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TwilightPrincess
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16 Jan 2025, 10:20 pm

__Elijahahahaho wrote:
I don't know if this has anything to do with it,
but women are the most likely to trigger a divorce
and it hurts men a lot.

Some religious women are more likely to take marriage seriously.

Even though women are more likely to file for divorce, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they take marriage any less seriously than men do.

There are statistics and links to studies that back up the following points in this article.

Quote:
Key Takeaways

- Around 69% of divorces in heterosexual marriages are initiated by women.

- Women often feel less satisfied in marriages due to unmet emotional needs, poor communication, and lack of independence.

- The unequal division of domestic chores and childcare responsibilities, even when both partners work full-time, contributes to marital dissatisfaction among women.

- Infidelity and alcohol addiction are significant factors in many divorces. Women are more likely to cite their husband's affairs as a reason for divorce, while alcohol abuse leads to stress and decreased marital satisfaction.

- Physical and emotional violence is a major cause of divorce, with women being primary victims more often than men.

- Despite short-term economic difficulties, women often experience long-term improvements in well-being after divorce. Only a small percentage of women regret their decision to divorce compared to men.

I think an overly negative view of divorce is harmful because it can make people feel compelled to stay in toxic relationships. It’s something I observed a lot in my former fundamentalist community and others. Having said that, I can see how joining patriarchal religions could be appealing to a small subset of men.



Honey69
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16 Jan 2025, 11:49 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Having said that, I can see how joining patriarchal religions could be appealing to a small subset of men.


It seems that more women are religious than men, though. And some women like patriarchal religions.


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TwilightPrincess
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16 Jan 2025, 11:55 pm

Honey69 wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Having said that, I can see how joining patriarchal religions could be appealing to a small subset of men.


It seems that more women are religious than men, though. And some women like patriarchal religions.

“Like” might not be an accurate way to describe it. It certainly doesn’t describe the women who made up the majority in my former religious community. It’s much more complex than that although I was addressing the “single men joining orthodox churches” theme which I think may largely consist of young men on the alt-right who buy into some of the manosphere talking points.



Honey69
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17 Jan 2025, 10:23 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
“Like” might not be an accurate way to describe it. It certainly doesn’t describe the women who made up the majority in my former religious community.


How would you describe it, then? If you don't like one religion, then you can join another. It is a free country. It isn't like Germany after the Reformation, where everyone in a principality was compelled to worship in the church of the prince's choosing (Catholic or Protestant).

The Jehovah's Witnesses are very actively proselytizing. Orthodox churches, not so much. Jews, not at all.


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__Elijahahahaho
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17 Jan 2025, 10:53 am

Quote:
“Like” might not be an accurate way to describe it.


I know some traditional women from russian orthodox tradition who definitely
like the roles imposed. They just have a different view, there's nothing bad about it.

For her, she seems to see the man as bread-winner, and stable respectful companion
she gets money and share of the house etc. But in turn she is nurturing, but has her own life,
and certainly not less power.
There is the view that the man works hard for his woman.

I don't know all the details, but I think it's silly and dogmatic to preach liberalism as "gods truth".



TwilightPrincess
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17 Jan 2025, 10:54 am

It’s a very complex topic.

If one is led to believe that one denomination of Christianity is the sole truth and the sole path to salvation, it’s unlikely that they’ll leave that religion even if they dislike many/most things about it. Similarly, if one is led to believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, they might find themselves compelled to follow things they find deeply problematic or distasteful. For example, I used to try to be homophobic. :lol: I hated being a JW even in years where I tried to be a good one. I always had had doubts and actively disliked many teachings and aspects of the belief system, but I felt wrong and strived to be a good believer anyway. I know many others who had a similar experience. My aunt who still believes always struggled with the sexist teachings and sexist portions of the Bible although she thinks she’s wrong. She doesn’t like the religion; it’s been a constant source of inner turmoil. It works like that in other branches of fundamentalist Christianity as well and sometimes even in mainstream churches to a certain extent depending on certain variables.

Sometimes people feel pushed into going along with a religion for family, too. I’ve even seen concerns related to housing and employment, especially when it involves friends and family and when low education is a factor. That’s a big issue among the Amish. There are lots of possibilities. Among JWs, fewer women leave that were raised in than men. Some of that is related to being raised to be submissive. Boys and girls have very different upbringings based on stupid teachings about men and women’s roles. Men are encouraged to be more independent and to “take the lead,” women not so much. It seems likely that that could play some role in other patriarchal religions.

That’s not to say that all women dislike it. Women in any demographic aren’t all going to think and feel the same. However, internalized sexism and homophobia do happen as well sometimes. People can get acclimated to different types of unpleasantness. I often tried to convince myself that I was happy when I wasn’t.



TwilightPrincess
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17 Jan 2025, 11:00 am

__Elijahahahaho wrote:
I don't know all the details, but I think it's silly and dogmatic to preach liberalism as "gods truth".

I don’t believe in any deity. However, anything less than equality is wrong in my opinion. People can think and believe whatever they want, just like I’m free to think that some tenets imposed by religion and indoctrinated into children are toxic, harmful, and abusive.

I have a low opinion of the Russian Orthodox Church as well as any other that is sexist and homophobic.



__Elijahahahaho
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17 Jan 2025, 12:32 pm

Yeah, I mostly agree, I also don't like homophobia.
Your experiences with JW sound traumatizing.

I suppose what I was arguing for was the roles thing may not be that bad. Not "taking initiative" can also be negative framing of not "*having* to take initiative", and that is something some women like because business often involves a lot of risk and cutthroat politics. As a man I would not mind being a house-dad at times.

A flip side to this is also now labour bargaining power is less because whereas in the past a man was expected to earn for the whole family, now both people are expected to work.

Can you tell me more about the Russian church from your perspective?

I don't really know much about it other than the vague interactions I have had with friends.



TwilightPrincess
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17 Jan 2025, 1:02 pm

I don’t know that much about the Russian Orthodox Church other than what I briefly researched although it’s something I would like to explore further. I might start with Wikipedia. I researched and mentioned homophobia because, in my experience, when a religion has “traditional values,” it most often involves homophobia on some level, which isn’t to say that all adherents will always agree with their church about everything. Some religions require more strict adherence than others. My criticism is on religion and beliefs, not believers. The Bible and religion is a special interest of mine. I do find it fascinating.

Quote:
While Eastern Orthodox churches are autocephalous [self-governing], there is consensus on official LGBTQ+ policy. For example, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese lists homosexuality beside fornication, adultery, abortion and abusive sexual behavior as “immoral and inappropriate forms of behavior in and of themselves, and also because they attack the institution of marriage and the family.” It adds that, “the Orthodox Church believes that homosexual behavior is a sin.” Similarly, the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States, declares, “Like adultery and fornication, homosexual acts are condemned by Scripture.”

[…]

The Eastern Orthodox Church does not perform or recognize same-sex marriages. According to a statement by the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops, "The Orthodox Church cannot and will not bless same-sex unions. Whereas marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred institution ordained by God, homosexual union is not." The Orthodox Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality is "firmly grounded in Holy Scripture, 2000 years of church tradition, and canon law, holds that marriage consists in the conjugal union of a man and a woman." It adds that, “marriage is necessarily monogamous and heterosexual."

Despite official stance, a survey released in 2018 by the Public Religious Research Institute (PRRI) finds a majority, 66 percent, of U.S. Eastern Orthodox Christians supporting marriage equality.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-o ... .%E2%80%9D

Quote:
THE Russian Orthodox Church is backing a law prohibiting all forms of “LGBT propaganda”, which is expected to be tightened further after gaining overwhelming support at its first reading in the State Duma.

“The Church has always supported banning not just the LGBT agenda, but any agenda promoting sin in the public space,” Vakhtang Kipshidze, deputy chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for Church Relations with Society and Media, said.

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/ ... egislation

Apart from homophobia and other forms of bigotry, I don’t necessarily have a problem with traditional relationships or practices. I just think it’s harmful when they are imposed by religion and aren’t what people truly want for themselves. Even if my traditional marriage hadn’t been abusive, I wouldn’t have liked being a submissive wife because I want an equal partnership. I don’t want to submit or be subordinate to anyone and never did.



RachObi
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17 Jan 2025, 4:46 pm

Interesting.

I am non demontional. I can attend any church that I feel worships appropriately,therefore should at least be able to attend some Orthodox Churches if I so wanted to.

I was schooled in Catholic schools and now attend a Anglican church in my local area. At times I do still attend the Catholic church I attended as a child. I just did so today as well. I can say that since 2014 when I started attending my local Anglican church most of the worshippers who attend are quite eldery. In 2014 I appeared to be the youngest at 41 in the services I attended. Now a few younger women are coming the early morning service I attend, but no young men. I attended a Catholic weekday mass today as I said it was majority older women who attended, absent of their partners seemingly.

The churches I attend are traditional churches. Perhaps with an older demography some want to worship with more of their own age group. I don't know perhaps some just want to worship or perhaps some may be looking to settle down as well.

I think some people may be pushing back on things now and wanting a return to core values in their life they may have known. So much change can sometimes be going on, that some want to return to having a faith in a world where so much seems changeable and fast paced.



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Yesterday, 10:45 am

I was not able to pull up any Orthodox church's in nature that had five hour services as mentioned in the article.
The longest running service I could find was for 3 hours. That said servkces of that lenght are not unknown to me and you will find some services around 4hrs or more in more Orthodox Charismatic African Churches.

During the pandemic many church's didn't open up properly until late 2022 so putting on services of lenght before this I don't know how possible it was in the person.

People can attend for a multiude of reasons for them.I know some church's that have events/programs for single people looking to settle down and seen it in others posting that was a main intention of them in going to church, to find a partner.

I wish them all well.



Honey69
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Yesterday, 11:58 am

Some Black American churches have VERY long services. Lots and lots of singing and praising.


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