Donald Trump Says He'll Flee to Venezuela If He Doesn't Win

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So, because I'm not mindlessly committed to the non-Trump candidate, I must therefore have an "obvious" disdain for the rule of law? Didn't Trump win the Republican nomination? If it were illegal for him to run, then how is it being allowed?


Saying the opposite of what you know is true - sweet sarcasm.



Well, let's start with some basics:

NYC did NOT prosecute Trump. NYC as a city doesn't prosecute anybody. No, NYC doesn't have a prosecutor's office, it has 5 prosecutor's offices / district attorneys - one for each borough. Each borough is a county in its own right, and under New York STATE law, each county must have its own prosecutor's office. Trump was prosecuted by the New York COUNTY (Borough of MANHATTAN) Prosecutor's Office (a.k.a. Manhattan District Attorney). Don't need to be a legal scholar, just watch a few episodes of Law and Order to understand how each borough of NYC has its own D.A.

If I can follow the accusations correctly, the charges were that Trump knew he was making payments to Cohen to reimburse him for paying off Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election. Also, there had to be some kind of understanding that there was a conspiracy of sorts to commit another crime - in this case violating New York State and Federal elections laws.

Now, first problem I have is this: If the STATE of New York wanted to investigate this further, then the Manhattan D.A. should have motioned to the STATE of New York to take the case. "We here in Manhattan believe Trump may have done things that violate State and Federal election laws."

Even that's iffy, as it's the Federal government that regulates FEDERAL elections. But I can understand the STATE possibly investigating. But definitely not the local county D.A.

If Trump had done some graffiti tagging in Manhattan, or urinated publicly in Manhattan, or even tried to meddle in a CITY election (as if he were running for borough president or city council), then, YES, the Manhattan D.A. could bring charges against him. It's their jurisdiction, that's their prerogative.

But to try to say, "We think this was all hush money which violates FEDERAL election laws and we think Trump and Cohen were conspiring and violating FEDERAL election laws, and we think the accountant/bookkeeper who wrote the checks may have been in Manhattan some of the time when this happened, so we're going to prosecute a prospective FEDERAL and STATE case in a local court," is downright unAmerican.

Also, if they're going to play this game, shouldn't they also prosecute Stormy Daniels for agreeing to take the bribe in the first place?? She's a criminal too, by the Manhattan D.A.'s rationale, yet they made her the star witness. It was a joke. It's like they just make the rules up arbitrarily, and these weren't even their rules to concern themselves with.

That's the thing. For my criticisms of Trump and Biden, I don't think ANYBODY deserves an unAmerican kangaroo trial, an assassination attempt, or (in Biden's case) to be propped up and then suddenly discarded by one's own party like that.

And, again, WHO is Kamala Harris? Why should I vote for her? Not knocking her, but I ZERO list.

I have a Trump list.
I HAD a Biden list, now that's gone.
Someone give me a Kam list.

you're seriously considering voting for someone who tried to steal an election, and who inspired a mob to attack Capital Hill...a mob who tried to lynch Trump's own vice president.

Ergo...who have contempt for democracy and the rule of law. End of discussion. You havent refuted that.

Biden's not in the shadows, he's just free to conduct the business of government while his VP stands in the limelight.
Biden has accomplished a whole lot, with infrastructure, getting us past the Covid pandemic, revitalizing job growth and the economy, saving Ukraine from a shared enemy, regained the respect and trust of our allies, behaved as a respectable Commander-In-Chief instead of a petulant three year old, and so forth.
I disagree that you are acting adversarial, as it's clear you support Trump.

I work with a die-hard Trump fanatic who calls me an "obvious" Biden-worshipper. It's funny how you cultists can't be neutral toward either party.

I gotta say - while I don't like Putin and see him as a glorified dictator, on paper he's still our "ally." And that is as much true under Trump and now under Biden as would be under a potential Kamala. We're in a new cold war, but not literal war with Russia. And ditto for China. I don't like our arrangement, but more than half the stuff we consume is from China and they're our friends on-paper. As true under Trump, and now Biden, and a possible Kamala.

I always felt bad for Biden, saw it as elder abuse. He acted like a lost old man. Love or hate his politics, the individual clearly isn't fit to lead the Free World and NOW the party bosses are demanding he step down after propping him up. Which bugs me. They should have known he wasn't fit -OR- not pushed his re-election so hard just to do an about-face. We've signaled to our enemies that we have weak leadership. That's how I feel about the Democratic Party bosses. Not Biden himself, not Democratic voters, but the party machine. They've played a terrible game at Biden's expense, and it's disgusting.

The economy is also in shambles. I don't actually blame Biden (or Trump). I don't think we ever bounced back from the pandemic and all these illegals are changing the market and demand for labor.

Biden should resign now, make Kamala president. Let's see her as POTUS for a few months before election. I'm dead serious. Biden is just a figurehead now who's out to pasture. Make Kamala president now. Let's have POTUS vs. POTUS in November!

Last edited by ezbzbfcg2 on 27 Aug 2024, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

You asked me to explain what I didn't like about the way in which Trump was prosecuted. Which I did, and you quickly ran away from. What also troubles me is how many people don't follow the story, even though it was in the news day after day after day after day.

@Kraichgauer believed Trump was tried by the STATE. You thought he was tried by the city. He was tried by the Manhattan borough D.A. for a crime beyond their scope.

Whether you agree or disagree that Trump is guilty of a crime, at least know WHAT happened and who is responsible/not responsible for bringing charges against such a crime. I'm not in love with Trump. If it were a FEDERAL or even STATE trial, I'd say they had a case. I don't believe it was the business of the local Manhattan D.A. I think Bragg was trying to make a name for himself by playing on emotions. People like you help fuel corrupt prosecutors like him.

Now, the January 6th thing was deplorable; Trump acted irresponsibly. But that wasn't a coup. A bunch of rioters aren't going to completely take over the massive machine that is the Federal government by smashing some windows at the Capitol. Bad behavior, many of them have been arrested and jailed. But stop pretending the WHOLE Federal government and agencies would have been in the hands of rag-tag rioters. It's getting very silly and shows what little faith people have in the MASSIVE apparatus that is the Federal government.

I would also say 2020 was like 2000 - it was a very close and contestable election. In 1996, there was no question Clinton won by a landslide. Even 2004, as surprising as it may have seemed, went solidly for W. 2000 and 2020 were two of the closest elections in recent history.

Had 2020 been a normal year, we'd probably have recounts and Supreme Court intervention like 2000. But 2020 was the wackiest year of anyone's lifetime alive currently. The riots that summer and the Capitol riots in Jan. 2021 were a manifestation of that. That vote was so close and suddenly switched to Biden last minute after Philadelphia and Atlanta came in. Now, I'm not saying Trump won or that something fishy happened. What I am saying is that any party in a normal year would have every right to request a recount, like Gore did in 2000 when it was THAT CLOSE.

And in 2020, some states forced mail-in voting only, which added to the increased likelihood of miscounting. The whole 2020 election process seemed very un-democratic to me.

No, I don't think Trump is anti-rule of law. He didn't flee to Venezuela or Russia when the Manhattan D.A. put him on trial, he's not in favor of Putin's actions in the Ukraine. I think he felt snubbed being the loser in a very close election in a very screwy year. And, had he one, I'd expect Biden to be equally angry and demand some kind of recount. I think either party, Biden or Trump, had every right to raise an eyebrow after losing such a narrow margin in a bizarre election cycle where it took abnormally long to count the votes.

So, ultimatlely, Biden doesn't even count anymore. He should be pissed at what his party bosses did to him. I'd be pissed to if I were Biden. You know he wants to be POTUS for another term.

I'm still not getting an answer to my question about Kamala, who she is, what she stands for. What I'm getting is "Anyone but Trump!" Which sounds no different than the pro-Trump people I work with who say, "It's MUST be Trump!"

Hence, only us middle-of-the-roader apoliticals are truly neutral and open minded. It's hard dealing with cultist fanatics. Trump, to his credit, makes a good cult leader. There's the Cult of Trump, and the Cult of Anti-Trump. To me, Trump is just some guy. Kamala is an unknown.

Biden should resign immediately; I want to see POTUS Kamala in action.

There is no Biden cult of personality like there is with Trump. Defending Biden is hardly the same thing as the worshipful adulation Trump gets as "the Chosen One."
When has Putin been our ally? He's purposely working against our country on the world scene, while we've been aiding the country he's invaded.
Biden's mental slowing down is more recent, as he's proven he's a capable chief executive. Word has since gotten out about Trump's White House, in which he's clearly demented, wanting to nuke the North Korean army during a military parade, to wanting to send in military strikes against drug dealers in Mexico, which is an actual ally.
The economy isn't in shambles. Compared to the rest of the world, we're doing great. If anything, it's big business taking advantage of the post pandemic times and gouging the rest of us.
Biden doesn't need to step down for Harris to take the reigns of power, as she's ahead in the polls against Trump.

I agree with you 1000% on both accounts, which is why I hate being accused of being part of Trump's cult of personality. I see it with co-workers. I agree, Trump has a Cult of Personality AND and a Cult of anti-Personality. I don't want to join either cult. And, at this point, Biden himself is irrelevant as he's withdrawn and is now a self-created lame-duck president.


Again, I agree with you. Putin is a glorified dictator. He's not a true ally. He's openly lamented the collapse of Communism and the USSR. But he's been in power since the last day of 1999. Clinton, W., Obama, Trump, and even Biden all courted him because we're not OPEN enemies the way we are with North Korea or Iran. Putin is what we call a "frenemy." So, we either say "We are enemies," or we try diplomacy. I don't actually fault Trump or any other president for an attempt at diplomacy if we're trying to be friends with him. I don't call it "footsie," I call it diplomacy. Until someone (Trump/Biden/Kamala) wants to say "Putin is out enemy," I can't fault ANY American president for at least trying to talk to him. But, I agree with you, I don't like/trust Putin and I never did. Especially since his nonsense in Georgia in the latter days of W. I admired W. for wanting to open those NATO missile bases in Poland and the Baltic states to stick it to our non-ally frenemy Putin; OBAMA undid all of that.

He's been mentally unfit since at least 2019. The American people see it. The CULT of Democratic Party Bosses may have told you otherwise, but many Americans who can't even stand Trump have realized Biden has been mentally unfit since day one and getting worse week-by-week.


Did any of those things actually happen during Trump's presidency? All of this alleged gossip seems kind of silly.


Yeah, compared to the rest of the world, we've been doing great for over 100 years. In modern times, compared to recent yesteryear, the economy is in the gutter, and we all feel it.


Why doesn't she take the reigns now? Biden has self-declared himself unfit, so he should step down and let POTUS Harris go to work.

Cult of Trump
Cult of Anti-Trump

It's hard talking with cultists of either variety.

Biden has his senior moments, but he's also been an effective President.
How has Putin been a friend at all? For years, he's interfered in our and our friends' elections. He's made statements of how the fall of the Soviet Union and loss of Russian international prestige is the greatest tragedy in history, and how he means to get revenge on the west - in particular the USA - for causing it.
Regardless if the economy is bad right now, it isn't going to remain that way forever.
Harris will never force Biden out, as she understands loyalty and friendship.

This post is all self-contradictory gibberish.

By accusing me of "using sarcasm" you yourself admit that you dont know jack about the US legal system, and so you slit your own throat and demolished yourself. You did the "running away".Not me. You admitted you dont know what your talking about...so I have no reason to respond to your statements about the subject.

Trump tried to steal the 2020 election, and inspired a mob to attack the Capitol and to lynch Trump's own vice president. So how is Trump NOT a threat to the rule of law and of democracy? Could you please explain that to us?

And when you're done explaining that then explain why Trump continues to spread the big lie that Biden stole the 2020 election...claims so against all evidence... and does it for the sole purpose of undermining faith in democratic process... explain how he is still NOT a threat to democracy?

And "find 11,780 Georgia votes for me". How did that phone call not show that Trump is a threat to democracy?

Your contention is that this is just another one of your father's/grandfather's American elections. An election in which both parties act like political parties. But you contradict yourself by admitting that the GOP does not act like a poltical party...that its now a gutted version of its self and is a personality cult of Trump. The Dems have no choice but to be the alternative.

@Kraichgauer:

I'm simply going to repost what I already wrote, which your yourself quoted but obviously didn't even read, then I won't bother with you anymore. It's like I deal with these Trump cultists at work, then I deal with Anybody-but Cultists here. No one actually wants to have a conversation.

Again, I agree with you. Putin is a glorified dictator. He's not a true ally. He's openly lamented the collapse of Communism and the USSR. But he's been in power since the last day of 1999. Clinton, W., Obama, Trump, and even Biden all courted him because we're not OPEN enemies the way we are with North Korea or Iran. Putin is what we call a "frenemy." So, we either say "We are enemies," or we try diplomacy. I don't actually fault Trump or any other president for an attempt at diplomacy if we're trying to be friends with him. I don't call it "footsie," I call it diplomacy. Until someone (Trump/Biden/Kamala) wants to say "Putin is out enemy," I can't fault ANY American president for at least trying to talk to him. But, I agree with you, I don't like/trust Putin and I never did. Especially since his nonsense in Georgia in the latter days of W. I admired W. for wanting to open those NATO missile bases in Poland and the Baltic states to stick it to our non-ally frenemy Putin; OBAMA undid all of that.

I didn't accuse you of using sarcasm. I flat-out observed it.

I'm not a legal expert and never claimed to be. And you know this. Saying, "you are apparently also a legal scholar and legal expert and apparently you must have passed the bar exam. / We are all honored by the presence of a legal expert like yourself. / So...why dont you share your expertise with us?" when you know I'm not really a legal scholar (and you know I never said anything to the contrary) is text-book sarcasm, saying the opposite of what is true in a mocking tone. I can handle sarcasm; I take it your upset for being called out for using sarcasm(?). I don't know.


run away, run away....fine, let's not talk about it. I'll let you run from it. Fine. End of discussion.


I'm not a Trumpist. I don't like that he incited that mob. But I don't believe he ever said, "I command you all to go to the Capitol and murder someone." A real coup is when a strongman has military support behind him and power is taken by force. Not an angry mob smashing windows.

Jan 6, 2021 reminds me of two things - when comedienne Kathy Griffin uploaded that photo of a decapitated Trump mannequin. Some Republicans said it was treasonous and that she should be prosecuted. I felt it was in bad taste, but clearly within the bounds of free speech. Also, when Andrew Jackson won and his fervent supporters made a mess at the White House back in the late 1820s or early 1830s. Jan. 2021 - There was some rioting. Trump's behavior was in bad taste, but not un-American and he didn't stage a coup. I believe that everybody, both Trump and Kathy Griffin, have rights and can express themselves. Doesn't mean I agree with either of them. But I see no blatant coup like in some Latin American banana republic or 3rd world African country.



I'm in my 40s. Some call me late Gen X. Others say I'm early Millennial. I like the term Xennial or what we used to call Gen Y (analog childhood and teenage years, suddenly digital as a I entered adulthood). My parents, like you, are in their late 60s/early 70s (babyboomers). My grandparents (your parents) were of the "greatest generation" who grew up in the Depression and fought WW2.

I think the most un-democratic times in any of our lifetimes was the COVID-19/Corona Virus LOCKDOWN period. You have a quarter century on me, but I don't believe your generation or the generation before ever saw anything as un-American as the LOCKDOWNS. And I'm old enough to be able to say that I haven't either, never did I think it could happen in America. This isn't the America that my babyboomer parents and teachers taught me about, nor my Great Depression/WW2 grandparents ever spoke of. It was Bizarro America.

Some guy named Faucci effectively became a dictator. States and counties/cities became like little feifdoms with their leaders imposing restrictions that varied wildly from location to location. Checks-and-balances, what the USA is predicated upon, all suddenly went out the window. It was the most un-American time in any of our lives. And, again, I get cultists of both extremes lecturing me. Some say I'm one of these "koolaid drinkers" who doesn't believe in COVID or vaccinations. Others say the opposite, and they lecture me on how COVID isn't real and all made up and the vaccinations are poison.

REALITY: COVID is indeed real. I myself had it. I worry about long-term effects for all of us. But, in the short-run, it wasn't worth the disaster of shutting down society and restricting freedom the way we did. I don't blame Trump (or Biden, or Obama). I blame the way the whole thing was handled top-down.

So, point is, 2020-2021 was the most un-American time of any of our lifetimes. Several states required mail-in ONLY voting since it was so "unsafe" to go to the polls and vote in a democratic election. Again, mail-in voting is fine if one opts for it, but to hastily make it compulsory is unprecedented. Never before to my knowledge. Were these states ready to count THAT MANY sudden mail-in ballots?? In a situation like that, with a very tight election, I wouldn't blame the loser (whether it be Trump or Biden) for contesting the results.

Gore contested the 2000 election --and rightfully so-- I feel Trump had the same right. Had it been a Regan/Mondale win for Biden, I'd agree with you entirely. But a democratic election THAT close in the most un-democratic period in American history, I see the whole thing as part of the Corona Panic/Hysteria/F'd-up-ness and don't blame the loser for raising hell over the results. I don't blame Trump...not because I LOVE and WORSHIP him. I wouldn't blame Biden doing the same thing if he'd lost over a few thousand votes. 2000 - Florida - hanging chads. That was my first election, I remember. You were my age then, you most certainly remember.


Hyperbolic exaggeration. No, not sticking up for Trump. There is a scumbag nature to him. (Biden as well, but it manifests differently. Don't know about Kamala, as I know nothing about her really).

But if the election comes down to a mere 12,000 votes, there's a MAJOR room for error and miscounting. Like Democrat Gore, Republican Trump should have requested a recount. But he really couldn't, because we were in un-American, un-democratic, fiefdom dictatorship CORONA VIRUS pandemic-panic LOCKDOWN mode. So, I understand where Trump, or Gore, or ANY OTHER POLITICIAN of any party would be coming from if losing THAT narrowly, especially in a screwy and un-democratic time like 2020.


Okay, I don't care about how the Republican Party acts. I don't care that you say 'the Dems have no choice.' I'm not voting for a PARTY. I'm voting for a PERSON. In that sense, this is still a normal election.

I'm guessing you were born ~1955. Your first presidential election was 1976 (Ford-Carter). Unless you were born at the end of 1954 and were eligible to vote in November of 1972 (Nixon vs McGovern). side note: that was my father's first election; he fondly remembers the slogan: Why pull out of a screw? Nixon '72!

Anyway, like 72/76, it's still up to the voter to pick a candidate. I can vote Kamala. I can vote Trump. I can vote 3rd Party. I can choose to not vote for a presidential candidate at all. Those are my 4 choices, as it's been since the days of Adams/Jefferson. I also think of my grandparents (your parents) who kept voting for FDR ad nauseum. While I don't fully blame them, in 1944 he was a dying old man and they still elected him for a forth time. It ultimately necessitated term limits on how long someone can serve. That generation seemed happy to vote for perpetually entrenched dictatorships.

Partywise, I think the GOP saw that Trump was the favorite. You saw how quickly everyone else dropped out (sans Nikki Haley) when it became obvious. So, as parties do, the GOP is putting all its support into Trump, which is understandable.

I'm dismayed by the "Donkey Kong Machine" for so staunchly backing Biden to then turn around and throw him under the bus. It was disgusting and downright abuse of the elderly and the clearly senile. I think they should have told Biden much, much earlier they weren't going to support him and presented VP Kamala to the American people much, much earlier. They didn't, because Biden had name-brand recognition AND no one knows anything about Kamala. Oh, I can't say I blame them, it makes sense. But, as a moderate voter, it was disgusting and misleading and is causing me to distrust the Democratic machine this election cycle. They've kind of shown me they don't know how to pick a candidate. It they propped up Biden only to discard them, how can I trust they've now picked a worthy candidate?? No one can give me an answer.

I wasnt being sarcastic. I sincerely wanted you to share your obvious expertise on the US court system. Now you're admitting that you dont have any.

Where is your evidence that Biden is in the same league of sleaze as Trump?

The GOP got behind Trump, but Trump violates GOP values.

If you "kinda like Trump" then you cant call yourself a "moderate". Biden is a moderate. Trump is a radical out to subvert the rule of law and undo the Constitution.

Not an expert. If you want to enlighten me if I'm in error, then please do. I'm serious. If I'm wrong about something, explain. But all that stuff about me obviously being a legal scholar and how everyone was graced with my legalese presence seemed sarcastic.


No evidence. More of a sense that whereas Trump is the corrupt scummy businessman (I agree), Biden is the corrupt and entrenched career politician. Stereotypes - Trump is the fat cat scumbag making business deals from his office tower, Biden is the career politician making political deals in a smoky backroom at Tammany Hall.



If that's true, then the ONE THING Trump may have going for him is that he's the closest thing we've got to a 3rd party candidate. NOT saying Trump is a good guy, just that he offers an alternative to the RED/BLUE standard, which may be appealing to many.


I agree. Biden was more moderate than Trump, and I probably would have voted for Biden this November 2024. But that's just it. Biden is out of the picture. Just because the new candidate is Biden's VP and also a Democrat doesn't mean she is (or isn't) a moderate. I don't know who/what she is.

That's what I'm getting at. Biden, for better or worse, is out of the picture now. Who/what is Kamala?

And thank you, sir, for your response.

The difference is, Trump actually received help from Putin getting elected. We know this because the Mueller report made it clear there was evidence of this (despite Trump's claim Mueller cleared him of "collusion"), and that Putin had clearly interfered with the elections of other countries in the past. There is also the matter of how Trump had been financially rescued by Russian oligarchs answering to Putin at a time when no American bank would lend him money. Clearly, there is the danger that Putin is Trump's benefactor, to whom he is beholden. Proof of this is found in how Trump had clearly favored Russia in international matters, all the while trying to antagonize our NATO allies, all while laying the foundation for leaving that alliance.
Just because we have a diplomatic relationship with Russia hardly means they're any sort of "frenemy." Britain had kept up diplomacy with Hitler, up until the Nazi invasion of Poland, but that hardly made Hitler their friend. We talk to Russia because we want to avoid military conflict, not because we have any sort of friendship with Putin.
In regard to something you posted to Naturalplastics: no, the election was not so close that the results could be questioned. And that wasn't the matter which Trump was objecting to. He claimed outright that the Democrats had committed voter fraud, for which there is zero evidence to support his allegations. As far as Trump's coup is concerned: yes there was one, and it was more than just a mob of redneck fascists desecrating the capitol, along with plans to execute Pelosi, Schumer, and Pence. The whole convoluted plan was for the mob to terrorize congress into rescinding Biden's victory, then return the decision to the states where fake electors would give Trump his illegal victory. That is a coup.

Who or what is....Trump.... now?

He has been floundering around, and hurling epithets, without talking policy since Biden went. Flip-flopping. Denies knowing what the 2025 plan is even though his people drew it up. Boasts about being the arsonist who overturned Roe, but then promises to be a fireman who will contain the effects of the overturn...while picking a vp who is even more fanatically pro life than he and most of the religious right is. What does he stand for?

Kamala has spoken enough to give SOME sense of who she is (a slightly more progressive version of Biden basically).

I actually agree that both major parties seem to have become obsolete. Both parties had populist uprisings back in '16. The Dems by Bernie Sanders, and the GOP by Trump. Sanders was suppressed to benifit Hillary. The GOP became the cult of personality of Trump that it is today.

Even if Trump loses and even if he went quietly away this November... its hard to imagine the old school GOPers gathering the shattered pieces and rebuilding the GOP in the image of its former self. The GOP will either die out, or remain a MAGA cult. If the later then the rest of the nation will hafta stay behind the Dems to resist it. If the former then some real change for the good might come for this country.