Parallel Between Israel And Child Abuse

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There is no doubt that Jewish people were discriminated and abused against in the past. Instead of them saying "we don't want to subject another race to the way we were treated when we were "growing up", they now have their own country with military might and are inflicting the same pain they felt as a race on others. The oppressed have now become the oppressor yet Israel acts in total shock when the oppressed fight back. I feel this is what is meant when it's said the cycle of abuse continues. Do you think this is a fair comparison?

Yes and no. Most oppressive governments or other oppressive forces in a society are replicating the oppression that came before, because that is what they know. My go-to example is Russia. The oppression of the tsar was replicated in the USSR and again replicated in modern Russia. They internalize that this is just how things work. Much the same way that the child who was beaten by their parents will sometimes feel reasonable beating their own children. Part of it has to do with insecurity: nationalists will especially perpetuate the oppression of the past, because nationalism is built on the idea that Nation Good--Nation In Past Was Even Better! Nation In Past More Authoritarian, Ergo Authoritarianism Good!

This applies to Israel too, though maybe not as much as places like Russia. Israel is like if the kid in school finally got bullied so horribly that their bullies' enablers started to speak up, and most of their bullies had changed of heart or stopped bullying them as openly as before. Jews' former bullies decided to be Jews' best buddies. (For some reason, Judeo-Christian wasn't a popular phrase at all until after 1945...) Unfortunately, Zionists have internalized the genocidal philosophies that were used to justify the murder of Jews for 2000+ years. So the kid who used to get bullied started to be friends with those same bullies for the sole reason that they weren't bullying them in particular anymore. Hell, now the bullies help their new friend to be just like them!--with bullets and missiles and billions of dollars put towards pro-bully policies.

An alarming number of Zionists looked at WWII and decided the main lesson was "Genocide of one ethnic group and the establishment of a supremacist state is the only way for another ethnic group to be safe." They share this explicit world view with their former friends of pro-apartheid white South Africans, French Algerians, Rhodesians, and segregationist southern Americans. But because these double-standards are now applied to benefit Jews (as long as they're not black, obviously), opposing the double-standard is regarded, by the Zionist, as anti-Semitic. The Zionist and the white supremacist regard criticism of Jewish or white supremacy as rooted in arbitrary bigotry towards those groups. Both Jewish and goy Zionists operate off of this white supremacist view of history where indigenous people have less right to their land than more "enlightened", "tolerant" Europeans. Hence why Palestinians, to Zionists, have no right to the land they've inhabited for 3000+ years. They are treated as subhuman, and when they react with violence, it is used as further evidence that they are subhuman. The Zionist playbook is identical to that of my own countrymen who spend a lot of time for some reason downplaying the genocide of indigenous populations. You know, for an ideology that claims to be about indigenous self-determination, Zionist Israel seems to mainly choose allies who actively, violently oppose indigenous self-determination or minority rights in general.

Thanks for responding. I saw the Pale of Settlement as a larger version of Palestine.








P.S.: The only reason for editing; this is the first time I noticed the first 4 letters of Palestine are also Pale.

Goy nationalists: These minorities and foreigners do not accept the supremacy of our nation or our glorious state religion. Thus, they are a threat to the state and the nation, and we, as a nation, are well within our rights to take away their rights and to herd them around like animals.

Zionists: Write that down... Write that down.... This'll be really useful advice if we ever get our own national-supremacist state!



This is why nationalism always eats itself. It is always self-centered and short-sighted. Nationalists are loyal to their own nation more than they are to any other principles. Nationalists can only cooperate internationally as long as their nations' interests are the same. The moment national interests conflict, nationalist solidarity evaporates like a morning mist. Zionists should have remembered that. What do they think will happen when the Christian nationalists decide that a Jewish state runs counter to their Christian-supremacist ideas? What's going to happen when the Christians stop saying "Judeo-Christian values" and go back to just saying "Christian values"?

All nationalist alliances are temporary truces of convenience. Nationalism is all about throwing other nations under the bus the moment it becomes beneficial. Zionists and all other kinds of nationalist are just fine with that as long as they personally aren't the ones being thrown under the bus.

Anti-Zionist Jews realize these things. Zionism and Israel do not represent the millions of Jews who took one look at European history and decided that nationalism is a pox on the earth. It's why so many Jews gravitate towards the left. This was another reason why goy Zionists supported Israel. It encourages nationalism in otherwise rationally anti-nationalist Jews. It also furthers the ancient anti-Semitic talking point that Jews can't be trusted to be loyal to non-Jewish governments. Take a drink every time Israel and its allies encourage anti-Semitism for political gain.....

It is not just the holocaust. It is that before the Nazis took power the Jews in Germany were blended in society, even had outsized representation in power and culture. The lesson learned was that in the end it did them no good, they were too naive, thought it would blow over, we hit bottom, it can’t get any worse etc. Those Jews had no precedent to expect what was to come. The Zionists who founded Israel did. Most of the world views Israeli actions as extreme over reaction. Zionists go by “Never Again” which in their interpretation means if they let them “get away” with anything in might mean the first step to Holocaust 2.0 so stamp out everything they can.

South Africa and most other colonies were resource grabs for profit. America more resembles Israel in that many groups did and do come here to flee persecution.

Prior to the six day war was America was not friendly to Israel, Truman recognized Israel against the wishes of most. Despite Nixon being very antisemitic it was during his administration we really stated selling them arms for Cold War reasons. Most of Europe and what we call the Global South was hostile to them. As noted an exception was South Africa. I do not think it was ideological companionship as much as they were happy with anybody that wanted to be “friendly” with them. Similar with the American Christian Right now.

Prior to 10/7 Israeli nationalism was becoming more like the traditional kinds. 10/7 brought back the “never again” mentality.

"Never again"? more like "Never again, unless we're the ones doing it."

It is a pernicious, dangerous lie that atrocities and ethnic cleansing are necessary to guarantee the safety of any group. This sentiment, along with the conflation of Israel and the Jewish people, has encouraged people worldwide to conclude that Jews (since Israel aggressively wants you to think that everything it does is representative of the will of all Jews everywhere) will feel completely justified in committing any atrocity if their supremacist state is threatened. Believe it or not, that is going to eventually cause most of the world to hate the supremacist state and wish for its dissolution. And when people hate the supremacist state, a lot of them are going to be stupid enough to actually believe what Israel wants them to believe: Israel=Jews; ergo, if Israel commits war crimes against your people, Israel (in some capacity) wants you to consider all Jews to be responsible for or okay with those atrocities. Israel aggressively pushes the ancient anti-Semitic idea that all Jews are some sort of nationalist hive mind.


All settler colonies are the same. Israel is explicitly intended to be part of the West. It consistently aligns itself with the likes of the UK, the US, South Africa (when whites were in charge), Australia, etc.
I concede it is similar to America in that people came here to avoid persecution. White people came here to avoid oppression in Europe and then came here and contributed to the genocide of the native population and the oppression of non-Europeans, Jews, the Irish, etc. Zionists did the same thing: committing genocide as if that is an effective way to avoid oppression. It is treating oppression as a zero-sum game.


Anti-Semites supporting Israel? Why wouldn't anti-Semites support Israel? Neo-Nazis and more casual anti-Semites love that there is somewhere they can intimidate Jews into fleeing to. It also sets a precedent that I have hammered home many times: Israel sets the precedent that ethnic supremacist states are okay, and even necessary to assure the safety of an ethnic group. White supremacists agree. Apartheid South Africa agrees. The new wave of right-wing radicals in Europe agree.

Furthermore, Israel exists less to protect Jews, and moreso to maintain colonialism. Are you a black Jew? Then Israel doesn't want you, because Israel is more anti-black than it will ever be pro-Jew. Israel loves to endanger Jews for political benefit. Hence its long history of friendships with the anti-Semitic likes of Nixon and Orban, and their support for colonial rule of black Africans by whites (and Morocco, because the hatred of blacks outweighs even their hatred of Arabs).
Why WOULDN'T Israel sow anti-Semitism abroad? If Jews feel unsafe outside Israel, that makes it more likely they'll move to Israel! Israel LOVES the idea of Jews feeling unsafe outside Israel. If Jews feel safe outside Israel, it undermines Israel's arguments that Jews need a supremacist state to be safe. More Jews immigrating to Israel means more soldiers, more taxpayers, more settlers to violently force non-Jews from their homes and burn their holy sites! There's no downside as far as Israel is concerned. Jews feeling safe outside Israel is extremely concerning to "the Jewish state".


Let's be generous and say you're right and that Israel only accepted South African friendship out convenience and desperation for allies. So what? Apartheid South Africa took one look at Israel and saw kindred spirits. And Israel saw an oppressive supremacist state offering friendship, and Israel eagerly embraced them. Offered arms and diplomatic support until those meddling Americans pressured them to betray such an admirable ally. That doesn't sound like an alliance made in spite of one's principles. It sounds like an alliance made fully in accordance with one's principles.

Why does Israel not seek allies among the indigenous peoples of the world? Why does it seem to, if anything, consistently do the exact opposite?
Does Israel support a united Ireland? No! Do they support the return of land to Native Americans and Australians? No! Do they support First Nations? No! It's for the exact same reasons they didn't support indigenous Africans suffering under colonialism. And for what? Short term political gain? How has that worked for Israel? How has that worked for the world's Jews? How is the rest of the world expected to view that?

Israel cares about its continued existence as an ethnic supremacist state. All other principles are secondary. Israel will throw millions of oppressed people under the bus (or offer guns and support to their oppressors) if it means that they can continue to exist and oppress others.
"Never again"? Israel is all about "Again". Israel stokes violence and hatred and conflict, then plays innocent victim when what goes around comes around. It is a state without a conscience. It is an exercise in anti-brown, anti-black colonialism.

What, do Zionists expect black Africans to forgive and forget all it did to keep them under the white man's yoke? Do Zionists expect people who give a s--- about black Africans to just forgive and forget? Israel hasn't changed since it supported Apartheid and colonialism. "Never again" to black Africans includes never tolerating or enabling other colonial regimes. Why should they see Israel as anything but a racist supremacist state that deserves to be thrown in the ash heap of history? Why shouldn't they feel solidarity with Palestine?

Israel only sheepishly conceded defeat on apartheid after continuous external pressure--the same way the segregationists in my own country did. Waiting for the supremacist state to grow a conscience is a fool's errand. What will Israel and its supporters sheepishly admit defeat on next? What further back-pedaling can I expect from the Zionists of tomorrow when it becomes politically convenient?

Palestine has been living in constant "Never again" mode for 80 years. Israel likes to use violence to get what it wants, declare peace, and treat any resistance to that unjust peace as barbaric. Israelis get to live in their prosperous little bubble with their state-of-the-art weapons and billions of dollars of support from the West. Meanwhile, Palestinians deal with routine murder from IDF, Israeli police, and Israeli civilians. How many dead Palestinians will it take for Zionists to give a damn about their desire for "Never again"? When will Israel's policy stop being "Again and again and again as many times as it takes until you submit"?

I'm just wondering, if the premise of this thread is that the oppressed frequently become oppressors when they get their own state, following that line of reasoning, what would prevent the proposed "From the River to the Sea" Palestine from continuing the cycle?

And whites said the exact same thing in South Africa. And the American South. And Rhodesia. And everywhere else anyone has oppressed anyone, the oppressor has used this line of argument as justification to continue the cycle. "We have to keep them under control! They hate us for oppressing them, so we have to keep oppressing them to keep ourselves safe!! !"

Kicking out an invader is not perpetuating a cycle. And even if it was, there would be no cycle to begin with if the Zionists had not invaded and committed genocide against the Palestinians with Western backing. East Germans endured oppression under the Soviets for decades, and it was their own goddamn fault! Don't invade--don't commit genocide--don't try to carve out Lebensraum for an ethnic supremacist settler state--and it never would have happened! They made their bed and by God they lied in it.

If a bully beats the s**t out of me, then I am not as bad as the bully if I beat the s**t out of them. The bully has only themselves to blame. Israel just thought they would always be on the winning side, so they treat the Palestinians however the hell they want.

This is also an Israeli tactic: commit atrocities against Palestinian civilians to provoke asymmetrical warfare responses which are then characterized as barbaric and used to justify more atrocities, which in turn provoke more violence. More land seized, more dead Palestinian children, more desecrated holy sites. Israel knows they radicalize the Palestinians en masse with their atrocities. Why wouldn't they want radical Palestinians? Why wouldn't they want their citizens terrified of Palestinians and Arabs? It makes it easier to justify murdering them and treating them as subhuman. I routinely see Zionists compare Palestinians and Arabs to Orcs from Lord of the Rings.
Zionists make negligible attempts to understand the grievances of Palestinians, so any violent response from them is greeted with horror and confusion and accusations of "tribalism"--a term I see people use mainly to describe conflixts they are too lazy to form an informed opinion on. "Who knows why they're fighting? It's all so senseless! Why are people so hateful?" And then go about their lives content in their lack of understanding.

Bold mine.

I wasn't talking about the current conflict as "perpetuating the cycle." I was talking about what would happen if hypothetically Palestine got their country that goes "From the River to the Sea." How would any other remaining religious, ethnic, sexual identity groups, etc., be treated by this Palestinian society? I was questioning the premise of the thread, which is that the victim internalizes the bullying behavior and goes on to bully others. This is not my premise. In the OP, Aspinator applied it specifically to Israel. You seemed to at least partly agree. AsPartofMe mentioned groups fleeing persecution and coming to America and you applied it to them as well. So does the premise of the thread also apply to Palestine? And if not, why doesn't it? How have they prevented internalizing the bullies' behavior?