The 80/20 percent thing

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I knew service members in the army who were maximally mediocre in terms of personality and appearance and social standing, score repeatedly. these folks were socially intelligent and knew how to talk to people persuasively.

I am reasonably certain that the scientific method requires the claim of hypergamy to prove itself true in order to be taken as true - as opposed to simply taking it as true unless and until proven false. A common logical fallacy in action.

There's a difference between a woman who's not interested in dating, and a woman who's not interested in dating YOU.

Lots of women suddenly have "schroedingers boyfriend" if they're being hit on by someone they don't like.

And that's still the elephant in the room - the unspoken assumption that one is definitely spiffy enough to warrant attention - if only it wasn't for that pesky hypergamy.

Lotta guys aren't as nice as they think they are. Lotta guys aren't actually that nice at all, even though they think they are. Or funny, or polite, or interesting, or w/e else they think they are.

^^^ true

I think the real question for men who are in the position I was in (Emphasise past tense); where do "we" find these women? Finding Ms Right, it's literally like a game called "Where's Wally".

If I don't blame hypergamy and Chad Thundercock for my struggles, that might mean I have to look at myself as the source of my struggles and that's definitely not it. I mean, my mom says I'm cool so it's definitely not my lack of hygiene or rizz; so it's definitely something that's being done to me unfairly.

Oh believe me I've seen absolutely despicable overweight arrogant loser fellows who seem to have had no trouble finding female intimate (normie) partners. Like prisoners who get fanmail from females. It's almost like there's some type of secret code they know that the rest of us poor suckers weren't privy to.

But of course, we men aren't always self-aware. Something called "social intelligence" which I suspect men who fail in dating struggle with. Yes, you can be "Jesus Christ" and wave your magic wand but something as simple as have poor sinuses and not being able to smell yourself then there's several years of failed dating waiting for you. Some men are cursed with bad body odour and no amount of cologne will help. I'm not making excuses but one thing I could have done better in my 20s is save money for better clothes. I literally purchased all my clothes from target and kmart (including work clothes) so that alone probably screamed "not cashed up" to any prospective female.

In a limited competitive marketplace, any slip up and you are joining the ever growing ranks of the incel club.

Oh the struggle was real. But to be fair, when it did rain females (and I had a few 7-8s interested in me over the years) I also pulled the same straw man BS on them too (like she's a little overweight, she's a little too extroverted, Why is she so into me? so weird, I don't feel comfortable, she made me sandwiches, what does she want? She wants to marry me!! and its only our third date!). So yes I am guilty of sending women mixed signals.

By popular I mean that women want to engage with you and find you attractive. They want to talk with you. They want to go on a date with you. They want to have sex with you. They want to have a romantic relationship with you.

Reason I ask is because I was "popular" for a period but women just wanted to be my friend.

When I was younger I had the opposite problem. I thought it was very easy for me to make female friends, until I realized they had a sexual interest. The solution for me was to go against my instincts and behave more "friendly" with them and try to act in a way that made me appear un-charismatic and defuse any sexual feelings. I don't know if this makes any sense to you, but maybe you could try the other way around.

It's been a couple of days and the thread seems to have gone in a different direction, but I do feel I must expand on my previous comments.

So when I said I found at least half the women my age attractive enough for me to come onto, by that I mean that I would engage with them with the specific intent of getting sex, but not necessarily as serious long-term partners. If that triggers anyone, I hasten to point out that in many cases, these women were also open for sex without the understanding that having it implied a long term commitment.

Rather than simply making such a claim, let me first state that before meeting my wife, I was in just two really "serious" relationships including my first ever girlfriend. Before meeting the next serious girlfriend, I was in 3 what one might today call "situationships".

The first involved one of my first girlfriend's school chums who invited me to visit her in the city where she was living. The first night I was there, I went into her bedroom looking for a pillow, and when I walked up to her bed, she grabbed my wrist and pulled me into the bed. To the point of this thread, I did not think her super attractive however I did sort of hope maybe she was interested in sex, which she was because she hadn't had any for many months and really just wanted to experience it again. However, I am quite certain I wasn't sufficiently interested in her to make a bid for something more serious, but that didn't seem to bother her. She was at the time still in the market for something serious and she did eventually get into a serious relationship. She should have felt somewhat insulted by the fact that I wasn't that attracted to her but she didn't seem to care. But yes had I been more attracted I think I would have pursued something more serious, offered to move to her city, etc. Which I did not.

In the 2nd situation, a woman several years older approached me at an organizational event, invited me to her apartment, then offered sex after I got there. I don't know how long she had "gone without" but on that evening it would seem she didn't want to spend the night by herself. In this case, I am somewhat on the fence as to how attractive I found her. By some standards, she was more attractive than the previous person I discussed, but having just turned 23 I wasn't sure how I felt about somebody that much older, but once again had I been more interested I could have committed to something long term and I didn't, and of course since she had initiated every aspect of the physical relationship, she couldn't really claim to have been used.

In the 3rd situation, I was at a University Summer program and there was only one apparent available woman who was actually about a year or so younger, but I will say very average "looks" if that. I started basically hanging around her, making conversation when I had the opportunity, but by no means suggesting anything sexual in the sense some people might intend when they talk about "hitting on someone". After a couple of days of this, I was walking down a street with her when she suddenly turned around to face me and said that if I were to buy a condom we could have sex. So I did. That situation ended rather badly because later on she expected to give me the sort of emotional support (of which she needed a fair amount) one expects from a serious partner but instead I met my second serious girlfriend and she never heard from me again.

This has been somewhat lengthy but the point I wanted to make was that I was willing to come on to people I found only marginally attractive but that doesn't mean I didn't care about attractiveness and I probably had a higher standard for considering someone as a serious long-term partner or spouse. If you read all of this, then hopefully you understand that when I was young I was fairly liberal with regard to attractiveness when it came to "approaching" women but the ones I found less attractive, although I was willing to "date" them, had less of a chance of a long-term commitment from me.

All this seemed different to me at the time. If I wasn't getting any sex, I was looking for someone to do it with, and before the inevitable judgment I am likely to face, I wanted to make clear that these were women who also wanted sex at least as much as I did, but I guess I still had "higher standards" regarding serious relationships and appearance. I guess young people nowadays are more sophisticated about such things and more inclined to judge their own interactions with other people, but back then I basically just did what seemed reasonable at the time.