An answer for the other 80% of autism may have been found

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Double Retired
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28 Dec 2024, 3:53 pm

I am ASD-1. I have three siblings, none of them are Autistic. I would not want a cure that made me like them. By most measures I've been more successful than them. And I would not have wanted to be "cured" before *I* could make an educated decision on the topic.

Rather than "curing" me, I would prefer everyone else be "cured" to be more tolerant of my differences.

It appears to me that Autism is still incompletely understood. There probably really is a SPECTRUM of different "disorders" lumped under that label. From where I'm sitting, I think it (my spot on that SPECTRUM) is not inherently wrong but rather inherently different from the majority of people...but the current consensus is the difference is unacceptable. I don't feel popular opinion is correct in my case.

Popular opinion is not always correct.
▫ My bride was born left-handed. Her grandmother was born in Europe in the 1800s and considered left-handedness to be EVIL and exerted much pressure to "cure" the left-handedness. She partially succeeded; my bride is not left-handed now, just clumsy.
Red hair has been thought evil, too.

And where would you draw the line? If more people were Autistic would that make it OK?

P.S. !


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MatchboxVagabond
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29 Dec 2024, 11:53 am

Eugenics is always risky business. Humans haven't had the best track record in such matters. And it's extremely questionable if changes made to the brain to an extent that could be considered a cure wouldn't fundamentally alter who somebody is.

There's also the issue of how voluntary it would really be when it would have to be done early and anybody that wasn't picked up in screenings early enough probably wouldn't be able to be treated anyways.



Edna3362
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29 Dec 2024, 1:06 pm

I'm all for fixing executive dysfunction related issues (the kind that us autistic adults would and will prioritize over), which usually includes everything to do with emotional dysregulation, painful sensory issues, cognitive processing and working memory issues, stuff around multitasking and even some aspects that are ADHD-like -- the very things that made a lot of autistics , even with higher IQ, "useless beings" -- which can very much do feel like turning into a better and way more functioning version of an autistic person and without altering their personalities when that type of solution is found.

I sincerely believe this is plausible even without directly touching IQ.
Maybe even not even needing touching genes itself if I stretch it further.

Because there are very much other avenues that can address to such, like the consequence of curing the effects of sleep disorders -- if that's the consequence of that research, yeah, I'll be all for it.


But the 'socialization and emotional aspects', altering one's rewards system to make them more 'verbal' and personally 'sociable', another scheme to make another autistic "indistinguishable from their NT peers"...?

Anything that pertains to becoming more neurotypical is questionable.
Even something like touching IQ itself is even a touchier subject.


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MatchboxVagabond
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29 Dec 2024, 1:19 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
I'm all for fixing executive dysfunction related issues (the kind that us autistic adults would and will prioritize over), which usually includes everything to do with emotional dysregulation, painful sensory issues, cognitive processing and working memory issues, stuff around multitasking and even some aspects that are ADHD-like -- the very things that made a lot of autistics , even with higher IQ, "useless beings" -- which can very much do feel like turning into a better and way more functioning version of an autistic person and without altering their personalities when that type of solution is found.

I sincerely believe this is plausible even without directly touching IQ.
Maybe even not even needing touching genes itself if I stretch it further.

Because there are very much other avenues that can address to such, like the consequence of curing the effects of sleep disorders -- if that's the consequence of that research, yeah, I'll be all for it.


But the 'socialization and emotional aspects', altering one's rewards system to make them more 'verbal' and personally 'sociable', another scheme to make another autistic "indistinguishable from their NT peers"...?

Anything that pertains to becoming more neurotypical is questionable.
Even something like touching IQ itself is even a touchier subject.

I think if we were talking about curing aspects of the condition rather than the condition as whole, it would probably not be that controversial. I'm not sure that not knowing when to use the restroom really contributes anything positive to anybody's life. And it would be brilliant to know when I'm thirsty.



Edna3362
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29 Dec 2024, 1:58 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
I'm all for fixing executive dysfunction related issues (the kind that us autistic adults would and will prioritize over), which usually includes everything to do with emotional dysregulation, painful sensory issues, cognitive processing and working memory issues, stuff around multitasking and even some aspects that are ADHD-like -- the very things that made a lot of autistics , even with higher IQ, "useless beings" -- which can very much do feel like turning into a better and way more functioning version of an autistic person and without altering their personalities when that type of solution is found.

I sincerely believe this is plausible even without directly touching IQ.
Maybe even not even needing touching genes itself if I stretch it further.

Because there are very much other avenues that can address to such, like the consequence of curing the effects of sleep disorders -- if that's the consequence of that research, yeah, I'll be all for it.


But the 'socialization and emotional aspects', altering one's rewards system to make them more 'verbal' and personally 'sociable', another scheme to make another autistic "indistinguishable from their NT peers"...?

Anything that pertains to becoming more neurotypical is questionable.
Even something like touching IQ itself is even a touchier subject.

I think if we were talking about curing aspects of the condition rather than the condition as whole, it would probably not be that controversial. I'm not sure that not knowing when to use the restroom really contributes anything positive to anybody's life. And it would be brilliant to know when I'm thirsty.

I'm very sure the response around or even work arounds related to interoception insensitivities (not everything is all about sensitivities, just that it's a more common complaint) and very much everything to do with timing (whether it's socializing or daily living) can be done in a lot by solving a lot of executive dysfunction issues.


Really.
I strongly believe getting rid of executive dysfunction IS what makes every autistic into a better version of themselves.

Even if it includes getting rid of the stress response/regulation related issues that can lead to improvements of that particular aspect of the condition.


I also don't believe the inability to do well with stress is what makes an autistic.
It's just what made autistics burdened.


Unless this is more like turning every human genetic orchids (those who need more support to thrive and do not deal well with stressors and chaos -- doesn't matter if it's labeled as 'ND', 'autism' or 'HSP') into genetic dandelions (aka whatever makes most NTs endure inhumane systems and therefore perpetuate them by not complaining about it)...

That's another matter, a red flag so to speak -- maybe an even bigger red flag if you go beyond autism. (If that's confusing, search about orchid-dandelion hypothesis; where the former is classed as one of those vulnerable to stressors that can lead to mental illness and disorders).


Can allistics have the same sets of genes, I wonder? Or it's only all about autism?


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2ukenkerl
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Yesterday, 10:38 pm

I DOUBT that they could do that!

They DO have a CUSTOM ONLY therapy called Crispr, and it CAN change genes, but SO WHAT! Autism is primarily a remapping of the brain, Not only is that logical, but FMRI concurs! THAT IS NOT GENETIC!! !! ! It is a WIRING that happened at least PARTIALLY due to genes, apparently, Such things CAN'T remap, and logically WON'T.

It is kind of like putting too much voltage into a semiconductor circuit. It may fail such that even when CORRECT voltage is applied, it still fails. That circuit was CHANGED by the voltage, but removing the voltage doesn't fix the problem.

And crispr is meant to be CUSTOM. It looks for a particular string, like a spell checker. If a part is different that won't be changed. If it exists somewhere else, that WILL. I wouldn't trust it in a on size fits all case.



carlos55
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Today, 9:00 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
I DOUBT that they could do that!

They DO have a CUSTOM ONLY therapy called Crispr, and it CAN change genes, but SO WHAT! Autism is primarily a remapping of the brain, Not only is that logical, but FMRI concurs! THAT IS NOT GENETIC!! ! ! ! It is a WIRING that happened at least PARTIALLY due to genes, apparently, Such things CAN'T remap, and logically WON'T.

It is kind of like putting too much voltage into a semiconductor circuit. It may fail such that even when CORRECT voltage is applied, it still fails. That circuit was CHANGED by the voltage, but removing the voltage doesn't fix the problem.

And crispr is meant to be CUSTOM. It looks for a particular string, like a spell checker. If a part is different that won't be changed. If it exists somewhere else, that WILL. I wouldn't trust it in a on size fits all case.


The different wiring / different operating system metaphor was just an artificial invention of online communities maybe due to the fact there were many aspies in IT

There are cases of different brain structures in some autisms known as malformation, they tend to result in very serious disability. You wouldn’t want this.

Most autistic people have had MRI scans that have shown to be indistinguishable from NT people.

As the article states approx 80% of autisms are of unknown cause this is a fact although I believe the real figure is 70-75%

If there was a discovered set difference in all autism it by definition wouldn’t be unknown.

All science can do is say genetics and environment is the cause but that is just them saying in a scientific acceptable way - they don’t know


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Today, 1:02 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Most autistic people have had MRI scans that have shown to be indistinguishable from NT people.
I'm confused; could you elaborate on that, please? I easily found these articles online:    &   ; they suggest to me that MRI-detectable differences associated with Autism are common even though I don't know if the MRIs to detect them are common.

For reasons unrelated to Autism I had a brain MRI in 2021 and my brain is not structured like an NT brain. I have a "hummingbird" which is normally associated with PSP—though very fortunately it is not associated with PSP in my case.


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Today, 1:54 pm

A "vaccine" to "cure" autism. Anyone see the irony in that?

But let's play autistic devil's advocate and say there was a stem cell therapy designed to reverse the genetic cause of autism. What would it do to a person, since their lifelong pattern of thinking was being changed? Could they cope with this sudden paradigm shift? Compare it to deaf adults who receive a cochlear implant. Some of them have rejected it due to it bringing intrusive and disruptive sounds into their life, and others just refuse it in anticipation of this. And those of us with Asperger's - would it "dumb us down" and take away any advantages our narrow focus may have given us?

And what would this do to people who in my opinion have 50/50 Asperger's - a combination of genetics and upbringing by the same people who gave us these genetics? It might only be halfway effective.

Just like anything else in life changing therapies - not one size fits all.


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