Societal Standards vs WP Rules about criticizing religions

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I personally don't see criticism in this at all; what I do see is a modern day version of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. The "so called" progressives are the ones who escaped. When they come back and try and tell the others still chained that what they see is an illusion and is not reality, they are met with hate and ridicule.

It seems more like most people are following the rules/guidelines but some disagree with them - both the rules/guidelines and opinions being expressed.

WP's rules, verbatim:

I hurt.

Do you care?

Disparaging remarks about Catholics, Christians, Christianity, “The Catholic Church”, Church, Religion, “Religious people” church leaders hurt.

WP policy says you cannot make personal attacks but you can criticize “Religion” all you want. It appears self contradictory to me because being a Catholic, being a Christian is an essential part of me. You cannot criticize one without criticizing the other.

Sometimes I just stop reading WP, or go away until it doesn’t hurt as much. But it still hurts.

I won’t use the word “toxic” to describe another human being, or a group of human beings, because it is too dehumanizing. It always hurts when other talk this way about me.

Do you care? Does hurting me please you?

It's very hard to find the needed compassion when an adult, who is a member of the most mainstream and dominant religion, finds it hurtful that other people might object to some of the terrible actions of that religion and religious leaders. The problem is that you have way too thin of a skin, because reading criticisms of the world's most powerful belief system should not hurt. I can't coddle you because you are overly sensitive. It's just an unreasonable thing for you to ask.

When I call an organization or belief system toxic, my goal is not to cause offense. I’m simply saying how I feel about the policies and/or doctrine that cause harm. An organization can stop being toxic if they make changes.

I’m sorry you’ve felt hurt, but there are problems that transcend that. I have a lot of respect for people who are fighting for change in the Church.

I think the same thing happened to Blitz's thread. It was intended to be about something else, and it death spiraled into distractions. It was unfortunate.



I can relate to this, absolutely.



I don't know. On other forums, I've only ever reported obvious spam posts. I haven't reported anything here, because I'm new and I'm not really sure where the cultural lines are. I might change my mind later, but I very much value free speech....

In a way, I don't mind the hurtful things remaining, so that they are part of the observable record, and folks can decide for themselves. It does sting quite a bit, yes, and it sucks, for sure. Once I process them (I'm still processing, and now I have new things to process in this thread), but I really dislike censorship. My record is there for all to see, and so are those who have directly said hurtful things to me, and I'd prefer it that way.





I could have written this post.

I've been processing for the past few days, and darn it, Fenn, NOW is when the tears escaped. It sucks that I'm feeling the way that I am, and I was kinda hoping I was alone, so that others weren't dealing with it, too. On the other hand, it gives me encouragement to stay, to know that I'm not alone.

I'm really really glad that you are hurting. You truly deserve it for all the hurt you have caused, not on this forum particularly but by espousing and promoting the beliefs you have revealed here, when you are living your life out in the world.

You sound like more than a bit of a sadist.

I don't know if you've read the truly sickening homophobic dreck that she posted in another thread.

To avoid derailing this thread, here is the related one:

viewtopic.php?t=423899

Not withstanding whatever sh***y behaviour she may or may not have engaged in, it doesn't reflect well upon you to be gleeful over other people's suffering.

It is usual for threads to get derailed. It bothered me at first until I realized I was doing it also. Why it happens so often here? My guess is executive dysfunction.


Catholics criticize Catholicism all the time, Jews Judaism etc. Outsiders doing it gets tricky. In recent years the idea that no outsiders should opine about groups because they do not have the lived experience has gained currency. I have never agreed with that. Sometimes outsiders have insights that insiders do not because insiders are too close to a situation. That said if an outsider feels the need to criticize a group or religion they need to do their research and proceed with caution.

Obviously religion is a personal and emotional subject. But this section is named Politics, Philosophy, and Religion so religion will be discussed. The rules are more lenient for this section then the others so it is not for everybody and for others there are times this best be avoided.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 30 Nov 2024, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When it comes to this person, absolutely yes. I am doubling down and reaffirming what I said. Whatever butthurt she's experiencing, it doesn't come close to the harm she's doing.

I’ve found some behavior/opinions expressed over the past few days horrible - one or two things having been removed. However, I think we need to keep our criticism on ideas rather than people. Sometimes individuals who hold and express prejudice in its various forms are simply restating that which they’ve always been taught. My brother had homophobic beliefs for a long time. It took a close examination of his beliefs and research for him to change.

I don’t want anyone to experience pain although that doesn’t mean we’re obligated to stop criticizing ideas and organizations as long as we abide by the rules here. Outside criticism can be especially important because otherwise bias can limit our understanding and inhibit needed progress - on both a micro and macro level.