Can someone explain non binary to me?

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Reminds me of Gozer from Ghostbusters.

Winston: "I thought Gozer was a man!" (In response to Gozers androgynous form).

Ray: "It's Gozer! It's whatever it wants to be!"

A good example is Jim Sinclair (yes, that Jim Sinclair). In their case, they had exploratory surgery done (with their permission) and found that they do not have parts of either gender on the inside.

The only issue I have is getting the They/Them/Their pronouns correct (which is my problem) because I was always taught that those pronouns were for plural.

Question to the NBs here is do you have the public restroom issues that trans people do.

There is probably a good chance that you already use they/them to refer to singular people when you are unsure of what gender they are. If you had a piece of cake in the fridge, and someone ate it that could be male or female, you could refer to that unknown cake bandit as mean because "they ate it before you". Or, if a person was walking around under a sheet and their build gave no clue if they were a man or a woman, not knowing you might use singular they, Just pretend enbies are wearing a sheet that you can't tell masculine of feminine traits. Hopefully not Michael Myers.

Honestly I have tripped myself up too, and I think that it can be a quick way maybe suddenly verbalise that you were seeing someone non-binary as a binary gender, which can be rather difficult to feel like you are being faced to police your own thoughts. The habit can be weird still because that singular they was still something you maybe used when you totally didn't know enough about a person to know a gender, and it can take some reworking of your mind when you have been told a gender (non-binary).




I won't say that I have not realised that I have no discomfort, but I am still close enough to my assigned gender to not be too much of a problem. You are probably going to find it a case by case thing.

Also, although to my knowledge it can differ from person to person to whether they will call themselves trans, as to maybe feel like they might fit alongside binary trans people in their struggles, since an enby might be more likely to not need to do things like certain medical interventions or flip their gender presentation from their assigned one. I think it is more true that non-binary people are not cis-gendered, so kind of by default it does make them trans, unless there is another one I am not sure of. Cis meaning “on the same side as”, and trans means "across from".

My point is that non-binary is still kind of under the T in LGBT, with trans as an umbrella, even if some non-binary people might not feel comfortable being called as to denote assumed struggles of most trans people, but probably not just assume that NBs and trans are two different groups. Maybe instead being non-binary and binary trans.

I’m not quite sure you get trans people - or perhaps your description is just oversimplified?

They’re born trans, meaning their gender identity doesn’t match their genitalia. They are fully conscious of who they are, and often opt to have medical procedures done to have their bodies match their conscious awareness - not to “become the other.”

I use men's rooms or family bathrooms, although no one would ever question that.

I get that, but say a mtf trans person is still born biologically male with an XY sex chromosome makeup.

When you say "biologically," do you mean physical form? Very sure that our consciousness is every bit a part of life-science - if not more so aligned with what life is than the physical body.

By biologically I mean XY is male and XX is female. As in hormones, reproductive organs, etc. As in what's on your birth certificate. Not the sex you identify with in your mind.

My understanding is that most trans people are heterosexual relative to the sex they identify as. For example, mtf trans people are usually attracted to men, and ftm trans people are usually attracted to women. Given this I'm not sure why they belong under the gay umbrella.

I'm not sure what the split is. It's been my experience that most trans people I've met are bi or gay - but then again, most of them I've met via gay circles. Also, with many trans people that pass very well, I may have met many trans people and didn't know it.

Trans people definitely belong under the LGBT umbrella, even if they're often ignored, left out etc - the T in lgbt is not silent. (It's not for tomato, either.) They're on the receiving end of much of the same discrimination from society at large - if not more. The gay rights movement in the USA that began at the Stonewall riots in 1969 was started by a trans woman of colour, Marsha P. Johnson. North American gays owe our human rights movement to a black trans woman with balls of steel - and in turn, we owe our solidarity & protection to our trans brothers and sisters. Any separation of trans rights from lgbt rights would only serve to harm the trans community by segregating them further in order to ignore them, IMO.

Thank you that was very informative.

An aside, I don't much care for the new pride flag. It's trying to cover everybody but the result looks like an ugly mess. I'd just go with the rainbow flag. It's attractive and mmediately recognized.

This is the typical one:



This is the new Progress Pride flag:



At first my thoughts weren't all that different from yours, but, the more I've learned about the issues of trans rights as well as racism within the gay community, the more I tend to agree with the adoption of the Progress flag. Really, truly, the 6 colour flag was intended to cover everyone.. but over decades, it's essentially become the symbol of cis white gay male pride. I don't blame everyone who falls outside of that category, but within the lgbt umbrella, for wanting something better representative of everyone - specifically trans, black and brown folk - groups of people who are typically far more marginalized by society, law enforcement, and even within the lgbt community. It's about time they had proper representation and inclusion vs. mere lip service that amounts to something similar to someone saying "all lives matter," to a blm movement protester seeking equality & equity.

Just thought I would drop in on this just to make a comment about sex being complicated, people can have intersex conditions where they might have traits associated with opposing sexes, and not necessarily the XY and XX chromosome you might expect. And most people can't see chromosomes.

Sex is considered not based on a single thing, but a number of different traits, with such traits that can differ from person to person, which can show a bimodal distribution of sex, since many people might have some sort of trait of the opposite sex. Everyone tends to have different levels of testosterone and estrogen, that is both of them, and not just the one of the sex/gender they were assigned at birth.

Yes I'm aware of intersexed people. Some have both male and female sex organs. It's not the same as a trans person. There are also conditions caused by sex chromosome nondisjunction, such as Kleinfelters syndrome in which the person is XXY. This usually results in a male with many female characteristics. Or Turner's Syndrome, where the person has only a single X chromosome, usually resulting in a sterile masculine female.