confused, don't know how to feel about this convesation

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skibum
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05 Feb 2025, 10:41 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
^
Well, the "gal" thing was 40 years ago, and the "India" thing could have been misconstrued. Many companies are notorious for outsourcing their "support" to India because it's cheap, and cheap services are usually poor services. I think timf may have worded his post a little clumsily, but I see no reason to read tons of sexism or racism into it. Aspies can be a tad blunt and it's hard to get these things perfect every time.
Very true. Funny, I have met a few very old gentlemen who call me and other younger than them women gals. It's kind of cute when they say it. I guess it's the same as when they call young men fellows. I think that in some parts of the US, they might still use those words in everyday speech.


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05 Feb 2025, 11:05 pm

^
As far as I know, "gal" is just the female form of "guy." But they call anybody a guy these days. They don't call males "gals" though. Don't know why not.



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06 Feb 2025, 12:55 am

skibum wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is not necessarily an either or situation. Laziness can be a cause of those ideas about women.

What you described in your last post is classical gaslighting. Which makes me think sexism might be too mild a word. Maybe misogyny is the correct term. Or it could be ableism or both.
Oh wow, thank you. Gaslighting is actually what it felt like. I just couldn't quite identify the feeling. I think you are right about what you are saying.

Glad to be of help.


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skibum
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06 Feb 2025, 11:06 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
skibum wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is not necessarily an either or situation. Laziness can be a cause of those ideas about women.

What you described in your last post is classical gaslighting. Which makes me think sexism might be too mild a word. Maybe misogyny is the correct term. Or it could be ableism or both.
Oh wow, thank you. Gaslighting is actually what it felt like. I just couldn't quite identify the feeling. I think you are right about what you are saying.

Glad to be of help.
:heart:


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06 Feb 2025, 8:29 pm

My comment had nothing to do with the term 'gal'.

ChicagoLiz wrote:
This is a great example of how even when it seems like you're being complimentary, it's still sexism to say you avoid one sex because you believe it's the other sex that is "competent and helpful".


As to the OP, it seems to be universally acknowledged that health insurance companies in the U.S., whether by ignorance or malice, will choose the cheapest option for them. It is also well known that women and people of color have much worse medical outcomes because of the prejudices in how they are treated every step of the way. The original customer service rep might have been following a required script to save money by avoiding providing recommendations to an appropriate level of medical expertise, or might not be knowledgeable enough about medical issues to understand what was being explained, or might not care enough to listen carefully, or might undervalue the patient's needs because of sexism or ableism....but it's probably some mix of at least a couple of these possibilities.


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skibum
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10 Feb 2025, 1:33 pm

Yes. It's a shame that that is how it works but that is the reality of the situation.


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Jakki
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10 Feb 2025, 3:07 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
He makes an assertion, you ask why he thinks it's so, and he won't answer. My guess is that he was lying in the first place and your probing caught him out. In my experience it's very common for service "providers" to use lame excuses to palm people off with nothing. Well done for going over his head and complaining. A lot of people would have just given up. Hope the supervisor does sort it out and you either get what you're looking for or at least a sensible answer to explain why they won't give you what you want.

I think if it had happened to me, I'd have felt angry. It's rather a soapbox theme with me - like I said, it's a common problem with service providers. If only they'd be up-front and honest about what they will do and what they won't, everybody could save a lot of time. But a lot of the world just isn't that sincere. As for why they do it, I guess they're trying to hide how useless they are, so they'll still get paid.

I don't know that it's necessarily a case of sexism, though there is probably still an attitude around in some quarters that holds that women are easier to fool than men. Being well-informed is probably the best way to avoid being cheated and fobbed off by service providers, regardless of your gender. Looks like you did quite well this time.



^^^^^^^^ 100% ^^^^^
...........Agreed.......... 8O

This may sound ableist ...but farming out jobs to other countries could be considered as subverting the USA economy
especially as before they did not...Often cultural differences in language a idioms can be easily misconstrued. Leading to longer times on the phone .Then add that many others countries peoples first language may not be American English.
Often resulting in Supervisor requests .
Am not intending to sounding bias . But bring facts to a awkward situation put upon US consumers in the mere interest of possibly slowing down , things that may cost financially to the company providing the service . Especially in the medical service industry, Where costs to providers charged by Doctors maybe exorbitant, Often .
( who is going to pay for those Cadillacs and Mercedes, and big houses they live in ? ) .Sarcasm.
Please pardon no insult meant to be implied upon any individual or group or otherwise misunderstood.

[ Please be advised latest generation of accent altering technology via AI is in use via some of the India contacts
I have encountered in getting service requests via phone. ] 1st experience , Via India representative, was noted
that a Indian accents was noted,upon service rep answering the phone,then changed to a hyper version sounding of a midwest cowboy .The phone call went well ...things addressed well, then at end of call, made a note to tell the service
that his accent app. Sounded quite good, Voice changed again to Indian accent , with a quick reply of " Thank You"
Wished them well and waited for automated survey about , call takers service,and rated it quite well. :D
Am normally noted to speak often with a midwestern accent recently :jester:


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nick007
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10 Feb 2025, 5:13 pm

skibum wrote:
I can definitely see both points of view. I have been encountering this kind of lazy incompetence all the time now in all areas of life and it really irritates me to no end.

I had not thought about the sexist angle though but there was a time when that kind of thinking that you mentioned was very common. So, I can understand if remnants of that are still lingering. What I have also found very often is that when I try to explain my medical situation to people, most of the time they try to convince me that I am incorrect in my understanding of my own condition that I have been living with for about 60 years and that I have some kind of anxiety or depressive disorder or low self-esteem issue or that I have delusions instead because they cannot understand why my brain and body do that they do. They try to drown me in their inappropriate and ridiculous suggestions on things they think I should do to "fix" myself and if I don't take their advice, they get angry and say that I am unwilling to be helped. I think that whenever people can't wrap their heads around a medical condition because they can't understand it or because they have never heard of it, they just assume that you must have some kind of mental illness that is making you create a condition that they don't believe actually exists.
Unfortunately this has been me & my girlfriend's experience as well. I learned not expect general practitioner type docs or even specialist to understand my issues. Lots of times as a kid I was dismissed by specialist & my parents were told that I was being a difficult patient & not to bring me back. For example I was born with a very rare low vision disorder that includes some color blindness & was not diagnosed till my senior year of high-school because my eye docs would not take me seriously. They assumed that I didn't know how to read till they handed me something up close & when I read that OK they said I was lying about my glasses not helping because I didn't like wearing glasses. I didn't like wearing glasses because they did not help my distance vision nearly enough & they have the trade-off of making my up close vision worse. If I had been diagnosed as a kid there's a chance I might have been able to receive some kind of free private tutoring instead of going to school & perhaps I would have been a bit more functional as an adult. I have various other issues as well that are more common but docs have been kind of lost as to how to treat me because the standard treatments do not work for me & the newer treatments are unaffordable.

I eventually learned I needed to take a more proactive role with my health. I do lots of research related to various medical & mental stuff & I tell my docs what I want from them in regards to my treatment. I also sometimes have to exaggerate or plain lie about experiencing a certain severity or symptoms to get meds prescribed that actually work well for me. Docs do not always take me seriously if I'm straight up honest. That does not always work though due to potential costs or concern about side-effects.

I don't know what kind of condition you were seeking a provider for skibum so I will also add that medical costs & health insurance can sometimes make treatment overly difficult or next to impossible. Health insurance doesn't want to cover certain things because the cost is insanely high so they look for reasons to deny treatment. Perhaps the insurance rep was recommending behavioral counseling because he thought it would be cheaper than trying to treat the actual condition.


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skibum
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10 Feb 2025, 5:14 pm

Jakki, I totally understand what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense, it's a good insight. But my insurance company does not farm out jobs so that doesn't apply in this case. All of the employees in my health insurance company are state employees.


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skibum
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10 Feb 2025, 5:18 pm

nick007 wrote:
skibum wrote:
I can definitely see both points of view. I have been encountering this kind of lazy incompetence all the time now in all areas of life and it really irritates me to no end.

I had not thought about the sexist angle though but there was a time when that kind of thinking that you mentioned was very common. So, I can understand if remnants of that are still lingering. What I have also found very often is that when I try to explain my medical situation to people, most of the time they try to convince me that I am incorrect in my understanding of my own condition that I have been living with for about 60 years and that I have some kind of anxiety or depressive disorder or low self-esteem issue or that I have delusions instead because they cannot understand why my brain and body do that they do. They try to drown me in their inappropriate and ridiculous suggestions on things they think I should do to "fix" myself and if I don't take their advice, they get angry and say that I am unwilling to be helped. I think that whenever people can't wrap their heads around a medical condition because they can't understand it or because they have never heard of it, they just assume that you must have some kind of mental illness that is making you create a condition that they don't believe actually exists.
Unfortunately this has been me & my girlfriend's experience as well. I learned not expect general practitioner type docs or even specialist to understand my issues. Lots of times as a kid I was dismissed by specialist & my parents were told that I was being a difficult patient & not to bring me back. For example I was born with a very rare low vision disorder that includes some color blindness & was not diagnosed till my senior year of high-school because my eye docs would not take me seriously. They assumed that I didn't know how to read till they handed me something up close & when I read that OK they said I was lying about my glasses not helping because I didn't like wearing glasses. I didn't like wearing glasses because they did not help my distance vision nearly enough & they have the trade-off of making my up close vision worse. If I had been diagnosed as a kid there's a chance I might have been able to receive some kind of free private tutoring instead of going to school & perhaps I would have been a bit more functional as an adult. I have various other issues as well that are more common but docs have been kind of lost as to how to treat me because the standard treatments do not work for me & the newer treatments are unaffordable.

I eventually learned I needed to take a more proactive role with my health. I do lots of research related to various medical & mental stuff & I tell my docs what I want from them in regards to my treatment. I also sometimes have to exaggerate or plain lie about experiencing a certain severity or symptoms to get meds prescribed that actually work well for me. Docs do not always take me seriously if I'm straight up honest. That does not always work though due to potential costs or concern about side-effects.

I don't know what kind of condition you were seeking a provider for skibum so I will also add that medical costs & health insurance can sometimes make treatment overly difficult or next to impossible. Health insurance doesn't want to cover certain things because the cost is insanely high so they look for reasons to deny treatment. Perhaps the insurance rep was recommending behavioral counseling because he thought it would be cheaper than trying to treat the actual condition.
WOW! I am so sorry you had to go through that. You were treated horribly. Thank goodness you were eventually able to get the help you needed.

You might be right about the insurance rep. My condition requires someone who is an out of the box thinking provider and they do not come cheap.


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