Zelenskyy's meeting with Trump, Vance goes very badly

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funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 3:39 pm

Unbiased news literally doesn't exist, so you repeatedly insisting that she's unbiased is mostly an admission you're not able to evaluate bias effectively. Ironically, a lot of Indian nationals dismiss her as an example of godi media (lapdog media).

As for that site, it's worth noting that they don't evaluate media outlets for whether or not they repeat any particular state's propaganda claims uncritically, making them useless when evaluating Firstpost repeating Russian narratives uncritically.


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Yesterday, 3:47 pm

Trump 2.0 has been a wakeup call for many. My question is why were other countries sleeping so long? Ask the Afghans how reliable we are. The signs that we are becoming a dysfunctional country have been obvious for years and years now.

Biden is not without fault here. He gave Ukraine enough help not to lose but not enough to win. We have been doing this s**t for decades. The American public is impatient so losing support or at least the initial enthusiasm was inevitable. There was legitimate fear that giving Ukraine enough to win would lead to war with Russia which could go nuclear. We did let the Soviet Union subjugate Hungary and Czechoslovakia during the cold war. On the other hand Russia is not the old Soviet Union. Tough call but doing it the way we did it is trying to have it both ways which does not work.

Trump supporting zionists need to take a good look at what happened here. He will turn on you in an instant if you don’t do exactly what he wants.


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Yesterday, 4:10 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jd-vance-and-family-flee-to-undisclosed-location-due-to-angry-mob-after-zelensky-fallout/ar-AA1A3ZDa

What was Vance doing in Bernie Country anyway? VT is not only the bluest state in the country, but their entire Congressional delegation is in the Progressive Caucus (Bernie, Peter Welch and Becca Balint).


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funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 4:13 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jd-vance-and-family-flee-to-undisclosed-location-due-to-angry-mob-after-zelensky-fallout/ar-AA1A3ZDa

What was Vance doing in Bernie Country anyway? VT is not only the bluest state in the country, but their entire Congressional delegation is in the Progressive Caucus (Bernie, Peter Welch and Becca Balint).


He figured he could pwn the libs only to realize half way through he lacks the intestinal fortitude to pwn anyone.


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Yesterday, 4:20 pm

cyberdora wrote:
an unbiased view of the Ukraine situation which pretty much says what I've been trying to say. Now I'm out.

Oh enough. I have had enough of spending my life tolerating people who advocate "unbiased" this, "moderate" that. Do you know how biased you have to be to think this is a Both Sides conflict? Being neutral in this conflict is a sign of many things, but it is NOT a sign of objectivity.

People, mainly on the right and center, have this obnoxious tendency to act like having a strong opinion is a sign of bias or irrationality. The opposite is true. We live in a society that kisses those people's asses because we, as a society, lack the courage to stand up and say: "Yes both sides are imperfect, but one side is still infinitely more to blame than the other."
People's refusal to take sides in the name of "objectivity" is nothing but a sign of moral spinelessness. Sometimes one side is right, the other is wrong, and you're wrong for suggesting both sides have something valuable to say. They don't. No Putin or Trump apologist has anything worth saying on the subject. Sorry if my moral certainty is upsetting to those who would equate the bully with the victim


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funeralxempire
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Yesterday, 4:32 pm

^ Well said. A lot of people conflate objectivity and neutrality.


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Yesterday, 5:15 pm

I thought this was more useful here than the PPR cartoons thread -

Image


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Yesterday, 5:50 pm

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Yesterday, 5:50 pm

^^^
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:


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Today, 7:43 am

It's crystal clear as to why the right hates Zelenskyy: He's Jewish.

They only support Israel/Netanyahu in order to fulfill end times prophecy. They are *not* friends of the Jewish people.


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Today, 3:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Considering Russia's rejection of liberal democracy along with their expansionist policies regarding former its republics, it's understandable why former parts of the Soviet Union and its satelites have been requesting NATO membership. If anything, Putin's been pushing these countries into NATO.
Regardless, the NATO encroachment argument that makes Russia the actual good guy is just a pretext for Putin to gobble up his neighbors in order to rebuild the Russian Empire. It's no secret that Putin sees the fall of the Soviet Union as his country's greatest tragedy, and that he wants to destroy the west, in particular the United States, for revenge.



Putin isn't a good guy, he's an egotistical oligarch. Trump isn't a good guy either, he is a narcissistic oligarch. Zelenskyy isn't a good guy, he a corrupt puppet who sold his soul to people who have long lusted after control of Ukrainian resources. From what I've heard from Russian and Ukrainian friends is that controlling those rare earth minerals worth potentially trillions has always been what put Ukraine in the middle. USSR had control, then lost it, and Putin does indeed want it back for those resources.

The problem is that many other powerful people have lusted after control of Ukraine's resources since the demise of the Soviet empire, and they are willing to use NATO and war to get what they want. NATO is the tool that Western elites have long used to enact and support regime change in many regions on earth they wanted to control. Biden and his cronies were more than happy to send US taxpayer money to Ukraine, rumor has long been that they only sent a fraction of those funds to Ukraine and funneled the rest into their hidden stashes. This may very well be part of the problem now with Trump demanding repayment in mineral resources for full amount from Zelenskyy. I think he knows he got played by Biden and now he feels trapped in between Trump, Putin, and NATO with no way out for him or Ukraine.


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Today, 3:41 pm

ShwaggyD wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Considering Russia's rejection of liberal democracy along with their expansionist policies regarding former its republics, it's understandable why former parts of the Soviet Union and its satelites have been requesting NATO membership. If anything, Putin's been pushing these countries into NATO.
Regardless, the NATO encroachment argument that makes Russia the actual good guy is just a pretext for Putin to gobble up his neighbors in order to rebuild the Russian Empire. It's no secret that Putin sees the fall of the Soviet Union as his country's greatest tragedy, and that he wants to destroy the west, in particular the United States, for revenge.



Putin isn't a good guy, he's an egotistical oligarch. Trump isn't a good guy either, he is a narcissistic oligarch. Zelenskyy isn't a good guy, he a corrupt puppet who sold his soul to people who have long lusted after control of Ukrainian resources. From what I've heard from Russian and Ukrainian friends is that controlling those rare earth minerals worth potentially trillions has always been what put Ukraine in the middle. USSR had control, then lost it, and Putin does indeed want it back for those resources.

The problem is that many other powerful people have lusted after control of Ukraine's resources since the demise of the Soviet empire, and they are willing to use NATO and war to get what they want. NATO is the tool that Western elites have long used to enact and support regime change in many regions on earth they wanted to control. Biden and his cronies were more than happy to send US taxpayer money to Ukraine, rumor has long been that they only sent a fraction of those funds to Ukraine and funneled the rest into their hidden stashes. This may very well be part of the problem now with Trump demanding repayment in mineral resources for full amount from Zelenskyy. I think he knows he got played by Biden and now he feels trapped in between Trump, Putin, and NATO with no way out for him or Ukraine.


Just whose puppet is Zelensky supposed to be? And just how is he supposed to be corrupt?
NATO the tool of western elites? Evidence please.
The Joe Biden the right has conjured up for the sake of political gain bears little resemblance to the real man. Rumors that he took advantage of Ukraine are just that: only rumors. I seriously doubt he's the money grubbing monster that Putin or Trump fit better with.
Putin wants more than just Ukraine's mineral wealth. He is hellbent on rebuilding the Russian Empire, which means gobbling up the former Soviet Republics.
J


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Today, 4:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Unbiased news literally doesn't exist, so you repeatedly insisting that she's unbiased is mostly an admission you're not able to evaluate bias effectively.


Relatively unbiased then. Aren't all of you relying on western news and media people and academics for your own information? How is that better exactly?

I scan mainstream sources but triangulate with non-western sources for news. Media outlets in India may have their own biases but when it comes to Europe and America they give a different perspective than the prevailing one sided "west is best" and "we are moral arbiters of the world".

Zelensky is asking for permission to have the option to triggering mutually assured destruction
https://www.politico.eu/article/give-uk ... zelenskyy/

there are idiots in the EU who think its a good idea to hand over nuclear weapons to Zelensky. You will have to excuse the Indian media they aren't enamoured in joining the rush to destroy themselves in order to prop up a nationalist regime that happens to be anti-Russian.



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Today, 4:37 pm

cyberdora wrote:

Zelensky is asking for permission to have the option to triggering mutually assured destruction
https://www.politico.eu/article/give-uk ... zelenskyy/

there are idiots in the EU who think its a good idea to hand over nuclear weapons to Zelensky. You will have to excuse the Indian media they aren't enamoured in joining the rush to destroy themselves in order to prop up a nationalist regime that happens to be anti-Russian.


Nationalist regime? That's Russia, not Ukraine. They just want to survive and not be a part of the Soviet Empire again.

You're forgetting what happened in 1994, when Ukraine gave away all their nuclear weapons (and it was the third nuclear power in the world) in exchange for its independence. The US and the Russian Federation promised to respect their sovereignty. What happened to their promise? This is what happens when you trust the Russians and the US, you get punished for trying to defend your territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_a ... 20in%20the

Quote:
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

— Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine's Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons[13]



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Today, 4:46 pm

ShwaggyD wrote:

Biden and his cronies were more than happy to send US taxpayer money to Ukraine, rumor has long been that they only sent a fraction of those funds to Ukraine and funneled the rest into their hidden stashes.

Rumor is that these rumors are fabricated and spread as part of a Russian desinformation campaign.


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Today, 5:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Just whose puppet is Zelensky supposed to be? And just how is he supposed to be corrupt?
NATO the tool of western elites? Evidence please.
The Joe Biden the right has conjured up for the sake of political gain bears little resemblance to the real man. Rumors that he took advantage of Ukraine are just that: only rumors. I seriously doubt he's the money grubbing monster that Putin or Trump fit better with.
Putin wants more than just Ukraine's mineral wealth. He is hellbent on rebuilding the Russian Empire, which means gobbling up the former Soviet Republics.
J



Who is Zelenskyy a puppet for? That is a good question, one with no definitive answer. Some believe it is intelligence community such as CIA, MI6, and/or Mossad. Others believe it is a global 'shadow government'. Some even believe it is Israel because of Zelenskyy being Jewish.





NATO is an alliance of Western nations, which means it is working for the leaders of those nations. These leaders made a verbal agreement Russia that NATO would not expand east, but soon broke that agreement. The US has had a long history of using the CIA and NATO to help cause regime change in many countries for decades.


Quote:
...The alliance, after all, was created in the aftermath of World War II to meet specific regional and situational strategic challenges posed by the Soviet Union. So long as it stayed within those original parameters and geographic limits, it successfully deterred the threat of Soviet expansionism in Europe.

However, as NATO’s mission devolved and lost its focus after the end of the Cold War, it has become increasingly apparent that the alliance has shed its defensive basis and been reconceived as an organization whose primary directive is to expand America’s sphere of influence globally through the continuous encroachment on various regional powers’ more immediate spheres of interest. NATO’s rhetoric and actions — especially since its intervention in Yugoslavia in 1999 — signal an intentional strategic shift toward adopting a globalized agenda, thereby facilitating its transition to become the global military arm for the U.S.-led liberal international order. Ironically, this rather aggressive and maximalist reorientation also puts America’s core national interests at risk. This systematic push for subordinating the strategic autonomy of NATO’s relatively powerful members to Washington’s priorities is often achieved through a neo-Wilsonian approach. This approach instrumentalizes the nationalism of smaller states to justify intervention abroad, diluting a more robust idea of American national interest here at home. The national self-determination of smaller states outside NATO is utilized to guilt and unify the alliance behind the U.S. foreign policy establishment’s priorities. In the process, this approach undermines the agency, sovereignty, and foreign policy of many allied states, not to mention those of the American people.

NATO’s new raison d’etre has thus become the global defense of smaller faultline nation-states — which are not party to the alliance — from revisionist great powers that dare to challenge U.S. global hegemony by insisting on their own historical sphere of interest. This is especially questionable in a world moving towards multipolarity and away from the stark binaries propagated by those who defend permanent U.S.-centered alliance networks using ideological frameworks and Cold War logic.

Given its highly bureaucratic and top-down structure, NATO displays intense disapprobation of member states that attempt to assert their own interests. This often occurs when member states seek new minilateral security arrangements with countries outside the alliance or even work together to sidestep the alliance and create more localized alternative arrangements.1 Such diplomatic and strategic maneuvers are particularly obstructed when their aims contradict NATO’s institutional agenda.



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