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funeralxempire
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03 Sep 2024, 4:48 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
There's a lot I could say to rebut your claim of racism against whites being nonexistent. Unfortunately, a lot of my rebuttals would get removed.


funeralxempire wrote:
It's almost like you know they're going to rely on racist dog whistles.


SkinnyElephant wrote:
As for your comment "repeating a claim doesn't strengthen it," I could throw the same comment right back at you. Calling whites privileged, even if you say it a thousand times, doesn't automatically make it true.


See, your attempt to use this as a rebuttal only carries weight when people choose to ignore all the arguments made about why white privilege exists.

But, once we agree to just ignore those arguments because they're inconvenient for you, you're right that simply repeating the idea that white privilege exists isn't the same as making a valid case. Unfortunately for you many valid arguments in support of the idea of privilege existing have been made.

SkinnyElephant wrote:
On most internet platforms, you're not allowed to say anything negative about minorities (even if true). That's why I have a different online platform where I generally prefer to discuss racial politics (one of the rare internet platforms that allows both sides to speak our mind).

On a platform where only one side is allowed to speak their mind on racial politics, it's impossible to hold a genuine discussion.


This is just a lie, but it's the typical sort of lies white supremacists present in order to pretend like they're being persecuted for speaking their emotional truth rather than facing the consequences of spreading hate.


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03 Sep 2024, 6:55 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
There's a lot I could say to rebut your claim of racism against whites being nonexistent. Unfortunately, a lot of my rebuttals would get removed.


funeralxempire wrote:
It's almost like you know they're going to rely on racist dog whistles.


SkinnyElephant wrote:
As for your comment "repeating a claim doesn't strengthen it," I could throw the same comment right back at you. Calling whites privileged, even if you say it a thousand times, doesn't automatically make it true.


See, your attempt to use this as a rebuttal only carries weight when people choose to ignore all the arguments made about why white privilege exists.

But, once we agree to just ignore those arguments because they're inconvenient for you, you're right that simply repeating the idea that white privilege exists isn't the same as making a valid case. Unfortunately for you many valid arguments in support of the idea of privilege existing have been made.

SkinnyElephant wrote:
On most internet platforms, you're not allowed to say anything negative about minorities (even if true). That's why I have a different online platform where I generally prefer to discuss racial politics (one of the rare internet platforms that allows both sides to speak our mind).

On a platform where only one side is allowed to speak their mind on racial politics, it's impossible to hold a genuine discussion.


This is just a lie, but it's the typical sort of lies white supremacists present in order to pretend like they're being persecuted for speaking their emotional truth rather than facing the consequences of spreading hate.


I admit white household incomes are higher. I admit whites get incarcerated and shot by cops at a lower rate.

What good does that do when we aren't even allowed to rally around our political interests? And what good does that do when we get victimized by minorities at a much higher rate than vice versa?

Incidentally, the fact we're far more likely to get victimized by a black man than a black man is to get victimized by a white assailant is an example of a negative (but truthful) fact that gets censored on most internet platforms.

This isn't to say every black man is a racist criminal of course, but it indicates an alarming pattern (and what's even more alarming is the fact the media hides this pattern).

By the way, maybe the lopsided interracial crime statistics are the explanation for the higher black incarceration/police shooting rate (The fact black men are more likely to get arrested for marijuana than white men is beside the point. I'm discussing violent crime; not marijuana possession)



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03 Sep 2024, 7:03 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
I admit white household incomes are higher. I admit whites get incarcerated and shot by cops at a lower rate.
Inequities extend well beyond that according to the evidence I cited in this thread although there's much more I could provide.
SkinnyElephant wrote:
What good does that do when we aren't even allowed to rally around our political interests? And what good does that do when we get victimized by minorities at a much higher rate than vice versa?

Incidentally, the fact we're far more likely to get victimized by a black man than a black man is to get victimized by a white assailant is an example of a negative (but truthful) fact that gets censored on most internet platforms.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I will say that systemic racism leads to poverty and poverty leads to higher crime rates, so even if you can somehow prove that a higher percentage of people of a certain race commit a certain type of crime (taking into account systemic racism in policing and the criminal justice system), the root problem is still related to ongoing oppression and white privilege.



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03 Sep 2024, 7:06 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
I admit white household incomes are higher. I admit whites get incarcerated and shot by cops at a lower rate.
Inequities extend well beyond that according to the evidence I cited in this thread although there's much more I could provide.
SkinnyElephant wrote:
What good does that do when we aren't even allowed to rally around our political interests? And what good does that do when we get victimized by minorities at a much higher rate than vice versa?

Incidentally, the fact we're far more likely to get victimized by a black man than a black man is to get victimized by a white assailant is an example of a negative (but truthful) fact that gets censored on most internet platforms.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I will say that systemic racism leads to poverty and poverty leads to higher crime rates, so even if you can somehow prove that a higher percentage of people of a certain race commit a certain type of crime, the root problem is still related to ongoing oppression and white privilege.


Here's where your argument falls apart: Black Americans were way more oppressed during Jim Crow, yet committed violent crimes against us at a much lower rate.



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03 Sep 2024, 7:09 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
Here's where your argument falls apart: Black Americans were way more oppressed during Jim Crow, yet committed violent crimes against us at a much lower rate.


So clearly blacks need to be oppressed more, like with random vigilante lynchings like you've already advocated for.

And you wonder why your views might get your posts deleted or result in you being viewed in unsavoury ways.


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"Many of us like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now." —Former U.S. Airman (Air Force) Aaron Bushnell


TwilightPrincess
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03 Sep 2024, 7:13 pm

SkinnyElephant wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
I admit white household incomes are higher. I admit whites get incarcerated and shot by cops at a lower rate.
Inequities extend well beyond that according to the evidence I cited in this thread although there's much more I could provide.
SkinnyElephant wrote:
What good does that do when we aren't even allowed to rally around our political interests? And what good does that do when we get victimized by minorities at a much higher rate than vice versa?

Incidentally, the fact we're far more likely to get victimized by a black man than a black man is to get victimized by a white assailant is an example of a negative (but truthful) fact that gets censored on most internet platforms.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I will say that systemic racism leads to poverty and poverty leads to higher crime rates, so even if you can somehow prove that a higher percentage of people of a certain race commit a certain type of crime, the root problem is still related to ongoing oppression and white privilege.


Here's where your argument falls apart: Black Americans were way more oppressed during Jim Crow, yet committed violent crimes against us at a much lower rate.
What do you mean by "us?" I don't see things in terms of "us vs. them." We're all human. Starting from that premise is prudent. It makes it much easier to recognize and understand societal problems and to understand behavior.

You keep on making assertions without backing them up with a damn bit of evidence which makes it a bit of a challenge to address them.



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03 Sep 2024, 8:06 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
What do you mean by "us?" I don't see things in terms of "us vs. them." We're all human. Starting from that premise is prudent. It makes it much easier to recognize and understand societal problems and to understand behavior.

You keep on making assertions without backing them up with a damn bit of evidence which makes it a bit of a challenge to address them.


For the vast majority of whites, racial identity isn't important (which is a large part of why we ended up in the mess we're currently in). So it doesn't surprise me to find out you don't think in terms of "in-group vs out-group"

A survey found that racial identity is important to most minorities, however:

Image


I am in the 5% of whites where my racial identity is extremely important to me (Because of all the disrespect/threats I've faced for the color of my skin. I've seen firsthand what happens when other ethnic groups are encouraged to develop a healthy racial identity, while we're encouraged to be colorblind. In turn, I ended up developing a healthy racial identity).

The 2 positions I ended up in where I could have died for the color of my skin weren't financially-motivated in any way. They didn't want my money or belongings; they were motivated by no other factor than pure racial hatred (In other words, the "poverty drives crime" explanation doesn't work. "Poverty drives crime" could explain muggings, robberies, shoplifting, etc...but it couldn't explain non-financial crimes).

As for my assertion violent crime from minorities against our people was way less common in the old days, crime statistics that old are admittedly hard to come by. I've researched American racial history extensively, however. Other than the white vs indigenous frontier disputes, there are relatively few examples mentioned of whites facing brutality from minorities in the old days (with the relatively few examples typically being followed by a lynching).

With how racist American society was against minorities back then, surely it would be front page news in the history books if there were an epidemic of whites facing brutality from minorities in the old days.



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03 Sep 2024, 8:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
Here's where your argument falls apart: Black Americans were way more oppressed during Jim Crow, yet committed violent crimes against us at a much lower rate.


So clearly blacks need to be oppressed more, like with random vigilante lynchings like you've already advocated for.

And you wonder why your views might get your posts deleted or result in you being viewed in unsavoury ways.


Obviously I'm aware anyone attending a rally that advocates for a return to lynchings should fully expect to get fired from a job.

Protesting against demographic change (for example) shouldn't get one fired from a job, however (Yet it unfortunately does. We're allowed to protest against climate change but not demographic change. Go figure)



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03 Sep 2024, 8:23 pm

I'm just seeing more pointless assumptions about how things "surely" were. No one is suggesting that white people experienced an "epidemic" of violent crimes from minorities now or in the past. The only point that was made is that there is a relationship between crime and poverty. Obviously, most oppressed, poor people do not commit violent crimes.

It's not surprising to me at all that minorities would be more likely to consider their race or ethnicity as a central part of their identity. There's a lot to be said for cultural heritage. That was especially important during the time of slavery when people were forced from their homelands, culture, and way of life, and it continues to be important. It's also applicable to indigenous people. Further, it makes sense that immigrants and children of immigrants (etc.) would want to preserve their culture when general American culture may be quite a bit different and not feel quite like home otherwise. Also, when people are oppressed as various minorities are here, it's a normal human tendency to bond with folks who experience the same, systemic oppression and who share the same cultural background, mother tongue, religion, etc.

I found this article about race interesting. Reading it in its entirety using the link below might be worthwhile.

Quote:
The scientific consensus about “race” today is that it is a fundamentally social rather than biological construct. The differences in superficial secondary characteristics such as skin color and hair texture across different “racial” groups do not correlate with underlying fundamental biological differences. Given human migrations over tens of thousands of years, each group defined by geographic ancestry reflects extensive genetic admixture across and within continents/regions. For example, Baharian et al. estimated that African Americans today have approximately 16.7% European ancestry; Solovieff et al. concluded that African Americans have “from 20 to 30% admixture with Europeans.”

Despite this knowledge, in official U.S. public health classifications, “Hispanic” or “Latino” is regarded as an ethnic group, whose members can be of any “race,” while African American/Black, American Indian/Alaska Native, Asian, Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander, and European American/White are classified as “races.” There is no scientific basis for considering African Americans, Indigenous peoples, Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders, and European Americans to be “races,” not ethnic groups, while viewing Hispanics/Latinos as an ethnic group but not a “race.” All of these groupings reflect geographic ancestry. The continued distinction between “race” and “ethnicity” only serves to underscore the implication that “race” reflects biological differences.

The continued use of the term “race” is by no means the only or even the principal obstacle to addressing racism. It is, however, a significant obstacle because it is irremediably imbued with scientifically unfounded but nevertheless tenacious notions of biological differences and hierarchy which have long served to justify exploitation and oppression.

Is there just one race—the human race? Or are there intrinsically different groups of humans who are biologically distinct from each other? Despite extensive scientific evidence to the contrary, there has been a long-standing, widely held, deeply rooted, and unfounded belief that “race,” as reflected by skin color, hair texture, facial features and other superficial secondary physical characteristics, reflects fundamental biological differences. That is a convenient idea to hold if one wants to justify treating some people as undeserving of equal rights, autonomy, and respect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8452910/

SkinnyElephant wrote:
I've seen firsthand what happens when other ethnic groups are encouraged to develop a healthy racial identity, while we're encouraged to be colorblind.
This is simply not the case. The intermingling over the centuries of various European cultures is largely what general American culture is about. (Obviously, many folks from European countries still uphold disparate traditions from their country of origin. There are regional differences in the US, too. Here, I'm focusing on American culture in a broad sense.) We don't need to uphold "white identity" because our culture is overwhelmingly about white identity - the social construct. On a personal note, I really enjoy experiencing other cultures. It adds to the richness and beauty of life. I don't think that "us vs. them" is a good way to see cultural and ethnic differences. We're all slightly different, but we're all people.



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04 Sep 2024, 6:19 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
I thought things wouldn't get much more bizarre after you'd supported lynching -
SkinnyElephant wrote:
Furthermore, in the society I envision, it wouldn't matter if the victim didn't report the crime. Anyone who witnessed the crime (and wanted justice for the victim) would get a free pass to organize a public execution.
and advocated public executions, period - yet your arguments continue to be anecdotal assertions masquerading as facts.
More to the point, there is a racist undertone throughout and that can't be allowed to continue.

Thread locked.


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