Ukraine and the USA/Russia peace talks

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Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has delivered an extraordinarily pointed message to European leaders during a speech in Germany, strongly implying that the United States can no longer be trusted to oppose Russia under the administration of Donald Trump.

He referred quite directly to US Vice President J.D. Vance’s remarks.

“Just yesterday, here in Munich, the US Vice President made it clear. The old relationship between Europe and America is ending, and Europe needs to adjust to that,” he said.

Mr Zelensky went on to advocate for a European army, something that has been suggested – with no small measure of controversy – before. The fear, in Ukraine, is that US President Donald Trump intends to negotiate a peace deal directly with Vladimir Putin, cutting Ukrainians out of the process.

So he basically will reject any deal between Putin and trump. He is calling for a European army will unlikely happen as it would put all of Europe at risk for the sake of Ukraine not to mention send the world spiralling into economic collapse and recession that will take more than a decade to recover from.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... e5721eadb1

The only one sabotaging peace in Europe is Russia, recently as of 2014.

Before, after WWII when they were annexing their neighbours and created SSSR. Or when they tried to exterminate Ukrainians in Holodomor in 1933.

You can't have peace talks without involving Ukraine as a full partner, therefore Zelensky can't sabotage the peace talks because they were invalid from the get-go.

I'm just saying, he hasn't even let the process start before running to the EU whining about not trusting trump and Vance. As if the EU would create some type of WWII type alliance and declare war on Russia? absurd. France and Germany learned their lesson from WWII, I think the words quoted back then were "never again".

The process is inherently invalid.

If me and Bestiola start holding talks to discuss how we're divvying up your bank account (which we've unlawfully gained control over) you'd call the cops on us, not wait and let the process start.

It's interesting that you make a reference to Europe and WWII, when this is not too different from the Munich Betrayal. You know, when the Nazis and Bri'ish decided how much of Czechoslovakia the Nazis were allowed to steal, without ever involving Czechoslovakia.

But who else has expansionist plans?
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/12 ... ce-russia/

Interesting, these conflicts are never black and white. Zelensy is playing his fiddle to NATO in a bid to throw a spanner into the US talks.

He is also complaining about Israel and China
https://www.politico.eu/article/zelensk ... ce-summit/

I'm not necessarily blaming Zelensky, he's doing what he thinks is best for Ukraine's interests. But I am pointing out the western world (including us Australians) will be paying for this Ukrainian resistance to peacetalks.

^ Has what was said at the recent defense summit in Brussels by Hegseth and Vance penetrated your worldview yet?

Where they went completely off topic and lectured those present about freedom of speech and not expecting the USA to contribute more to their defense (an interesting take from one NATO member to the others, where the basic premise is an attack on one results in a response from all).

How Hegseth took an arrogant, astonishingly misinformed unilateral view in telling them that it was "unrealistic" to expect Ukraine to return to its pre-2014 borders and downplayed the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO.

Hmm. Imperialism, much?

Today I read that Ukraine has not been invited to the UAE talks between the USA and Russia.
Europe is also excluded.

Elsewhere the Orange Shytestain is waffling about the USA taking - taking - 50% of Ukraine's mineral deposits as some sort of payment for the defense already freely given by the USA - and others in Europe.

So perhaps you can understand that, in the face of a deal already covertly carved out between the USA and Russia in which the invaded party (that's Ukraine, a sovereign state and the innocent party here) gets to shut up and do as it's told - has Zelensky feeling more than a little aggrieved that he's being excluded from a discussion involving invaders of the country of which he is president.

I look at this from a geopolitical angle, the US, NATO and Russia are superpowers/blocs and I can understand why they might be talking to each other before including Ukraine.

I am also looking at this from a pragmatic view. Any peacetalk will ultimately require some type of demarcation line (Like with Israel, Korea or Cyprus). Usually the more powerful aggressor (in this case Russia) will demand holding on to their areas of control. I think the onus should be on the US and NATO putting peacekeeping troops in existing areas the Ukrainians are holding so Russia can't move any further. Help Ukraine hold their existing line. Ukrainian nationalists may not be happy about this but I don't see any other way.

this has happened elsewhere in other conflicts before where peacekeepers have been deployed. Nobody forced turkey for example to give back Cyprus?

Trump is the one doing the sabotaging by inviting Putin to make some kind of deal about Ukraine, a sovereign country. The US is not at war with Russia, so there can not be any peace agreement between Trump and Putin.

^ 100%.

With that in mind the dishonest thread title probably ought to be changed.

^ In the interests of keeping the peace, I'm happy to change the title

Trump needs to be appearing to be in, with Russia......its let make a deal time .....Trump is quoted as wanting minerals
for special materials mining in parts of Ukraine ...So if Zelensky feels the pressure,? Trump may think , he will get a better deal on Ukrainian Minerals...If the pressure is on..... But Zelensky is playing the Army of the EU... card..? As a just in case.? perhaps ?