Why so many ASD and ASD like people portrait it as failure?

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colliegrace
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09 Feb 2025, 11:30 pm

Sidenote, I actually do not see going on disability as a failure, or failing.

I see it as a means to an end. I rather think I can be more successful and happy in life and can pursue the stuff I actually want to achieve.


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ToughDiamond
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10 Feb 2025, 2:44 am

colliegrace wrote:
Sidenote, I actually do not see going on disability as a failure, or failing.

I see it as a means to an end. I rather think I can be more successful and happy in life and can pursue the stuff I actually want to achieve.

Absolutely. Scoring benefits is an achievement. Far less of a failure than starving to death would be.



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10 Feb 2025, 11:01 am

AsaboveAsbelow wrote:
For diagnosis: autism is a spectrum flexible, people can learn ti deal with and switch from 2 to 1... please, don't spread false news and check your infomations.
This is insulting and quite wrong; you are badly misinformed.
Saying "Oh it's Ok - you just need to try harder" to someone on the spectrum is about as useful as suggesting it as a "fix" for someone's blindness.

Maybe this will help a little:

Image


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gwynfryn
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10 Feb 2025, 11:34 am

Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.



colliegrace
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10 Feb 2025, 11:40 am

Doesn't help that ASD involves difficulties we don't know how to explain until we learn about our own condition, and sometimes not even then. Before I understood what sensory processing disorder was (it's part of the diagnostic criteria for ASD), I had no way to explain that sometimes I would feel sick for no apparent reason.

Now granted, people still don't believe me even when I have the words to explain.


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funeralxempire
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10 Feb 2025, 11:41 am

gwynfryn wrote:
Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.


If this is winning the lottery I'd hate to see what losing the lottery gets you.

It's not much of a lottery is the prize is here's a bunch of maladaptive traits, may your life be interesting.


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ToughDiamond
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10 Feb 2025, 12:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
gwynfryn wrote:
Be careful with definitions and diagnoses here; there are certainly a host of dificulties now described as ASD, but to me, being Autistic is like winning life's lottery! It hasn't been easy, when having to deal with those stange NTs, but otherwise there is no one else I'd rather be. I'm not alone in this; those few who I've encountered on the net, that I considered kindred spirits, and who are thus probably Autistic by the same definition (the historic one; it's an aspect of personality) were unanimous in this espect.


If this is winning the lottery I'd hate to see what losing the lottery gets you.

It's not much of a lottery is the prize is here's a bunch of maladaptive traits, may your life be interesting.

You may well be correct with regard to very many cases of ASD, but I expect there are some for whom the benefits outweigh any downside. Beyond a few relatively minor tweaks I wouldn't want to change my nature. It's rare that I've envied anybody else's brain, and I'm perfectly capable of envy. But maybe I don't know what I'm missing.



colliegrace
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10 Feb 2025, 12:28 pm

Autism is a cluster of traits, some good, some bad, some neutral. I can see some having a better mixed hodgepodge than others.

For me, I also get hyperfixations so intense that they send me into hypomania, and possibly full on mania. Like, legit. The kind of thing you see in bipolar disorder. (I'm not bipolar, for sure. You can have mania without being bipolar. Bipolar is a pattern, and many things can trigger mania in a human. It's an excess of dopamine.)

Like I'll run on next to no sleep for weeks on end, I'll have so much giddy, hyper energy, I'll talk fast, I'll be extra spacey, I'll do things like go on walks for hours, etc. Also be more careless and spend my money like mad.

I've also had hyperfixations become addictions with withdrawals and everything.


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Currently in early stages of recovering from autistic burnout.

RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)


Double Retired
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10 Feb 2025, 12:43 pm

While there are many possible mistakes to be made, I'll warn folk here not to make the same mistake I made shortly after I was diagnosed. I thought I'd done reasonably well for myself.

Then I thought "I wonder if there are any famous Autistic people..."
I made the mistake of checking.

My ego was crushed. 8O They appeared to me to be so much better than me.

Eventually I remembered it was a spectrum. We're all different. Even famous Autistics probably had their struggles with it.

P.S. I've never gone weeks without sleep...but...

I worked for a government contractor. We were the lead contractor on a bid. I was our contact for one aspect of the bid. Feel sorry for my contacts from the other companies. The government asked a question in our purview. I now know my response can be attributed to Autism...

I went in at my normal time on Tuesday morning. Got the question. Began working on a response with the contacts from the other companies. When I was still there when my manager returned from lunch on Thursday he threw me out.

Feel especially sorry for those contacts from the other companies. They tried stay up with me. Later I did apologize to them.


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10 Feb 2025, 7:51 pm

Eh.

Apparently I have a particular trait that not a lot humans tend to have; to make do out of certain things. Let alone autistics.

This includes unmaskable disability.
To a point I'd be confident to live alone while being "actually disabled".

It's not a common trait.
On the outside, it looked like resilience, optimism, adaptability...

I chalk it off as cultural.
I really thought it's because of the culture I live and grew up with because those are the traits known yhe culture for.

Then I met other autistics within my country.
They don't have that mentality either.
They mostly have the similar mentality as the countless stories I've read over and over...

Making that particular privilege trait more mine than of something else.



It's a trait I possess that I'm more obsessed over than anything about autism, you see.

Not even high IQ types could figure.

Just that having the appropriate level of executive function is an exponential multiplier to it's effectiveness.


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AsaboveAsbelow
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Yesterday, 12:24 pm

Cornflake wrote:
AsaboveAsbelow wrote:
For diagnosis: autism is a spectrum flexible, people can learn ti deal with and switch from 2 to 1... please, don't spread false news and check your infomations.
This is insulting and quite wrong; you are badly misinformed.
Saying "Oh it's Ok - you just need to try harder" to someone on the spectrum is about as useful as suggesting it as a "fix" for someone's blindness.

Maybe this will help a little:

Image


I doesn't disappear but modern mindful practice help to deal with, isn't an insult... simple modern world, modern psychology got evolved.

Btw, I do check my resources... usually based on DSM 5, university resources. I'm sorry. Btw an image isn't a resource.

Quote:
Levels of Autism: An Explanation
Elizabeth Quaye
| Publish Date April 22, 2024
levels of autism
The American Psychiatric’s Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR) provides the criteria for ASD diagnosis based on specific symptom profiles. As part of these criteria, the DSM-5-TR outlines specifiers of symptom severity, which it categorizes as “levels.”

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a complex developmental disorder involving persistent deficits in social communication and interaction in addition to restricted, repetitive behaviors, interests, and activities.1,2 The American Psychiatric’s Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR) provides the criteria for ASD diagnosis based on specific symptom profiles.1 As part of these criteria, the DSM-5-TR outlines specifiers of symptom severity, which it categorizes as “levels.”1 This article describes the criteria and various levels of symptom severity used in the diagnosis of ASD.
Changes to the Autism Diagnosis

Autism was first identified as a distinct diagnosis in DSM-III, which was published in 1980.3 In DSM-IV-TR, a patient with symptoms of autism would likely be diagnosed with 1 of 4 disorders under the category of pervasive developmental disorder (PDD): autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, or PDD not otherwise specified.4 However, because researchers determined that these 4 diagnoses were not consistently applied by different clinicians, PDD was replaced with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in DSM-5.4 A patient who met the criteria for 1 of the 4 PDD diagnosis in DSM-IV-TR will likely meet the criteria for ASD in DSM-5.4
DSM-5-TR Criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder

The DSM-5-TR criteria for ASD are summarized as follows1:

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction as manifested by all of the following:

Deficiencies in social-emotional reciprocity (examples: inability to engage in normal back-and-forth conversation, reduced sharing of interests/emotions/affect, failure to initiate or respond to social interactions);
Deficiencies in nonverbal gestures used in social interaction (examples: problems with eye contact, body language, or understanding/using gestures, lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication); and
Deficiencies in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships (examples: lack of interest in peers, difficulty making friends).

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least 2 of the following:

Repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (examples: body rocking, arm or hand flapping, lining up toys, repeating words just spoken by another person);
Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routine, or ritualized patterns of behavior (examples: difficulty with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, needing to eat the same food each day);
Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (examples: a strong attachment to peculiar objects); and
Hypersensitivity or hyporeactivity to sensory input or abnormal interest in sensory aspects of the environment (examples: indifference to pain or temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures).

C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period.

D. Symptoms significantly impair social, occupational, or other important functional areas.

E. Deficits are not better explained by intellectual disability or global developmental delay.
Specifiers for the ASD diagnosis include the following1:

With or without accompanying intellectual impairment;
With or without accompanying language impairment;
Associated with a known medical or genetic condition or environmental factor;
Associated with another neurodevelopmental, mental, or behavioral disorder;
With catatonia, and
The current severity specifiers.

The 3 Levels of Autism Spectrum Disorder

The current severity specifiers consist of 3 levels, ranging from least severe (Level 1) to most severe (Level 3). The severity of each of the 2 main criterion — social communication and restricted, repetitive behaviors — should be rated separately.1
Level 1: Requires Support

Individuals with ASD categorized as Level 1 have the least severe symptoms and require the lowest level of support.

Social communication: Patients classified as Level 1 will have noticeable impairments unless supports are in place. They generally have difficulty initiating social interactions and will give atypical responses to others’ social overtures. Patients classified as Level 1 may have a reduced interest in social interactions. For example, a person specified as Level 1 might be able to speak full sentences and communicate, but would not be able to have a mutual, back-and-forth conversation. Additionally, their efforts to make friends often fail.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: These individuals’ rigid behavior limits their ability to function in 1 or more contexts. They tend to have challenges alternating between activities, and their independence is hindered by issues with organization and planning.1
Level 2: “Requires Substantial Support”

Patients with ASD classified as Level 2 have more severe symptoms that cause greater impairment and require substantial support.1

Social communication: Patients specified as Level 2 have marked deficits in verbal and nonverbal social communication skills. Even with support, their social impairments are apparent. They generally have limited ability to initiate social interactions, and will provide decreased or aberrant responses to others’ social overtures. For example, a patient classified as Level 2 might be able to speak basic sentences, but their interactions with others would be limited to narrow special interests, and their nonverbal communication would be odd.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: Individuals with ASD Level 2 have inflexible behavior, problems adjusting to change, or similar behaviors that are frequent enough to be obvious and interfere with functioning in various contexts. They also have distress and/or difficulty changing focus or action.1
Level 3: “Requires Very Substantial Support”

Patients with ASD specified as Level 3 have the most severe symptoms and require very substantial support.1

Social communication: Individuals classified as Level 3 have extreme deficits in verbal and nonverbal social communication that cause severe impairments in functioning. Their ability to initiate social interactions is very limited, and they will provide minimal response to others’ social overtures. They tend to only respond to very direct social approaches. For example, a patient specified as Level 3 would have very few words of intelligible speech and would rarely initiate interactions with others.1

Restricted, repetitive behaviors: Patients with Level 3 exhibit inflexible behaviors, problems adjust to change, or similar behaviors that interfere with every aspect of their lives. They experience tremendous distress and difficulty changing focus or action.1
How the Levels Are Used

Using the levels to clarify the severity of ASD symptoms gives clinicians and caregivers information they can use to tailor services and support specific to an individual patient’s needs. However, it is important to recognize that these levels are only used to describe the patient’s current symptomatology.1 Symptoms of ASD might fluctuate over time; can vary greatly based on the patient’s developmental level, age, environment, and other characteristics; and might fall below Level 1.1

While helpful, the levels should not be used to determine a patient’s eligibility for specific services or treatments; that requires an individualized assessment that takes into account the patient’s personal priorities and goals.1

References:

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR). American Psychiatric Association Publishing. Accessed February 28, 2022. https://www.appi.org/dsm5tr
What is autism spectrum disorder? American Psychiatric Association. 2023. Accessed February 7, 2024. https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-fam ... m-disorder
Autism in the DSM. The Autism History Project. Herman E. 2019. Accessed February 29, 2024. https://blogs.uoregon.edu/autismhistory ... n-the-dsm/
DSM-5 autism spectrum disorder fact sheet. American Psychiatric Association. Published 2013. Accessed February 8, 2024. https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... sorder.pdf


Image


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AsaboveAsbelow
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Yesterday, 12:31 pm

colliegrace wrote:
Autism is a cluster of traits, some good, some bad, some neutral. I can see some having a better mixed hodgepodge than others.

For me, I also get hyperfixations so intense that they send me into hypomania, and possibly full on mania. Like, legit. The kind of thing you see in bipolar disorder. (I'm not bipolar, for sure. You can have mania without being bipolar. Bipolar is a pattern, and many things can trigger mania in a human. It's an excess of dopamine.)

Like I'll run on next to no sleep for weeks on end, I'll have so much giddy, hyper energy, I'll talk fast, I'll be extra spacey, I'll do things like go on walks for hours, etc. Also be more careless and spend my money like mad.

I've also had hyperfixations become addictions with withdrawals and everything.


The problem is ignorance:
1) yes, ASD is a spectrum and is flexible;
2) not only ASD got problems, the problem is mostly in depression & stress & burn out which isn't exclusively ASD at contrary is universal;
3 ASD stand alone is neutral, is PSTD the problem and burn out and melting down and shout down...

I'm the kind of person who check, read and understand it... won't disapprear but mindfulness exists.
Modern pyschology is based on psycho analysis, Jung and Freud... reject it is like say the heart is flat.
If a psychologist study for 10 years something there's a motivation... for the "levels aren't flexible", false.
You could find this insulting but won't change the reality... you can also find insulting that we are animals, we are animals.


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Rancore - Arlecchino


Last edited by AsaboveAsbelow on 12 Feb 2025, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AsaboveAsbelow
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Yesterday, 12:32 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
Eh.

Apparently I have a particular trait that not a lot humans tend to have; to make do out of certain things. Let alone autistics.

This includes unmaskable disability.
To a point I'd be confident to live alone while being "actually disabled".

It's not a common trait.
On the outside, it looked like resilience, optimism, adaptability...

I chalk it off as cultural.
I really thought it's because of the culture I live and grew up with because those are the traits known yhe culture for.

Then I met other autistics within my country.
They don't have that mentality either.
They mostly have the similar mentality as the countless stories I've read over and over...

Making that particular privilege trait more mine than of something else.



It's a trait I possess that I'm more obsessed over than anything about autism, you see.

Not even high IQ types could figure.

Just that having the appropriate level of executive function is an exponential multiplier to it's effectiveness.


As I said ignorance from both: if you accept other's views and limits they aren't limits.


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"Before selling his soul to the painting, he didn’t see it was a caricature He doesn’t seek a pact with the devil if it’s an eternal pain And he lives on the edge between a flying castle and a world inland Now a shadow moves in Italy, stealing while pretending to be a parody Do you know a road, perhaps a secondary one? Gondolier, take him away"
Rancore - Arlecchino


colliegrace
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Yesterday, 7:21 pm

AsaboveAsbelow wrote:

The problem is ignorance

Agreed: yours

ASD burnout exists because of many factors that are unique to autism, including masking and sensory processing disorder. While SPD can also be a diagnosis separate from ASD, it is commonly enough paired with ASD that it's part of the diagnostic criteria. I definitely have SPD as this was part of the notes in my diagnosis letter, and SPD is a big reason why I had to quit my job. In addition to frequent meltdowns.

While I have mental illness and a history of seasonal depression, it actually has nothing to do with what I'm going through with burnout right now. I had been in and out of therapy for years, and am good at knowing myself and what I deal with. Depression and anxiety are different from autistic burnout, they feel very different.

The BS you are spewing is not supported by the available research, and I am not giving you anymore time of day. f**k off into the sun. You're pushy and know-it-all af.


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ASD level 1 & ADHD-C (professional dx), dyscalcula (self dx), very severe RSD.
Currently in early stages of recovering from autistic burnout.

RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)


Last edited by colliegrace on 12 Feb 2025, 7:33 pm, edited 8 times in total.

colliegrace
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Yesterday, 7:24 pm

AsaboveAsbelow wrote:

As I said ignorance from both: if you accept other's views and limits they aren't limits.

Oh f**k off. My views are my own, entirely. No one's telling me my limits, I had to learn them myself and am quite capable (and have) done my own reading.


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ASD level 1 & ADHD-C (professional dx), dyscalcula (self dx), very severe RSD.
Currently in early stages of recovering from autistic burnout.

RAADs: 104 | ASQ: 30 | CAT-Q: 139 | Aspie Quiz: 116/200 (84% probability of being atypical)


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Yesterday, 10:41 pm

I don't see my autism as a failure. I see it as a different way as being. Some people are meant to be 9 to 5ers and other people are meant to be hippies. I'm meant to be a hippie. My sister works in an office. I'm not inferior to my sister at all. I'm just different. Sometimes, it's okay to be different.


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