Can an ally be against homosexual marriage and sodomy?

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zekeboy
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Yesterday, 5:18 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

What goal did you have in mind with this thread? My thoughts: this specific forum is mostly about support and discussion for LGBT members. Being against homosexual marriage and gay sex is homophobic and would be inappropriate for this forum. If folks are denied the same rights as others due to race, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc., that’s bigotry in action. It would be like people posting in Women’s Discussion that it would be okay for women to not have the same rights that men do. I don’t think a thread there titled “Can a man be an ally but be against women voting and equal pay?” would go over very well and certainly not if anyone posted “yes.”

This isn’t about politics or philosophical outlooks; it’s about human rights.

Sorry, ma'am. I don't know what's appropriate to ask LGBT members - never talked to one, plus I'm new here.

enz
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Yesterday, 5:39 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

If we just cancel people instead of explaining why they are wrong they will remain incorrect. Having these conversations can cause personal growth. I think OP was genuine with his question and like us he's on the spectrum.

TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 5:40 pm

^ There might be more going on than this single thread. Also, attempts were made to shut down conversation/pushback. I was not canceling anyone but asking a question and voicing concerns about this thread in this forum.

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zekeboy
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Yesterday, 5:47 pm

enz wrote:

I think OP was genuine with his question and like us he's on the spectrum.

It was genuine with my question, and I'm indeed on the spectrum. Also, I'm really embarrassed by the aggressive responses I've received the day after I joined.

Last edited by zekeboy on 12 Feb 2025, 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 5:55 pm

zekeboy wrote:

enz wrote:

I think OP was genuine with his question and like us he's on the spectrum.

It was genuine with my question, and I'm indeed on the spectrum. Also, I'm really embarrassed by the aggressive responses I've received the day after I joined.

It's not the best introduction, but that doesn't mean it will forever define you in the eyes of other posters here.

Do you understand why it was poorly received?

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zekeboy
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Yesterday, 5:59 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

zekeboy wrote:

enz wrote:

I think OP was genuine with his question and like us he's on the spectrum.

It was genuine with my question, and I'm indeed on the spectrum. Also, I'm really embarrassed by the aggressive responses I've received the day after I joined.

It's not the best introduction, but that doesn't mean it will forever define you in the eyes of other posters here.

Do you understand why it was poorly received?

I'm afraid not, Mx. This is exactly why I only wanted a "yes" or "no" answer. It's a very sensitive topic, and I expected a fight if there was more to it than a final answer.

funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 6:07 pm

zekeboy wrote:

I'm afraid not, Mx. Also, this is exactly why I wanted a "yes" or "no" answer. It was a question related to a very sensitive topic, and I expected fights to start if I didn't clarify that.

Several of the answers have explained elements of why the responses were 'aggressive'. This one addresses a lot of it:

TwilightPrincess wrote:

Essentially the question comes off as tonedeaf, how can someone possibly be an ally while also opposing one's basic rights? If somebody sees your rights and interests as inherently inferior to theirs, they're not an ally.

Most of the 'aggressive' answers are really just people expanding on why their answer is no and why the premise is inherently flawed. I don't really the aggression you're alluding to, I just see people fleshing out their answer to provide the reasoning behind it.

zekeboy
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Yesterday, 6:10 pm

I was talking about in general, plus the tone of TwilightPrincess's question was very confrontational.

funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 6:16 pm

zekeboy wrote:

I was talking about in general, plus TwilightPrincess's question sounded confrontational.

Personally I read it as annoyed but also trying to understand if the question is motivated by naivety or malice (intended as trolling/bait). So, if it's a confrontation it's more how one would confront someone who might potentially be hostile rather than someone they know is hostile.

A bogey rather than a bandit, if you're familiar with that jargon.

zekeboy
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Yesterday, 6:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

zekeboy wrote:

I read it as annoyed too but really, really annoyed.

TwilightPrincess
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Yesterday, 6:23 pm

With stuff that’s been removed yesterday and today, including not long before this thread was posted if I’m remembering correctly, I may have been a bit annoyed but not excessively so. There’s been a fair amount of homophobia and transphobia on WP in recent months.

zekeboy wrote:

Sorry, ma'am. I don't know what's appropriate to ask LGBT members - never talked to one.

LGBT people want to be treated the same way and accorded the same rights as anyone else. I’m sure you wouldn’t like people opposing straight marriage and straight sex, claiming they are sins, perhaps especially not if there’s a long history of that sort of discrimination going on and worse.

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zekeboy
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Yesterday, 6:29 pm

enz
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Yesterday, 6:49 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:

I was not canceling anyone but asking a question and voicing concerns about this thread in this forum.

alright cancelling not the correct term, you didn't cut his mic and ban him from the internet

funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 7:03 pm

enz wrote:

TwilightPrincess wrote:

I was not canceling anyone but asking a question and voicing concerns about this thread in this forum.

alright cancelling not the correct term, you didn't cut his mic and ban him from the internet

Let's not give into the nonsense that asking a question or voicing criticism of an opinion is denying anyone their ability to express themselves. That purposeful disunderstanding is at the core of a lot of accusations of 'cancel culture' and it's always been horse dookie.

MatchboxVagabond
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Yesterday, 7:21 pm

Clearly not.

I'm not personally a fan of the use of the term ally here, but you're clearly not looking at somebody that's friendly to the community if they're OK with it, as long as you don't actually do anything to act on it. I thought we were past the point where people could say that and think that it was somehow an acceptable position.

colliegrace
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Yesterday, 7:39 pm

Eh... generally the answer be no, but.

As someone who is LGBTQ (I'm not cis and certainly not het), I was for a time "side B", meaning that I believed that same sex sex and marriage were barred from me for religious reasons.
I fully supported others getting married and banging whoever they want to bang. But for myself, I saw it as off-limits. I fully supported LGBTQ rights, but I saw choosing to abstain for religious reasons as valid.

I'm no longer "side B" personally, but I do respect those who are.

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