After Trump’s win, some women are considering the 4B movemen

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Honey69
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16 Nov 2024, 10:24 am

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

Yes, although Hitler wasn't just hypnotically charismatic, he also had enough competence to have a functioning state and could benefit from the reality that the country hadn't been treated fairly following WWI with bills to pay so massive that it pretty much guaranteed that there'd be more pain for generations..


In our case, Trump's grievances are largely completely made up or very petty.


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16 Nov 2024, 11:54 am

Here is a movie about Sophie Scholl:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8aiI_55WS8


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MatchboxVagabond
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16 Nov 2024, 12:01 pm

Honey69 wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:

Yes, although Hitler wasn't just hypnotically charismatic, he also had enough competence to have a functioning state and could benefit from the reality that the country hadn't been treated fairly following WWI with bills to pay so massive that it pretty much guaranteed that there'd be more pain for generations..


In our case, Trump's grievances are largely completely made up or very petty.


Yes, and I think that's part of why there's some sort of natural limit to how many people he can get on board with whatever he chooses to do. I don't share the view that a 78 year old that's going to be 82 at the end of the term is going to have the necessary energy levels and the like to get term limits set aside or really most of the other worst things that a dictator could do. I just don't see it happening as there's a lot of people in power that are still young enough to care what happens in 5+ years down the road.



Honey69
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16 Nov 2024, 12:16 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

Yes, and I think that's part of why there's some sort of natural limit to how many people he can get on board with whatever he chooses to do. I don't share the view that a 78 year old that's going to be 82 at the end of the term is going to have the necessary energy levels and the like to get term limits set aside or really most of the other worst things that a dictator could do. I just don't see it happening as there's a lot of people in power that are still young enough to care what happens in 5+ years down the road.


That's about as optimistic as we dare be.


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Honey69
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20 Nov 2024, 2:26 pm

To return to the original article:

I think that women in South Korea generally have things harder than do American women.

As I understand it (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong on any point), Korean tradition calls for the eldest son to live with his parents, and for his wife to move in and be bossed around mercilessly by her mother-in-law.

In Korea, there is nightmarish competition to get into the best universities. Koreans study hard and work hard.

Koreans have extremely long work days, for very little pay.

Women are typically paid less than men.

Beauty standards for Korean women are very high.

The cost of living in Korea is high. Even ordinary items manufactured in Korea cost more in Korea than they do in the United States.

Married Korean women are under a lot of pressure to take care of their husbands, their husbands' parents, and their children.

After going to so much effort to graduate from the best university, and to get a job that basically sucks, a lot of women do not want to give up their careers, or to see their opportunities for professional advancement eroded.

So, the 4B movement probably makes a lot more sense for Korean than American women.

Here is a scholarly article, "The 4B movement: envisioning a feminist future with/in a non-reproductive future in Korea", published in 2021

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 7#abstract

Well worth reading, if you're interested.

The Abstract wrote:

Recently, in Korea, young feminists launched the 4B (4非) movement: bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae, bisekseu, meaning the refusal of (heterosexual) marriage, childbirth, romance, and sexual relationships. The 4B movement encompasses not only criticisms of the pro-natalist turn in state policy and protests against it, but also various forms of self-help discussions and practices that are explicitly oriented towards women’s individual futures. In this article, we explore how the 4B movement has given young feminists the opportunity to envision the future that they had been discouraged from imagining. Presenting a lived critique of contemporary Korea, these feminists ask how young women are led to imagine their current, single life as a temporary state, as consumer capitalism and the patriarchal state together place these young non-married women in an economically vulnerable position. They see this as achieved by endorsing ‘feminine’ desires and a presentist lifestyle, as well as excluding non-married women from opportunities in the job market and state-sponsored benefits in welfare services. We argue that the 4B movement and its discourses on the future and self-help could offer these women one possible way to envision a feminist future as individuals without being part of the state’s reproductive future.



The Beginning of the Introduction wrote:

In March 2018, one Twitter user suggested to her young female comrades that they should learn more about economics, and ‘save money that would otherwise be spent on self-fashioning labour’ in order to secure a home of their own, sustain a ‘non-married life (bihon)’, and ‘continue [feminist] struggles’. Otherwise, she said, ‘one might become a penniless granny with a wardrobe full of clothes’ (Pulmetalhalmeoni, Citation2018). These tweets were written and circulated at the confluence of two different, yet closely related movements among young online feminists in Korea – the Tal-Corset (Escape the Corset) movement that campaigned against the ideal of femininity,Footnote1 and the 4B (4非) movement (bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae, bisekseu), which refuses marriage and other heterosexual relations and practices. The imagery of an old woman whose wardrobe is packed with outdated fashion items was powerful. Screenshots of this writer’s tweets and other users’ comments were circulated well beyond Twitter to other women’s online communities, and even became ‘images that help me curb my urge to buy new clothes’ (Yeoseongsidae userFootnote2, 2019)....



If the movement at least succeeds in persuading women to spend less on clothes, then more power to them!


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23 Nov 2024, 8:04 pm

I've been doing this for 30 years due to the fact that I'm Transgender F to M, Asexual and I've been emotionally and verbally hurt in college. No sex please, I'm British.


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30 Nov 2024, 7:11 pm

I was just pondering whether this 4B Movement might be analogous to a cartel.

Quote:

A cartel is a group of independent market participants who collude with each other as well as agreeing not to compete with each other in order to improve their profits and dominate the market. A cartel is an organization formed by producers to limit competition and increase prices by creating artificial shortages through low production quotas, stockpiling, and marketing quotas. Cartels can be vertical or horizontal but are inherently unstable due to the temptation to defect and falling prices for all members. Additionally, advancements in technology or the emergence of substitutes may undermine cartel pricing power, leading to the breakdown of the cooperation needed to sustain the cartel. Cartels are usually associations in the same sphere of business, and thus an alliance of rivals.



In the case of the 4B movement, the ladies are swearing off of dicks all together.

Quote:

Cartel theory is usually understood as the doctrine of economic cartels. However, since the concept of 'cartel' does not have to be limited to the field of the economy, doctrines on non-economic cartels are conceivable in principle. Such exist already in the form of the state cartel theory and the cartel party theory. For the pre-modern cartels, which existed as rules for tournaments, duels and court games or in the form of inter-state fairness agreements, there was no scientific theory. Such has developed since the 1880s for the scope of the economy...



Generally, a woman knows that her reproductive organs have a relatively short shelf life in terms of producing offspring. If she waits until she is old, there are now fertility treatments that are expensive and offer no guarantee of success.

Given conditions in Korea, a Korean woman would generally want a husband who was wealthy--more American women than Korean women would crave a thug. By publicly signing up for the 4B movement, and encouraging other women to enlist in the cartel, thus reducing the supply of vaginas, a woman could easily cheat and nab a higher-status husband than she could under ordinary competition. Thus, the 4B movement may be doomed eventually to fail.


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03 Dec 2024, 3:33 pm

Here is Sandman on the 4B Movement: https://rumble.com/v4rwun5-what-is-happ ... mgtow.html

I used to watch his YouTube channel, which appears to be kaput.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-MTBDfFXMY

He usually had some interesting insights, which may have become too "offensive" for YouTube.


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04 Dec 2024, 10:42 am

It seems that Korea's 4B Movement has more of a coherent ideology to it--similar to the "red pill/blue pill" philosophy of our MGTOW.

American woman picking up on the 4B Movement appear to be having a visceral reaction to Trump's victory. Korean women have legitimate gripes about their role in society, and the cards being stacked against them. American women are blaming men for Trump's victory, when he had plenty of support from women. It was basically the less-intelligent, more-gullible voters of both genders who accorded Trump the victory. That, plus voters who are downright evil and nefarious.

Korean women want to be able to support themselves without having to rely upon a man. Afghan women, on the other hand, have absolutely no chance of supporting themselves without a man. The American occupation of the country did not result in a positive impact.

Birthrates in Korea and the United States will fall, which is probably best for the planet.

Roman Catholics, Mormons, and Muslims will be dominating the planet in future generations.


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05 Dec 2024, 10:59 am

By the way, Harris did win the "childless cat lady" vote

https://apnews.com/projects/election-re ... -votecast/

Quote:

President-elect Donald Trump won slightly more than half of voters who own either cats or dogs, with a big assist from dog owners, according to AP VoteCast, a survey of more than 120,000 voters. Dog owners were much more likely to support Trump over Vice President Kamala Harris. Cat owners, meanwhile, were split between the two candidates...

...Harris did end up decisively winning women who owned a cat but no dog, but those voters were a relatively small slice of the electorate. And pet owners as a whole did not seem to hold Vance's remarks against the GOP ticket...

...Childless or not, women who only owned a cat were more likely to support Harris than dog owners, or voters who had a cat and a dog. About 6 in 10 women who owned a cat but not a dog supported Harris, according to AP VoteCast. The Democratic candidate did similarly well among women who did not own either kind of pet.

Her success with women who were cat owners didn't translate to men, though. Trump narrowly won men who only owned cats — slightly more than half supported him...



It appears that casting aspersion upon a small slice of likely Harris voters helped the Trump cause.

Mrs. Clinton's remark about the "basket of deplorables" was too broad.

If the democrats could insult just a targeted portion of likely Trump voters--I don't know, maybe men who rape women?


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06 Dec 2024, 9:19 am

Here is a woman on the 4B movement.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD1y34J7dtg

It seems that a woman who went too far into this might end up hurting her chances for career advancement, depending on her career. Who gets promoted in an office often depends largely upon a person's appearance. But, nowadays, I guess more people are working from home, so it might matter less.


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06 Dec 2024, 10:32 am

The appearance standards are likely to be different if the CFO and managers are women!



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06 Dec 2024, 10:56 am

BTDT wrote:
The appearance standards are likely to be different if the CFO and managers are women!


Will the appearance standards be tougher?


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06 Dec 2024, 2:02 pm

I think the CEO decided we needed a formal dress code after the CFO held meetings wearing a sweat pants!

I chatted with a senior editor about clothes and wore some nice vintage clothes the next day.