invaded.


I read that "dog" just popped into existence in the 12 hundreds AD in written text in Middle English and nobody know where the fig it came from. :lol:

Dog has no known antecedents they said.

"Hound" as you said came from the Germanic Anglosaxons invaders who became "the English" and started the English language in the first place, and is akin to the modern German "hund".

And Canine is Latin by way of French from Canis.

And oddly enough both hund and Canis are akin to each other because both words for dog came from Proto Indo-European. Where you see a 'c' in Latin, you tend to see an "h" in German. Like centum and hundred.



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14 Jun 2023, 4:12 pm

DuckHairback wrote:

That is, in English we tend to have 3 different words for the same things and their etymological roots can be traced back to various invasions of England. For example we have the word Dog, which is Nordic in origin and is typically Norse in its harsh consonant sounds and monosyllabic nature. Then we have canine, which is of course Latin and arrived with our Roman conquerors. Then we also have hound which has its roots in Germanic languages.




I believe that the Nordic languages are themselves Germanic. The Norwegian word for 'dog' is apparently 'hund', exactly as in German.


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14 Jun 2023, 4:13 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
And oddly enough both hund and Canis are akin to each other because both words for dog came from Proto Indo-European. Where you see a 'c' in Latin, you tend to see an "h" in German. Like centum and hundred.


Grimm's law.

Hemp and cannabis are another example.


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14 Jun 2023, 4:16 pm

DeepHour wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:

That is, in English we tend to have 3 different words for the same things and their etymological roots can be traced back to various invasions of England. For example we have the word Dog, which is Nordic in origin and is typically Norse in its harsh consonant sounds and monosyllabic nature. Then we have canine, which is of course Latin and arrived with our Roman conquerors. Then we also have hound which has its roots in Germanic languages.




I believe that the Nordic languages are themselves Germanic. The Norwegian word for 'dog' is apparently 'hund', exactly as in German.


Correct, English and the Nordic languages are examples of Germanic languages.

English often has English and French pairings because of the leftover influence of Norman French. There's also examples of triples, generally English, French and Latin because of the influence of the church.


Regarding dog, according to Wikitionary:

Quote:
From Middle English dogge (whence also Scots dug (“dog”)), from Old English dogga, docga, of uncertain origin.

The original meaning seems to have been a common dog, as opposed to a well-bred one, or something like 'cur', and perhaps later came to be used for stocky dogs. Possibly a pet-form diminutive with suffix -ga (compare frocga (“frog”), *picga (“pig”)), appended to a base *dog-, *doc- of unclear origin and meaning. One possibility is Old English dox (“dark, swarthy”) (compare frocga from frox).

Another proposal is that it derives from Proto-West Germanic *dugan (“to be suitable”), the origin of Old English dugan (“to be good, worthy, useful”), English dow, German taugen. The theory goes that it could have been an epithet for dogs, commonly used by children, meaning "good/useful animal.".

Another is that it is related to *docce (“stock, muscle”), from Proto-West Germanic *dokkā (“round mass, ball, muscle, doll”), whence English dock (“stumpy tail”).


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14 Jun 2023, 7:16 pm

English has triplets and couplets because of its composed of two Germanic sources plus French/Latin.

The Norse were a separate offshoot of the Germanic tribes from the Anglo/Saxon/Frisians

Norwegian Vikings over ran (be failed to conquer) Scotland, and trickled down into England. Norway is one big naked boulder in the sea because the glaciers scraped away all of the soil during the Ice Age so Norwegians were happy to take the worst farm land in Scotland and in England because it was better than the best in Norway.

Danish Vikings raided and then finally conquered and ruled the whole eastern shank of England above the Thames called "The Danelaw". So England had both Danes and Norwegian invaders which is why English often has pairs of words from both Norse and continental Germanic origin. And often they are similar sounding words (because the two branches of Germanic are similar). Like you can raise (Norse) a child, or you can rear (Anglo Saxon) a child in English. Shirt and skirt are another Anglosaxon/Norse couplet that meant the same thing originally before they evolved into meaning slightly different garments.

And then on top of that you have the Norman French influence, and church Latin. So you have those couplets as well...like value (French) and worth (Germanic).



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14 Jun 2023, 7:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
English has tripletts because of its composed of two Germanic sources plus French/Latin.

The Norse were a seperate offshoot of the Germanic tribes from the Anglo/Saxon/Frisians

Norwejian Vikings over ran (be failed to conquer) Scotland, and tricked down into England.

Danish Vikings raided and then finnally conquered and ruled the whole eastern shank of England called "The Danelaw". So English often has pairs of words from both Norse and continental Germanic origin. And often they are similar sounding words (because the two branches of Germanic are similar). Like you can raise (Norse) and child, or you can rear (Anglo Saxon) a child in English. Shirt and skirt are another Anglosaxon/Norse couplet that meant the same thing originally before they evolved into meaning slightly different garments.

And then on top of that you have the Norman French influence, and church Latin. So you those couplets two...like value (French) and worth (Germanic).


English doesn't have many triplets that include a Norse word, at least compared to those that include French and Latin words.

Norse who settled in England didn't form a distinct segment of society in the same way that the Church and the Norman-speaking nobility did, it shouldn't be surprising that their linguistic influence is less distinct. Some Norse borrowings are the result of vowel shifts, like they is borrowed from Norse, because the Anglisk word had become a homophone of he.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they


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14 Jun 2023, 7:32 pm

The only other language I know anything about is Spanish.

In most Romance languages the word for "dog" is quite similar to the Latin word "canis".

Italian "cane" (Ka-nay), French "chien", Portugese "cao", and Rumanian "caine".

But in Spanish it's "perro".

So apparently the Spaniards also plucked their word for "dog" out of thin air one day just like the English did!



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14 Jun 2023, 7:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
English has tripletts because of its composed of two Germanic sources plus French/Latin.

The Norse were a seperate offshoot of the Germanic tribes from the Anglo/Saxon/Frisians

Norwejian Vikings over ran (be failed to conquer) Scotland, and tricked down into England.

Danish Vikings raided and then finnally conquered and ruled the whole eastern shank of England called "The Danelaw". So English often has pairs of words from both Norse and continental Germanic origin. And often they are similar sounding words (because the two branches of Germanic are similar). Like you can raise (Norse) and child, or you can rear (Anglo Saxon) a child in English. Shirt and skirt are another Anglosaxon/Norse couplet that meant the same thing originally before they evolved into meaning slightly different garments.

And then on top of that you have the Norman French influence, and church Latin. So you those couplets two...like value (French) and worth (Germanic).


English doesn't have many triplets that include a Norse word, at least compared to those that include French and Latin words.

Norse who settled in England didn't form a distinct segment of society in the same way that the Church and the Norman-speaking nobility did, it shouldn't be surprising that their linguistic influence is less distinct. Some Norse borrowings are the result of vowel shifts, like they is borrowed from Norse, because the Anglisk word had become a homophone of he.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they

Right. English does not have tripletts. It has different kinds of couplets.

When its a couplet between similar sounding words -thats usually AngloSaxon and Norse (raise/ rear).

When its couplet between different souding words then thats usually Germanic vs French (value/worth).



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14 Jun 2023, 7:43 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
English has tripletts because of its composed of two Germanic sources plus French/Latin.

The Norse were a seperate offshoot of the Germanic tribes from the Anglo/Saxon/Frisians

Norwejian Vikings over ran (be failed to conquer) Scotland, and tricked down into England.

Danish Vikings raided and then finnally conquered and ruled the whole eastern shank of England called "The Danelaw". So English often has pairs of words from both Norse and continental Germanic origin. And often they are similar sounding words (because the two branches of Germanic are similar). Like you can raise (Norse) and child, or you can rear (Anglo Saxon) a child in English. Shirt and skirt are another Anglosaxon/Norse couplet that meant the same thing originally before they evolved into meaning slightly different garments.

And then on top of that you have the Norman French influence, and church Latin. So you those couplets two...like value (French) and worth (Germanic).


English doesn't have many triplets that include a Norse word, at least compared to those that include French and Latin words.

Norse who settled in England didn't form a distinct segment of society in the same way that the Church and the Norman-speaking nobility did, it shouldn't be surprising that their linguistic influence is less distinct. Some Norse borrowings are the result of vowel shifts, like they is borrowed from Norse, because the Anglisk word had become a homophone of he.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they

Right. English does not have tripletts. It has different kinds of couplets.

When its a couplet between similar sounding words -thats usually AngloSaxon and Norse (raise/ rear).

When its couplet between different souding words then thats usually Germanic vs French (value/worth).


English does have triplets though; like kingly, royal, regal; ask, question, interrogate; fast, firm, secure; holy, sacred, consecrated, etc. Those are all examples of English/French/Latin triplets.


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14 Jun 2023, 8:18 pm

My kitten is named Hester, to honour Hester Jonas from the Salem witch trials.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hester_Jonas


For short I call her Hex, or sometimes Hexe: two different meanings and etymologies.


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14 Jun 2023, 8:32 pm

Aurura_b wrote:
Also, is there a word whose etymology you've learned and found fascinating? I'd love for you to share!


There are, but right now I do not remember them.

Etymology is interesting enough that I got Online Etymology's browser add on to Google Chrome browser, and it does get used. :D

Quote:
What's a topic, of which you *Love* (not hate!), that you enjoy learning about?

Current screen name answers 3 of those topics.
Kite in shape of rocket indicates another much enjoyed topic, rockets, spaceflight.
Ships, boats, sailboats, submarines, are other topics enjoyed.
Ancient history is also enjoyed, I guess given its folder for this year in Downloads on this thing is 804 MB.


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