Where does out and out lying play into Asperger's?

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I share your obsessions; in fact nothing that I have read nor seminars attended, nor thinking or chatting has made a dent in anything. I might be quite dense, which makes matters worse.

Maybe Uta Frith needs more work with her English? Oh, don't ask why!! !

Me too, Jetson.

Thankfully, it has died down a little bit after I was able to do my paper on the Theory of Mind last semester. But it is still going strong. I think my Evangelion "obsession" has come to the fore at the moment, though.

I have Aspergers and yea i lye when i was young cause of the asperger they think but iit keeps getting worse as i got older i lye more often and i lye less now

The only times I ever lie is when the lie benefits me and hurts no one else. Or maybe immediately benefits me and maybe hurts me some in the long run. This I logically find no problem in.

My lying ability varies. At times I can lie very well and seem sincere as I am not questioned. Other times, if the person keeps staring at me, I break out into laughter and smiles. And by then, it is useless and they understand I am lying. Especially if they are looking at me and smiling.

And then I just look like a fool.

Though sometimes that is confusing because when I tell the truth and, for instance, my mother questions me perhaps because it sounds too outrageous to be believed for some reason, and by the third "Are you sure you're not lying?" I break into a smile anyways because it is funny that it is true and she doesn't believe me. Which prolongs the "Are you sure"s even longer.

Some days I can do it, some days I just can't.

Having once been a child with AS, I can give you an insight why your child has been lying about homework.

When I was in school, my parents were *very* strict about grades. They would take away my TV priveleges (which was on the few ways to relax that I knew) for up to a week whenever I got anything lower than a B. As a result, I became extremely anxious about getting grades. If I saw a C on a report card, I'd be scared to death of showing it. This way, my own smartness became a liability, rather than as asset.

As a result, I became an amazingly good liar (which I wasn't when I was younger). Since aspies are good at logic and memorization, I devised many tactics to avoid showing an offending report card. A few of them actually worked. The strictness on grades phased out in high school, but my skills in lying remained, and still serve me well in many ways.

The moral is this: please do not be too strict about grades/homework. You will not achieve anything other than making good grades an end in itself. I remember caring *only* about having that A or B on the report card, rather than doing my best. With all the grade inflation going on, this would not be a good thing.

We would be happy if our child would just do the work; not asking for A's or making demands that cannot be met.

Teachers, generally are not uncaring creatures by nature. Although I wouldn't want to have been one, I know I only hurt myself by not doing my best.

As for my son, he is expected, by age 15, when if he gets an assignment, to simply do it as best way he can. If he needs help, he needs to communicate this to us and we would be more than happy to comply. He seems to enjoy trying to "con" either us or his teachers.

What has happened is that grade school for him was so easy that by middle and now high school, when he has to put forth effort, it becomes overwhelming, when it really isn't. He is just a little bit lazy but he needs to know that some things in life aren't a "let's make a deal situation", that it just has to be done.

I myself, was let off easy, having been the younger sister of an overachieving scholar/athlete brother (you know, the kind ya can't stand) and I know that if more were demanded of me, I may have had a lot more incentive to do much better. That was then, this is now. Except for math, I was capable of getting straight A's, if I'd applied myself.

Being a secretary most of my life is not a shame; but that I always knew I could do more, that was the shame of it. Who knows, Monday morning quarterbacking is a very inaccurate science, and I may just have become more of a rebel than I already was.

In any event, I hope that my own parents disinterest has not turned me into a zealot over homework and I try to keep myself in check. However, when I hear it from teachers about this that and the other thing, I make it clear that even Mr. Aspie has to learn to do what is asked of him. He is high functioning and as such, we expect him to do his best, and not slack off, make excuses Asperger or any other excuse.

As for homework journals, he refuses to write in them; as for any suggestions given; he has found ways to confound all of them, thus, we are left with communication with all teachers.

He is loved unconditionally, in any event; overjoyed to learn that a certain species of woodpecker was found not to be extinct.......he is in his own way, "our renaissance man".

We have told him just today, his history teacher wants him to re write something and that history is mostly essay type work in college, (I have 33 college credits) and that he should write the way he talks and talk he way he writes!! !! ! LOL

Wouldn't it merely be better to assume he is going to lie about his homework and to simply require that he show you it is done? Maybe even interacting with him and helping him with papers and such. And make this a requirement: If he is going to lie about his work, then this is the way it has to be. Once he stops lying, you can say you won't have to be as strict. You can show him that he is in a sense putting these restrictions on himself. Just take "lying" out of the equation and try appealing to his sense of logic.

Lying + no homework = restrictions

If you do this, he will no doubt be angry at first I should think. But keep putting the emphasis on that he is only doing this to himself. No guilt trips needed in your direction

Last edited by Sophist on 01 May 2005, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Indeed, anger, terrible meltdowns and hissy fits are his way to keep us at a distance from anything he deems his own realm.

That we are his parents who want to help him and not take over, is a sometimes a hard things. Boundaries are very important to everyone, believe me, I know this, having a vicarious parent makes me very intuitive to this type of problem.

He wants to write the rules, be the jury, judge and executioner. This is not how life on this planet unfortunately operates!

Yes, that does seem hard. But him not allowing you to encroach on any of his preset boundaries, in actuality he is crossing yours. Because you are both the parents and he is your son. I hated that my mother often crossed over what I considered a boundary (though an often unreasonable one of mine, hehe).

But then again, many times she let me make my own mistakes, too. Has he any desire to attend college? Because the worse his grades are, the slimmer his choices. I was allowed to make this mistake and was forced to attend a community college because of high school grades. Now that I have rebounded from those at last, I am attending a good university. But I did not relish the time wasted. I will be over 30 by the time I finish grad school.

You probably already know that aspies tend to consider everyone else their equal. Would it work to simply sit down with him (sometime when he's already calm and laid back, not stressed, and not at a time when he's already irritated) and say in a very matter of fact way: "Look, homework is a problem. What do you suggest as a solution so that it *will* be done?"

By all means, he should _not_ get away with pitching a fit merely because he's aspie. He certainly isn't going to get any special treatment anywhere else when he grows up. Like I said, with my son, he has to prove he did his homework before he gets to do anything at all. Sometimes he does throw a tantrum, this is very ineffective for him if I refuse to stay around and listen to it.

Meh. I have never lied properly about anything........

White lies occasionally.

But this comes more from 2 things. 1: I am determined to do well no matter what....... and 2: you never need to lie if you learn to only tell enough of the truth to matter.......

For example, when i was younger, my mum would ask me "Have you done your homework?" and I would reply "Yes." this was not totally true, as i had only done some of it, but it wasnt all a lie either, because she never specified which peice of homework.

BlackLiger,

I did that when I was 16. I wanted to ride my bike to Niagara Falls (I lived in Buffalo at the time) and told my mother I was doing so. I neglected to mention however which side of the international border I planned to ride my bike on (went over to Canada and rode my bike on that side).

I can't lie, but I understand how too.

I think the reason I can't lie is not so much because of my Asperger's but because of my O.C.D. one of my compulsions is to confess to stuff - even things that other people would not think are bad - If I don't it makes my other compulsions worse, and I get really stressed.

So if I did lie, I would confess with it after a few minutes, which destroys the point. I did try this a few times when I was about 6, of course I just made me feel awful, even after I confessed.

I am also VERY specific about rules, I consider it "bad" so I would get dis-proportionatly guilty about even a "white" lie.

The real problem is when I accidently lie (AKA I get something wrong, or am confused at the time so believe it to be true at that point). I get really worked up, and I have been known to hit myself as punishment for this.

About the homework, anything that isn't a perseveration is very hard to keep an interest in. When you have a perseveration, everything gets shunted into the background. Then, there is the different learning styles people can have. Is not doing his homework greatly affecting his grades? Is he still passing well enough without doing it, or is he failing miserably? Homework is not the only way to learn.

As a student currently avoiding doing her homework, I can tell you that I will do anything to avoid it. I'm currently hiding a report card from my parents so they won't take away my computer. You see, the homework, even done on the computer, cuts into MY computer time. I want to be on my computer. I live in front of it.

I fail to see the point in doing my homeowrk, since it merely means regurgitating what I learned today. I fail to see how that helps me. Of course, then I get my report card and am failing, but at the time, it doesn't seem to matter to me.

Perhaps this is in some way related to what your son feels?

I hear ya.

I used to be a horrible liar, which resulted me in always getting caught. But years and years of "negative reinforcement" made me a very good liar, which really comes in handy.

Basically, the cause of punishmen is *not* bad behavior, but getting caught. If I knew how to delay the punishment until I came up with a good excuse or avoid it entirely, all the better. It's kind of like a speeding motorist who has to slam on the brakes when he/she sees a cop behind. The more you get caught, the more you learn to adjust your behavior not to get caught next time.

Perhaps your son feels like that motorist?