How Mass Illegal Immigration impacts citizens with autism

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Kraichgauer
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02 Oct 2024, 4:06 pm

America has always had both legal and illegal immigration. Unlike, say countries in Europe or most other places, we Americans aren't just one specific tribe but are from everywhere; our diversity is our identity. That's not to say we haven't had the curse of nativism in our history, as every new group coming in has been seen as "the other" by reactionary elements. Very often, this is based on ugly ethnic or religious prejudice. Eventually, the "other," whether they be Germans, Irish, Africans, Chinese, or Haitians, become accepted as Americans by most, with each adding to America's cultural tapestry. And without immigration, with falling birthrates, who's going to pay for our social security when we're old and demented?


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03 Oct 2024, 10:06 am

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Of course, this thread is full of the usual predictable responses, like

“Immigrants contribute to the economy”

My response to that: You can’t make a blanket assertion like that, because several immigrants actually take more from the economy than they give.



Citation needed.

How exactly is that possible? They don’t qualify for anything and yet their taxes are taken out of their checks automatically.

Again, you think employers are explicitly exempting their illegal immigrant workers from automatic tax deductions in their payroll? And risking getting caught by the tax man and immigration?

Do you think the government won’t take illegal immigrant money? As if the government cares!

Your math doesn’t add up.

slam_thunderhide wrote:

“Don’t blame the immigrants, blame the government”

My response to that: Why can’t we blame both? That seems to be what the OP is doing anyway.



No, it’s pretty obvious that both OP and you think that once the immigrants are kicked out, everything will be “fine”.

But they won’t be, because the actual core issues will still be there, completely unaddressed.

But hey, you’ll feel better so I guess there’s that.

slam_thunderhide wrote:

And here’s a response I didn’t see coming: “Illegal immigrants and autistic people aren’t competing for the same jobs anyway”

My response to that: That’s nothing but an unsubstantiated assertion produced for the sake of contradicting the OP. Are we really supposed to believe no autistic person has ever tried to get a job as a fruit-picker or delivery driver?



I literally pasted a link to a source for my assertion. Not my fault you failed to click it.

slam_thunderhide wrote:

I predict that this thread will eventually be closed, and will be shortly followed by someone starting yet another new thread asking something along the lines of, “what on earth makes right-wingers feel they’re being silenced?” :lol:


Typical right wing garbage right here. “They don’t agree with me, therefore I’m being censored / silenced!”

Uhh no

Disagreement is not the same as “being silenced”. Your post is right here for all to see, no censorship or “silencing”. Not being deleted. Still 100% readable.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:

Opposition to uncontrolled immigration is inherently communist and anti-American.


Remarkable. You don’t even support any controls on immigration at all. Even the most fanatical establishment neoliberals rarely come out with statements like this.

I honestly think a large part of your open borders fanaticism is just a matter of status-signalling. Only low status people complain about immigration, right? People who complain about immigration just want to blame others for their personal inadequacies – isn’t that how the cliché goes?

By the way, the OP’s reference to communism might have been inappropriate, but you throwing that word back in their face is even more ridiculous. I guess most of Western Europe prior to WW2 was communist by your definition, and so has Japan been for pretty much all its history.

Anyway, it’s kind of amusing seeing a socially liberal Brit accusing others of being “communist” and “un-American”, like some sort of John Bircher American conservative.

The_Walrus wrote:
If you don't like immigration, you can always move to North Korea, where there is very little immigration.


Firstly, this sort of rhetoric is a typically lazy, tabloid-esque way of dismissing a person’s complaints about their own society, and I’m surprised to see you use it.

[Cf. “You have some issues with capitalism? Move to Cuba!” – “You have a problem with big government? Move to Somalia!” – “You think there’s too much religion in your society? Move to China!” – “You think there’s not enough religion in your society? Move to Saudi Arabia!]

Secondly, although I can’t tell if this really applies in the OP’s case, telling someone who complains about immigration to move somewhere (anywhere) where immigration is low usually just reveals a total lack of understanding about the complaints in the first place, and an inability to see human beings as anything more than economic units. Many people oppose immigration because they want to live around people similar to themselves, because they’d rather feel part of a community than feeling like a mere cog in the economy.

Thirdly, your suggestion is amusingly self-contradictory. Since North Korea has virtually no immigration, people from the West cannot “always move” there – in fact, it would be very difficult for them to do so.


This post is 100% drama.



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03 Oct 2024, 3:09 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

I honestly think a large part of your open borders fanaticism is just a matter of status-signalling. Only low status people complain about immigration, right?

No, and I think it's pretty classist to suggest such a thing. There are plenty of "low status" people who are liberal, tolerant, and open-minded. There are plenty of high-status people who are small-minded, nationalist, and intolerant - Boris Johnson, Kemi Badenoch, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray... Heck, there's a case that the anti-immigration movement is primarily driven by multi-millionaires.

The "high status" thing to do is to say "it's not racist to be against immigration" and "we need reasonable controls", and other virtue-signalling lies.



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03 Oct 2024, 3:56 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
No, and I think it's pretty classist to suggest such a thing. There are plenty of "low status" people who are liberal, tolerant, and open-minded. There are plenty of high-status people who are small-minded, nationalist, and intolerant - Boris Johnson, Kemi Badenoch, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray... Heck, there's a case that the anti-immigration movement is primarily driven by multi-millionaires.

The "high status" thing to do is to say "it's not racist to be against immigration" and "we need reasonable controls", and other virtue-signalling lies.


I feel like it's significantly those guys using immigrants as a distraction so that regular people don't pay enough attention to the crooks making off with all the money.


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05 Oct 2024, 11:24 pm

GoldTails95 wrote:
https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-aliens-taking-us-jobs
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... e-believe/
According to ASAN, autistic adults who are US citizens and legal residents were already having considerate socio-economic barriers (namely stigma and lower wages than nondisabled NTs) in the first place waaaaay before Biden and Harris started opening the border allowing countless 10s of millions illegal aliens to enter the US and steal jobs from U.S. citizens. This is another proof that once again, the mainstream socialist/communist Democrat party of the U.S. have been proven to be backstabbers for Americans with disabilities. And I'm tired of being silent so I see the proof of test of time.
This fact that jobs in the community that citizens and legal residents with I/DD and autism are obviously the prime ways that these adults, like us, can live and sustain ourselves in the community, instead of sheltered workshops or institution colonies, are being taken by illegal aliens, undermines the Olmstead v. L.C. (1999) promise.

Thank you for posting this I couldn't agree with you more. One thing that particularly pisses me off is that immigrants take low level jobs in the service and labour industries that are often filled by people with disabilities and teenagers looking for their first job. And yes I agree we already had it hard enough before the housing and cost of living crisis.



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05 Oct 2024, 11:30 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
I live in Canada, not that anyone cares. I'm worried that eventually it will be too expensive for anyone but very rich people to live up here or buy food. It might even be turning into a third-world country. But no one cares, they only care about what's happening in the USA.

Typical American Exceptionalism. :x


It's nice to know that I'm not the only Canadian thinking this way.

I feel that this has been planned and not an example of incompetence as many mainstream conservatives do. The Canadian government is doing a very good job of making native born Canadians into second class citizens.



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05 Oct 2024, 11:43 pm

bsickler wrote:
Eh, I’ll bite

The problems that come with immigration are failures of government, not failures of the immigrants.

Housing wouldn’t be an issue if we had Japanese style zoning implemented at a state or province level.

Jobs wouldn’t be an issue long term because immigrants are significantly more likely to be business owners and to hire people than the native population. Let migrants start businesses and they can literally make their own jobs.

Taxes are a non-issue as even illegal immigrants pay sales taxes, income taxes, social security (in the us), etc. pulled out of their checks automatically. What do you guys seriously think employers are going to exempt their illegal employees from payroll taxes? And risk getting caught by the IRS and immigration?

So They do not have a choice in the matter. They pay taxes automatically. But unlike citizens, they get zero credits for it, so when they file taxes (which they often do, because many intend to become legal at some point and they think paying taxes helps them) they get nothing back- no credits or anything. In the US, they use an IRS pin to file taxes instead of a social security number.

You guys seriously think the government cares about where your money comes from? The government will happily take your money even if you’re not here legally. They love taking money and then not having to give anything back.

Integration isn’t an issue, at least in the US, as the migrants we get are already culturally similar to us. In Canada, the situation is different, but could’ve been resolved by mandatory classes on Canadian culture and history. Again, government failure.

Finally, for other people with ASD, exactly what kind of work are immigrants taking that people with ASD would do / would be negatively affected by?

The only thing I can think of is tech, but that’s an H1-B visa problem- again, a government failure, not a failure on the (in this case, 100% legal) migrant.

All of the above are government failures, not failures of immigrants. Most immigrants come here intending to work and make money. They know the deal.

The problem is that the government continuously fails to make necessary changes and so that results in problems.

We should be pushing the government to make necessary changes rather than blaming immigrants for the problem of the week, but that’s hard and it’s a lot easier to just blame others rather than actually doing the work to change things.


I don't know how it works in the US, but in Canada employers pay illegals in cash since you need a SIN number to work and pay taxes.



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06 Oct 2024, 12:01 pm

Canadian Freedom Lover wrote:
bsickler wrote:
Eh, I’ll bite

The problems that come with immigration are failures of government, not failures of the immigrants.

Housing wouldn’t be an issue if we had Japanese style zoning implemented at a state or province level.

Jobs wouldn’t be an issue long term because immigrants are significantly more likely to be business owners and to hire people than the native population. Let migrants start businesses and they can literally make their own jobs.

Taxes are a non-issue as even illegal immigrants pay sales taxes, income taxes, social security (in the us), etc. pulled out of their checks automatically. What do you guys seriously think employers are going to exempt their illegal employees from payroll taxes? And risk getting caught by the IRS and immigration?

So They do not have a choice in the matter. They pay taxes automatically. But unlike citizens, they get zero credits for it, so when they file taxes (which they often do, because many intend to become legal at some point and they think paying taxes helps them) they get nothing back- no credits or anything. In the US, they use an IRS pin to file taxes instead of a social security number.

You guys seriously think the government cares about where your money comes from? The government will happily take your money even if you’re not here legally. They love taking money and then not having to give anything back.

Integration isn’t an issue, at least in the US, as the migrants we get are already culturally similar to us. In Canada, the situation is different, but could’ve been resolved by mandatory classes on Canadian culture and history. Again, government failure.

Finally, for other people with ASD, exactly what kind of work are immigrants taking that people with ASD would do / would be negatively affected by?

The only thing I can think of is tech, but that’s an H1-B visa problem- again, a government failure, not a failure on the (in this case, 100% legal) migrant.

All of the above are government failures, not failures of immigrants. Most immigrants come here intending to work and make money. They know the deal.

The problem is that the government continuously fails to make necessary changes and so that results in problems.

We should be pushing the government to make necessary changes rather than blaming immigrants for the problem of the week, but that’s hard and it’s a lot easier to just blame others rather than actually doing the work to change things.


I don't know how it works in the US, but in Canada employers pay illegals in cash since you need a SIN number to work and pay taxes.


So there are three well known methods here.

The first is for the illegal immigrant to use a fake or stolen social security number. I assume this is also happens in Canada, with an SIN.

In that case, taxes are taken out normally as if they were here legally. The migrant usually doesn’t file taxes in this case. (what’s the point? They won’t get anything anyway and they already paid taxes automatically through payroll).

The next is paying in cash, aka “under the table” in the US.

However, employers can only do this for so long until the IRS catches a mismatch between their reported revenue and their payroll taxes. Once a high enough delta is reached, the employer ends up highly likely to get audited and ends up responsible for all of the missed payroll taxes, plus interest.

This is an enormous pain for employers, so historically, employers would actually generate a check with all taxes taken out, then cash out the check and give the cash to the migrant. Once again, taxes paid.

Employers hate cash now though, so a more common tactic these days is to illegally put people on a 1099 and make employees responsible for their own taxes.

However, in order to do this, you have to have a tax identification number. Citizens use their social security number. Non-citizens can use an ITIN, which is not supposed to be used for employment but often is anyway since a 1099 is “technically” not the same thing. :roll:

So now the IRS knows this person, who is here illegally, works at X company, makes Y money, and will owe Z dollars in taxes at the end of the year.

This is common knowledge, and this heavily incentivizes migrants to formally file and pay taxes (while getting no exemptions or returns, unlike citizens). The government, the IRS, employer, and TurboTax all win here.

And if they don’t, the migrant gets a scary government letter in the mail saying they owe money.

Thus is why, in the us, if you’ve ever been to a Latino festival there’s almost always someone there who can help with filing taxes and opening bank accounts with an ITIN.



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12 Oct 2024, 1:10 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
This is just basic arithmetic, In fact your dog understands this. If your a dog owner and you bring another dog into the home, it will normally bark and get aggressive to protect its access to food as it and other animals understand the basic concept of supply & demand.

Of course humans will say but i can always buy 2 tins of dog food at the store and that is true for dogs, but the concept is less true for hospitals, housing and access to other public things that cost billions to produce when either the gov has no money or spends it on other things like foreign wars etc...


The problem with your analogy is that dogs don't contribute to the home's income, whereas immigrants most certainly do contribute to GDP and government budgets through taxes.

They will take hotels that are better served to homeless autistic people with dreams.
https://shastascout.org/we-the-autistic ... yone-else/


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12 Oct 2024, 7:01 pm

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Some posts were edited or removed.

Let's not give oxygen to Trump's lies about immigrants eating pets.


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12 Oct 2024, 7:32 pm

GoldTails95 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
This is just basic arithmetic, In fact your dog understands this. If your a dog owner and you bring another dog into the home, it will normally bark and get aggressive to protect its access to food as it and other animals understand the basic concept of supply & demand.

Of course humans will say but i can always buy 2 tins of dog food at the store and that is true for dogs, but the concept is less true for hospitals, housing and access to other public things that cost billions to produce when either the gov has no money or spends it on other things like foreign wars etc...


The problem with your analogy is that dogs don't contribute to the home's income, whereas immigrants most certainly do contribute to GDP and government budgets through taxes.

They will take hotels that are better served to homeless autistic people with dreams.
https://shastascout.org/we-the-autistic ... yone-else/


Japanese style zoning at a state level would fix this problem.



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12 Oct 2024, 9:50 pm

I'd imagine immigrants - illegal or legal - have dreams, too. And some of them are even autistic.


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12 Oct 2024, 10:47 pm

GoldTails95 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
This is just basic arithmetic, In fact your dog understands this. If your a dog owner and you bring another dog into the home, it will normally bark and get aggressive to protect its access to food as it and other animals understand the basic concept of supply & demand.

Of course humans will say but i can always buy 2 tins of dog food at the store and that is true for dogs, but the concept is less true for hospitals, housing and access to other public things that cost billions to produce when either the gov has no money or spends it on other things like foreign wars etc...


The problem with your analogy is that dogs don't contribute to the home's income, whereas immigrants most certainly do contribute to GDP and government budgets through taxes.

They will take hotels that are better served to homeless autistic people with dreams.
https://shastascout.org/we-the-autistic ... yone-else/


Do you literally mean hotel rooms, or housing more broadly?

Either way, building more to ensure there's an adequate supply is the solution, not blaming immigrants for a lack of hotel rooms and other shelter. Seething at immigrants won't solve anything.


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27 Nov 2024, 2:12 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
GoldTails95 wrote:
https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-aliens-taking-us-jobs
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... e-believe/
According to ASAN, autistic adults who are US citizens and legal residents were already having considerate socio-economic barriers (namely stigma and lower wages than nondisabled NTs) in the first place waaaaay before Biden and Harris started opening the border allowing countless 10s of millions illegal aliens to enter the US and steal jobs from U.S. citizens. This is another proof that once again, the mainstream socialist/communist Democrat party of the U.S. have been proven to be backstabbers for Americans with disabilities. And I'm tired of being silent so I see the proof of test of time.
This fact that jobs in the community that citizens and legal residents with I/DD and autism are obviously the prime ways that these adults, like us, can live and sustain ourselves in the community, instead of sheltered workshops or institution colonies, are being taken by illegal aliens, undermines the Olmstead v. L.C. (1999) promise.


I’m British, and we have similar problems with immigration here.

My only issue with your post above is that it doesn’t go far enough.

You might disagree with me here, but as far as I’m concerned (1) it’s not just illegal immigration that’s a problem, but legal immigration too, (2) it’s not just autistic people that immigration harms, (3) the problems with immigration are not just economic, (4) it’s not just the establishment ‘left wing’ party that allows mass immigration (both legal and illegal), but the establishment ‘right wing’ party too.

Of course, this thread is full of the usual predictable responses, like

“Immigrants contribute to the economy”

My response to that: You can’t make a blanket assertion like that, because several immigrants actually take more from the economy than they give.

(But as far as I’m concerned, that’s not the main issue with immigration anyway, because unlike some people I don’t view human life and human society in purely economic terms.)

“Don’t blame the immigrants, blame the government”

My response to that: Why can’t we blame both? That seems to be what the OP is doing anyway.

And here’s a response I didn’t see coming: “Illegal immigrants and autistic people aren’t competing for the same jobs anyway”

My response to that: That’s nothing but an unsubstantiated assertion produced for the sake of contradicting the OP. Are we really supposed to believe no autistic person has ever tried to get a job as a fruit-picker or delivery driver?

I predict that this thread will eventually be closed, and will be shortly followed by someone starting yet another new thread asking something along the lines of, “what on earth makes right-wingers feel they’re being silenced?” :lol:


I didn't have much time to mention detail this at my OP, but you are absolutely, positively right about the impact of LEGAL mass migration. In fact, I think the impact of mass, uncontrolled LEGAL migration is ACTUALLY WORSE than that of illegal immigration. Here in the U.S., in fact, there are at least several different kinds of visas that are being exploited and used for it's intended purpose (with unintentional harm to native born citizens or legal residents deemed worthy) to legally fill up many job and career path positions. Among the worst offenders of granting mass migrants jobs and rights to the detriment of for native born citizens and worthy legal residents are TPS (Temporary Protected Status which allows many downright illegal migrants to get "legal" status and all the rights and benefits of that) and the H1-B visa program.
https://www.fairus.org/blog/2020/06/18/ ... ck-workers
If black Americans are feeling the brunt from the large elephant in the room, which is why many black Americans communities are in shambles, imagine the magnitude that elephant has on native born Americans or rightful legal residents that have autism or I/DD. You know the quirks and special interests we have that can really be helpful to advance civilization and better mankind in precise detail (yeah, think Microsoft)? Guess what, all these foreigners with H1-B visas are occupying and narrowing career paths for people like us that have savant-like quirks for our special interest. Perhaps isn't that one of the prime reasons why 85% of people with what professionals call us "high functioning autistics" are unemployed. It's the same reason why I'm now working measly 10 hours at BurgerFi despite the fact that I'm a college grad with a bachelor's and I've applied to like at least 10 different professional positions with marine science since then, since Marine Biology is my favorite interest. In an interview for one of those entry-level professional dream positions, there was like 5 Indians and 1 Chinese exchange student. In another such interview, 2 were black people speaking Haitian creole and 3 Spanish speaking people who barely knew English and I was the only white guy who speaks English well. Plus my career fair looked like an international airport terminal.
My father is a Cuban who went through a rightfully arduous process to be deemed worthy of U.S. residency. Imagine the process he took to obtain U.S. citizenship: On top of all the Constitutional tests, he even had to spend one year outside the U.S. (my dad chose to spend that year in Canada) to prove himself he is even worthy to be considered a U.S. citizen, for which he had thankfully officially been for almost 50 years!!


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28 Nov 2024, 3:49 am

GoldTails95 wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
GoldTails95 wrote:
https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-aliens-taking-us-jobs
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... e-believe/
According to ASAN, autistic adults who are US citizens and legal residents were already having considerate socio-economic barriers (namely stigma and lower wages than nondisabled NTs) in the first place waaaaay before Biden and Harris started opening the border allowing countless 10s of millions illegal aliens to enter the US and steal jobs from U.S. citizens. This is another proof that once again, the mainstream socialist/communist Democrat party of the U.S. have been proven to be backstabbers for Americans with disabilities. And I'm tired of being silent so I see the proof of test of time.
This fact that jobs in the community that citizens and legal residents with I/DD and autism are obviously the prime ways that these adults, like us, can live and sustain ourselves in the community, instead of sheltered workshops or institution colonies, are being taken by illegal aliens, undermines the Olmstead v. L.C. (1999) promise.


I’m British, and we have similar problems with immigration here.

My only issue with your post above is that it doesn’t go far enough.

You might disagree with me here, but as far as I’m concerned (1) it’s not just illegal immigration that’s a problem, but legal immigration too, (2) it’s not just autistic people that immigration harms, (3) the problems with immigration are not just economic, (4) it’s not just the establishment ‘left wing’ party that allows mass immigration (both legal and illegal), but the establishment ‘right wing’ party too.

Of course, this thread is full of the usual predictable responses, like

“Immigrants contribute to the economy”

My response to that: You can’t make a blanket assertion like that, because several immigrants actually take more from the economy than they give.

(But as far as I’m concerned, that’s not the main issue with immigration anyway, because unlike some people I don’t view human life and human society in purely economic terms.)

“Don’t blame the immigrants, blame the government”

My response to that: Why can’t we blame both? That seems to be what the OP is doing anyway.

And here’s a response I didn’t see coming: “Illegal immigrants and autistic people aren’t competing for the same jobs anyway”

My response to that: That’s nothing but an unsubstantiated assertion produced for the sake of contradicting the OP. Are we really supposed to believe no autistic person has ever tried to get a job as a fruit-picker or delivery driver?

I predict that this thread will eventually be closed, and will be shortly followed by someone starting yet another new thread asking something along the lines of, “what on earth makes right-wingers feel they’re being silenced?” :lol:


I didn't have much time to mention detail this at my OP, but you are absolutely, positively right about the impact of LEGAL mass migration. In fact, I think the impact of mass, uncontrolled LEGAL migration is ACTUALLY WORSE than that of illegal immigration. Here in the U.S., in fact, there are at least several different kinds of visas that are being exploited and used for it's intended purpose (with unintentional harm to native born citizens or legal residents deemed worthy) to legally fill up many job and career path positions. Among the worst offenders of granting mass migrants jobs and rights to the detriment of for native born citizens and worthy legal residents are TPS (Temporary Protected Status which allows many downright illegal migrants to get "legal" status and all the rights and benefits of that) and the H1-B visa program.
https://www.fairus.org/blog/2020/06/18/ ... ck-workers
If black Americans are feeling the brunt from the large elephant in the room, which is why many black Americans communities are in shambles, imagine the magnitude that elephant has on native born Americans or rightful legal residents that have autism or I/DD. You know the quirks and special interests we have that can really be helpful to advance civilization and better mankind in precise detail (yeah, think Microsoft)? Guess what, all these foreigners with H1-B visas are occupying and narrowing career paths for people like us that have savant-like quirks for our special interest. Perhaps isn't that one of the prime reasons why 85% of people with what professionals call us "high functioning autistics" are unemployed. It's the same reason why I'm now working measly 10 hours at BurgerFi despite the fact that I'm a college grad with a bachelor's and I've applied to like at least 10 different professional positions with marine science since then, since Marine Biology is my favorite interest. In an interview for one of those entry-level professional dream positions, there was like 5 Indians and 1 Chinese exchange student. In another such interview, 2 were black people speaking Haitian creole and 3 Spanish speaking people who barely knew English and I was the only white guy who speaks English well. Plus my career fair looked like an international airport terminal.
My father is a Cuban who went through a rightfully arduous process to be deemed worthy of U.S. residency. Imagine the process he took to obtain U.S. citizenship: On top of all the Constitutional tests, he even had to spend one year outside the U.S. (my dad chose to spend that year in Canada) to prove himself he is even worthy to be considered a U.S. citizen, for which he had thankfully officially been for almost 50 years!!


I endorse this message. Thank you for speaking the truth, good sir.