Language ability

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I agree, it is hard to see it (AS traits) in your self. I took my wife 10 years to persuade me to admit to myself that what I had seen as personal quirks may be something more;)

I had quite a different school/childhood experience than yourself (well what you have written about). My school opted for an experimental approach to learning at year 11 (when I was 12/13) in year 10 I was top of the year in maths and science. However with the introduction of 'smile' (the rather patronising name of this new learning). I quickly fell to near the bottom.

This new style of learning removed all aspects of structure from the class room. Pupils were given a matrix of work cards and encouraged to work autonomously, even marking there own work. This was ment to allow the bright kids to ruse to the top and the not so adept kids to work at their own pace. It totally failed me however, I could not work with such a lack of structure.

After leaving school I managed to get to university and have recently took a Mensa IQ test and found I'm in the top 1% so I didn't do me too much harm. I have always enjoyed learning on my own (I'm also quite interested in quantum theory/string theory/holographic universe principle at the moment - not as much as russain though;)

some other AS stuff I have read fits in to. As a young kid I never wanted conventional toys. Instead I had collections of batteries, cogs, magnets and electronic motiors. I quickly learned how to take the family VCR apart and reassemble it;) I also have some sensory problems, (among others) I can not stand being in places with lots of background noise (Inc. Our office) I wear iPod ear buds 24/7 with or without music.

Relationships... Well I guess I'm lucky to have found an amazing girl who had a lot of patience:) my wife herself has never Been to 'conventional'.

As for friends... I have one best mate who had known me since I was v young and a few others who are more based around the web/design scene where I live. With out a connection to a strong interest, I can't seem to keep a friendship going. I don't do small talk (football, xfactor, trash tv etc). All I have to offer people in way of conversation is: web design principles, Russian language/history of the USSR, Quantum Physics or existentailist philosophy! Not bus-stop conversation eh! I did once give a poor lady on the bus a mini lecture on concept of higher dimensions by explaining to her how our 'dimension' could not be percieved by 2 dimensional comic strip 'dimension' on a table residing in our 'dimension' we could percieve it but not vice-versa. See I'm rambling now! Never know how to stop. I can't remember what sparked that conversation. I imagine the poor old lady was baffled though:)
I guess I'm just more interested in knowledge than what people are up to.

anyway... In (eventual) answer to your question. My GP (doctor) has refered me to a pysciatrist for a full formal diagnosis. I'm hoping to here something within the new year (these things can take time in the UK). He had however refered another patient in my area who went on to receive a diagnosis. As I mentioned in an earlier post. This all just seems to fit in away that nothing else does.

Oh, BTW as well ad having trouble with understanding facial expressions (which I can't do very well) I can't even regonise faces at all. If some one I know had a drastic hair cut I will
fail to regognisr them. This had leaf to all kinds of embarrasing situations. Have you ever come across anything like this?

Since I found out about AS it's like learning about myself for the first time. Reading of others like myself is very helpful/interesting. I hope the above 'monologue' is of some interest to youself:)

take care:)

Sorry for the appalling spelling in the above post. Not only I'm I dyslexic, I'm also typing on an iPhone!

@Inuit:
I liked reading your 'monologue'

Oh, interesting, I recently registered for taking a Mensa IQ test. I'd like to know where I am. I might be in the top 2% according to a valid and reliable online test. And I like taking tests Did you also read justMax's physicist's thread in the Science forum? What do you think of it?Same for me I have always been eager to learn and interested in how things work and in science, and as a child I used to check out how machines and other things work, sometimes ruined stuff as well, like my sister's alarm clock (turning the crown/key counterclockwise to see what would happen ) and I'm also not good at small talk, not into what most people are into.OK, hope it won't take too long.No, I never had anything like that. But it is not uncommon for ASD people. I'm not too bad at understanding facial expressions and face recognition. I actually took two online tests on the two issues recently.
Do you know these tests:
Facial expression test (average score is between 22 and 30; I scored 21, but there were some words among the answers that I did not know) and
Face recognition test (average is at 80%, below 65% you suffer from prosopagnosia / face blindness; I scored 79% (57 out of 72 faces correct))
But you can train understanding facial expression: Do you know this website: Training mind readingIt was

Thanks for pointing me to justMax's posts. Very interesting. At least it's not just me know 'geeks out' (as he puts it) to anyone who will listen. He seems like a really clever chap, knows way more than I ever will about physics. Physics is more of a secondary interest for me (I'm facinated by it but lack the founation knowledge to really get to grips with it - so much I want to learn but so little time to learn with). It tend to 'geek' primaraly about (in order of preference):

-design, the web, technolgy (web 3.0, cloud computing... I can talk four hours on the future of the web (and digital technology in general) human computer interaction etc...)

-language (Russian, polish, French) I have a habbit of telling people what they have just said in Russian - must be annoying;)

-history (ussr, cold war, ww2)

-exitestensialist literature (satre, Camus, Kafka...) some of satre's explanations of extistentialist 'panic attacks' could almost be seen as insight to the AS mind (well to me anyway don't quote me on that!: being surrounded by too much supurflous 'existsnce' seeing the senoru world around you as too much, absurd even his novel 'le nausae' is a good example

-science, physics (facinated by the lhc)

Will check out those facial rec tests tomorrow and let you know my results.

Read on a different thread about some peoples (apparently strange) food issues: having to eat all of one item before moving onto the next and not letting different items of the plate touch each other. I do both of the above. Never thought of it as 'syptomatic' ad such, just an odd quirk of mine. Seems like a lit of AS people share a 'library of quirks'.

My wife is due to go into labour anytime soon (our second baby:)) so I may be of line for a bit. Do keep intouch though, this is self discovery I guess, good to have people to share it with.

Once again - spelling - terrible - sorry. Bloody iPhone. It's spell checker 'corrects' mis-spelled words into different words entirly!

BTW good luck with you Mensa test. It seemed a lit easier than some of the online ones around. So if you made the top 2% on an online test you may find you get a higher scone on the Mensa one;) I tried 3 different iPhone ap IQ tests first and scored slightly better on the Mensa test.

@ Inuit:

I have an 'on topic' question:
How can you (or anyone) be dyslectic and have language ability?

Speaking of dyslexia, did you see this topic (also by justMax):
Dyslexia friendly numerals

I'm curious about how you do / did on the understanding facial expression and face recognition tests.

If you like taking tests, here's another two interesting tests, to find out your EQ (empathising qotient) and SQ (systemising quotient):
EQ SQ tests (Baron-Cohen et al., 2003).
ASD people usually score low EQ and high to extremely high SQ.
I scored EQ 40 (average) and SQ 104 (extremely high) Extreme Systemising brain

I always like explaining about the research I do and did and the experiments I did. So I'm always happy when someone asks me what psychophysics is or what research I do and I'm happy when I notice that they understand what I'm saying. I've also been told that I'm good at explaining.

And I like talking to people from other countries, about languages and differences between countries, and just meeting other people, especially colleagues, and fellow ASD people here on WP

And I like talking about science, and new findings.

And I like talking to colleagues, about research, experiments, implementing experiments and processing and analysing data using Matlab (a numerical computing environment and fourth generation programming language for matrix manipulation, functions and data plotting, algorithm implementation, user interface creation and interfacing with programs in other languages; I like programming in Matlab ).

I never initiate conversations with people I don't know. But once I know someone better and like them, I can also be quite chatty and sometimes talk almost endlessly.

Concerning Intelligence tests:
It depends which test you take. There are many IQ tests available online, but most are invalid or unreliable. On the (valid and reliable) test I took, I scored IQ 128, in a range of 124 to 133, but I might on a different test also score 133 to 148. It was a Dutch standardised test, and as Dutch people score high on IQ tests (for IQ levels per country, see National IQs, this score is lower than I would score on an internationally standardised test. Also IQ levels were rising in time, but now they seem to be falling again. So it depends how and when they standardised the test. I don't know how and when the Mensa test was standardised and what they'll test. On the test I took I scored highest for numerical (16 out of 16 correct), then verbal (9 out of 10 correct), spatial (7 out of 8 correct) and then logic (6 out of 10 correct). Then I took the online Mensa home test, and it said I'll probably be at the top 2%. So I'm curious about the Mensa test. I hope to receive an invitation soon, I'm still waiting for it.

Do you know these tests:
G Test
Eureka
They are from the Pi Society.

I could read by the age of 5 (before I 'learned' to read at school), and did comprehend what I read. I still have a tape recording of me reading at 5, sounds funny When doing maths, I always came to the correct answers, but the teacher didn't understand how I did the calculations, and I couldn't explain how I did it. At the age of 10 they placed me in a combination class, because I did well. I never had learning problems. But at school and university and work I always needed more time to finish my work compared to other people. And I remember at school each year after summer holidays it took me a few months to get used to learning and lessons again, but after the first few months I improved quickly. And social events always tire me, and I also always need a lot of sleep.

Well, I think that was enough about me, hope I didn't bore you

Good luck for your wife and you and your baby!
Last september my sister and her husband in England got their first baby (girl), I visited them, she was cute, sleeping on my lap for four hours!

Last edited by Scientist on 05 Dec 2009, 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Oh dear, just wrote a really long post the lost it all:(:(

will write tomorrow unless baby comes!

Facial test: 51% indicative of problem
expression: 14 - better than expected but still low

dyslexia: I think it is because I visualy memorise the shape of words. I think this works even better for non roman scripts.

I wrote a long peace (before I lost it) about something I read that may be in your field: was about a 'pre processor' part of the brain that makes decisions for you (without you being concious of it). was very interesting Will write more about it later

also wrote a lot about an exciting thing I'm doing at work that could change the world of online finance (sounds dull but it's not) very 'semantic web' maybe tars why I lost the post - shouldn't be giving company secrets away;)

спокойной ночи мне хочется спать

OK, I'll wait
Hope you won't lose your text again.

I still don't understand about being dyslectic and language ability...
I'll see if I can find anything about it on the web, I'd like to know how it really works (like I always like to know how everything really works ).

Found this:

Shovman, M.M., & Ahissar, M. (2006). Isolating the impact of visual perception on dyslexics' reading ability. Vision Research, 46 (20), 3514-3525.

A large body of data suggests that phonological deficits play an important causal role in dyslexics' reading difficulties. The functional role of visual impairments is still highly debated. Many recent studies have shown clear visual deficits in large subgroups of dyslexics. However, the relationship between these deficits and visual routines required for reading is not clear. To assess the direct contribution of visual factors to dyslexics' slower and less accurate reading, we composed a task that was similar to single word reading in its basic visual characteristics, but had none of the other (phonological, morphological, semantic, etc.) aspects of reading. Young adult dyslexics, with average or above general cognitive abilities, and controls matched for age and cognitive skills participated in the study. We measured both SOA and contrast thresholds for identifying unfamiliar letters. Letters were chosen from an alphabet graphically similar to Hebrew and English (a subset of Georgian letters), but unfamiliar to the subjects. Effects of decreasing letter size, increasing letter crowding (by adding a flanker letter on each side) and adding white noise, were measured. Dyslexics performed as well as controls under all test conditions, and had similar effect sizes. We thus conclude that, despite the data showing that dyslexics have marked difficulties with single word reading, the cause of these difficulties is not a visual processing deficit.

But what exactly are your or others' dyslexia problems then?

What does the Russian text mean?

You have got me thinking (dyslexia). I was never properly diagnosed with it. Just told it was likely from my school (a very poor school system - I talked about it in an early post). I had lots of other problems brehavior, speech (I was excellent at consuming information/knowledge) but rubbish at communicating. I still am. (unless it's a special interest, even then I still get jumbled up.

The thing is though, that I was well above my Reading age as a child, however my speach (though very articulate) was very jumbled. And by writting (both in terms of handwritting and spelling) was even worse. I just accepted what I was told dyslexia. I am begining to wonder if it's just part of AS and I'm not dyslexic at all. Will hopefully find out more at my assesment.

We're are noticing some possible signs in our son (2 year 10 months old). He is teaching himself how to read. He spells out correctly every word he sees. He also is very particular about routine (he gets upset if I drink out if a different cup or if my wife is sitting in my seat. All his toys have to be put away correctly etc.

I think my dad may have had AS to. He talked very little (to the point that I hardly new him) and spent every spare minute he had collecting and building short wave radio (a tech geek of his generation:)

I have lots I'd like to talk about and I'd love to here more about you interests and field of work.I'll have to keep thus short for now though (which us hard for me to do). My wides waters have just broke (I'm typing this on my iPhone, on the bud to the hospital). I'll let you know what we have (boy/girl)

I'll get back intouch properly in a week.

You can still tell me more about pyschophysics if you want though. I love learning about everything (well interesting things I mean).

The Russian text said: good night, I need sleep - I was very tired after losing my very long and interesting post:(

You have got me thinking (dyslexia). I was never properly diagnosed with it. Just told it was likely from my school (a very poor school system - I talked about it in an early post). I had lots of other problems brehavior, speech (I was excellent at consuming information/knowledge) but rubbish at communicating. I still am. (unless it's a special interest, even then I still get jumbled up.

The thing is though, that I was well above my Reading age as a child, however my speach (though very articulate) was very jumbled. And by writting (both in terms of handwritting and spelling) was even worse. I just accepted what I was told dyslexia. I am begining to wonder if it's just part of AS and I'm not dyslexic at all. Will hopefully find out more at my assesment.

We're are noticing some possible signs in our son (2 year 10 months old). He is teaching himself how to read. He spells out correctly every word he sees. He also is very particular about routine (he gets upset if I drink out if a different cup or if my wife is sitting in my seat. All his toys have to be put away correctly etc.

I think my dad may have had AS to. He talked very little (to the point that I hardly new him) and spent every spare minute he had collecting and building short wave radio (a tech geek of his generation:)

I have lots I'd like to talk about and I'd love to here more about you interests and field of work.I'll have to keep thus short for now though (which us hard for me to do). My wides waters have just broke (I'm typing this on my iPhone, on the bud to the hospital). I'll let you know what we have (boy/girl)

I'll get back intouch properly in a week.

You can still tell me more about pyschophysics if you want though. I love learning about everything (well interesting things I mean).

The Russian text said: good night, I need sleep - I was very tired after losing my very long and interesting post:(

@ Inuit:

Interesting post again

Me and my mother think my dad might also have ASS. We think that, because he is very rigid, always does the same things in the same way, like rituals, he's compulsive, always placing things on the table according to the same pattern, when anything unpredicted happens, he gets annoyed or confused, he sometimes says or does things that show no empathy, I think he is the active-but-odd type regarding social contact, he can't really communicate, ... But his case is a complex one, because he also has PTSD diagnosed, and symptoms overlap, and he might also be depressed.

I think psychiatrists and psychologists have a difficult job diagnosing mental disorders.

I'll be interested in your diagnosis concerning ASS, and dyslexia, once you got evaluated by a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Oh, my sister called me, told her I met someone from Newcastle, she said she had had 3 different addresses in Newcastle, all in Heaton.

If you'd like to know things about psychology / psychophysics / my research, just ask me what you'd like to know, then I'll explain

Good luck regarding the delivery!

P.S. Just found this, might be interesting for you: Adult Dyslexia Test - Dyslexia UK
and this: Symptoms of Dyslexia
and this: Dyslexia and learning a foreign language
and this: The National Autistic Society - Hyperlexia

Hi,

you may have heard of this site: http://www.ted.com

some really interesting talks... on all aspects of science, economics, politics, culture etc.

These may be of interest to you:
http://www.ted.com/themes/how_the_mind_works.html

No, never heard of it, thanks!

I have a natural ability to learn languages. I learned Spanish 30 years ago and I'm fluent, and I just started studying Romanian in April of 09 and I am able to communicate at this point, though my standards for actually saying I'm "fluent' are higher than that. Whoever said that one can't learn a new language after a certain age was full of it...I'm in my 40s and I have a lifelong goal of being *really* fluent in five languages.

~Kate

I tend to pick up languages fairly quickly, especially being able to read them. Languages have always been a special interest of mine, particularly the technical and systemic aspects of them. Whenever I travel to a new place, I always learn some of the language and put it to use straight away. I understand your difficulty with dyslexia, as I have the opposite problem for language learning - auditory processing disorder. I can't learn pronunciation just by hearing something - I need to first master the language's phonics by reading about how to make the sounds (IPO phonetic spelling, for example), then see the bit I am learning written.

I am strangely drawn to languages with non-Latin scripts, and have learned a fair amount of Serbian in addition to Spanish, French and bits of German, Korean and Japanese. Also, given my fascination with the far north, I have actually learned a (very tiny) bit of Inuktitut - everyone should have at least one agglomerative language in their portfolio (and it will come in handy whan my daughter and I visit Nunavut). I would like to attain fluency in most of these languages, but knowing my limitations in understanding speech I will settle for conversant.

Inuit and Scientist, I have enjoyed "listening in" on your exchange in this thread.

That's nice

I just thought of something, of which melissa17b's post reminded me.
Whenever I hear someone say a word that I don't know (in any language), I always need to understand, so I always need to know how it is spelled in order to understand and be able to use the word, so I always ask them if they can spell it. I noticed that some time ago, that I always do that and that I never noticed anyone else doing that, and I think it is related to my AS. I also wonder when I'm asking them to spell it if they find that annoying, I don't know, but I ask anyway, because I need to know
I don't know if other people (/ aspies) have this too?