whats the difference between aspergers and autism
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
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Location: Long Island, New York
03 Jan 2024, 5:55 pm
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
snip
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
Not quite, there's a bunch of folks that would have been AS or PDD-NOS that no longer are diagnosis, that's why the grandfathering was done. To disenfranchise the not yet diagnosed. There has been an increase in diagnosed, just not evenly across the spectrum.
It was grandfathered in to get the opponents of the change to shut up over the long term it kind of worked. No online petitions going on to bring back Aspergers anymore.
With any change be it policy, law, or diagnostic criteria a vast vast majority of the time somebody or some group is going to get f****d. You can’t always judge things as a success only if it is 100 percent successful or visa versa. If you read the comments quoted in the old article I posted those people had not accepted the concept of “mild” or “high functioning” autistics. To them people in that category were socially awkward people who needed to toughen up and get a life. They probably thought that if they took away the Aspergers “excuse” people would toughen up or whatever.
Just because they failed does not mean there are not still categories of under diagnosed people. Older adults and women come to mind. Wrong Planet is great. That Wrong Planet is by all intents and purposed the only supports for older demographics is a problem.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
03 Jan 2024, 7:25 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
snip
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
Not quite, there's a bunch of folks that would have been AS or PDD-NOS that no longer are diagnosis, that's why the grandfathering was done. To disenfranchise the not yet diagnosed. There has been an increase in diagnosed, just not evenly across the spectrum.
It was grandfathered in to get the opponents of the change to shut up over the long term it kind of worked. No online petitions going on to bring back Aspergers anymore.
With any change be it policy, law, or diagnostic criteria a vast vast majority of the time somebody or some group is going to get f****d. You can’t always judge things as a success only if it is 100 percent successful or visa versa. If you read the comments quoted in the old article I posted those people had not accepted the concept of “mild” or “high functioning” autistics. To them people in that category were socially awkward people who needed to toughen up and get a life. They probably thought that if they took away the Aspergers “excuse” people would toughen up or whatever.
Just because they failed does not mean there are not still categories of under diagnosed people. Older adults and women come to mind. Wrong Planet is great. That Wrong Planet is by all intents and purposed the only supports for older demographics is a problem.
It's nowhere near 100% though. It's at best 60% still being permitted a diagnoses and roughly 3/4 of aspies being thrown off the spectrum. That's not what I would consider acceptable, it was a cynical attack on the two groups with the least ability to have a say in what happened, those that were too impacted to be properly evaluated and those that were too good at masking to even know that this was impacting us.
Eventually, the change will be reversed because AS was used to refer to something that is likely real and with only about a quarter of the folks that had the diagnosis being entitled to something under the current criteria, there will be a reckoning at some point. I don't expect that they'll use the term Asperger's again, but there will be something that's more or less the same thing with a different name.
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/analy ... ks-debate/
The whole thing is rather disgusting. I'm too lazy to find my other link from more recent times, but the numbers there weren't any better.
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,362
Location: Long Island, New York
03 Jan 2024, 9:33 pm
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
snip
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
Not quite, there's a bunch of folks that would have been AS or PDD-NOS that no longer are diagnosis, that's why the grandfathering was done. To disenfranchise the not yet diagnosed. There has been an increase in diagnosed, just not evenly across the spectrum.
It was grandfathered in to get the opponents of the change to shut up over the long term it kind of worked. No online petitions going on to bring back Aspergers anymore.
With any change be it policy, law, or diagnostic criteria a vast vast majority of the time somebody or some group is going to get f****d. You can’t always judge things as a success only if it is 100 percent successful or visa versa. If you read the comments quoted in the old article I posted those people had not accepted the concept of “mild” or “high functioning” autistics. To them people in that category were socially awkward people who needed to toughen up and get a life. They probably thought that if they took away the Aspergers “excuse” people would toughen up or whatever.
Just because they failed does not mean there are not still categories of under diagnosed people. Older adults and women come to mind. Wrong Planet is great. That Wrong Planet is by all intents and purposed the only supports for older demographics is a problem.
It's nowhere near 100% though. It's at best 60% still being permitted a diagnoses and roughly 3/4 of aspies being thrown off the spectrum. That's not what I would consider acceptable, it was a cynical attack on the two groups with the least ability to have a say in what happened, those that were too impacted to be properly evaluated and those that were too good at masking to even know that this was impacting us.
Eventually, the change will be reversed because AS was used to refer to something that is likely real and with only about a quarter of the folks that had the diagnosis being entitled to something under the current criteria, there will be a reckoning at some point. I don't expect that they'll use the term Asperger's again, but there will be something that's more or less the same thing with a different name.
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/analy ... ks-debate/
The whole thing is rather disgusting. I'm too lazy to find my other link from more recent times, but the numbers there weren't any better.
When you have the time I would like to see the link that says 3/4 of people who received Asperger's diagnosis were thrown off of the spectrum. I have read about small percentage of children “losing” their diagnosis. The grandfather clause prohibits that
I can’t give a percentage but between autistics literally unaware, clinicians missing masking, clinicians saying you have a job or in a relationship, clinicians saying do not define yourself as a label, clinicians saying there is no help for people like you, I am not going to bother giving you a diagnosis, autistics that don’t bother trying for a diagnosis for the same reasons, and autistics who can’t afford a diagnosis amounts to a lot of people not getting a diagnosis in the first place.
The old Asperger diagnosis does remain in the DSM 5 under the name “Autism Spectrum Disorder without accompanying intellectual impairment, without accompanying language impairment”
The Aspergers diagnosis was very useful for many people including yours truly, but we need to move forward not backwords. I hope for the future there are more subcategories and that they are based on predominant traits.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
04 Jan 2024, 3:51 am
ASD is diagnosed on behaviours
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
04 Jan 2024, 2:06 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
snip
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.
That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.
Not quite, there's a bunch of folks that would have been AS or PDD-NOS that no longer are diagnosis, that's why the grandfathering was done. To disenfranchise the not yet diagnosed. There has been an increase in diagnosed, just not evenly across the spectrum.
It was grandfathered in to get the opponents of the change to shut up over the long term it kind of worked. No online petitions going on to bring back Aspergers anymore.
With any change be it policy, law, or diagnostic criteria a vast vast majority of the time somebody or some group is going to get f****d. You can’t always judge things as a success only if it is 100 percent successful or visa versa. If you read the comments quoted in the old article I posted those people had not accepted the concept of “mild” or “high functioning” autistics. To them people in that category were socially awkward people who needed to toughen up and get a life. They probably thought that if they took away the Aspergers “excuse” people would toughen up or whatever.
Just because they failed does not mean there are not still categories of under diagnosed people. Older adults and women come to mind. Wrong Planet is great. That Wrong Planet is by all intents and purposed the only supports for older demographics is a problem.
It's nowhere near 100% though. It's at best 60% still being permitted a diagnoses and roughly 3/4 of aspies being thrown off the spectrum. That's not what I would consider acceptable, it was a cynical attack on the two groups with the least ability to have a say in what happened, those that were too impacted to be properly evaluated and those that were too good at masking to even know that this was impacting us.
Eventually, the change will be reversed because AS was used to refer to something that is likely real and with only about a quarter of the folks that had the diagnosis being entitled to something under the current criteria, there will be a reckoning at some point. I don't expect that they'll use the term Asperger's again, but there will be something that's more or less the same thing with a different name.
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/analy ... ks-debate/
The whole thing is rather disgusting. I'm too lazy to find my other link from more recent times, but the numbers there weren't any better.
When you have the time I would like to see the link that says 3/4 of people who received Asperger's diagnosis were thrown off of the spectrum. I have read about small percentage of children “losing” their diagnosis. The grandfather clause prohibits that
I can’t give a percentage but between autistics literally unaware, clinicians missing masking, clinicians saying you have a job or in a relationship, clinicians saying do not define yourself as a label, clinicians saying there is no help for people like you, I am not going to bother giving you a diagnosis, autistics that don’t bother trying for a diagnosis for the same reasons, and autistics who can’t afford a diagnosis amounts to a lot of people not getting a diagnosis in the first place.
The old Asperger diagnosis does remain in the DSM 5 under the name “Autism Spectrum Disorder without accompanying intellectual impairment, without accompanying language impairment”
The Aspergers diagnosis was very useful for many people including yours truly, but we need to move forward not backwords. I hope for the future there are more subcategories and that they are based on predominant traits.
It's literally in the link. I don't personally consider grandfathering in to the label as still being on the spectrum. These people aren't on the spectrum as currently defined. They could have taken the AS folks, autistic end of the schizoid personality disorder and parts of savant syndrome and wound up with something fair and useful. It's where things will likely wind up eventually anyways.
They chose to remove people from the spectrum unless they were fortunate enough to have an established diagnosis with supports. Do, it's not even enough to have a diagnosis. It was a deliberate excision that fell well short of anything that's scientifically justifiable.
04 Jan 2024, 2:08 pm
carlos55 wrote:
ASD is diagnosed on behaviours
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
This is correct. It's also why I wish there'd be more interest in looking at people's actual experiences as this isn't a disorder that prevents communication in most cases. That's usually more autism.
04 Jan 2024, 2:10 pm
carlos55 wrote:
ASD is diagnosed on behaviours
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
A diagnosis based on behaviour and not on the cause is a rather unscientific way to do it in the first place. Since Autism is diagnosed on behaviours and not on what causes the behaviours there is little evidence that even Autism is one condition. It could be a couple of different conditions causing a spectrum of similiar symtoms and behaviours. For example heart conditions and lung conditions could give almost identical symtoms and behaviours, but are totally different things. These conditions would be very hard to treat if you lumped them together under one diagnosis.
_________________
English is not my first language.
04 Jan 2024, 5:46 pm
BillyTree wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
ASD is diagnosed on behaviours
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
there is a similarity between Asperger’s and Autism that made it too difficult to separate, since functioning levels can be spikey
However there is little biological evidence that they are even the same condition
A diagnosis based on behaviour and not on the cause is a rather unscientific way to do it in the first place. Since Autism is diagnosed on behaviours and not on what causes the behaviours there is little evidence that even Autism is one condition. It could be a couple of different conditions causing a spectrum of similiar symtoms and behaviours. For example heart conditions and lung conditions could give almost identical symtoms and behaviours, but are totally different things. These conditions would be very hard to treat if you lumped them together under one diagnosis.
I once signed up for a class in Psychology. It was mostly a disaster, but one thing I clearly recall is being taught that psychological research is based strictly on observation of behavior. In a particular scenario, abnormal behavior could be caused either by chronic pain or as a result of hearing voices. Apparently, such differences in causation wouldn't matter to a psychologist.
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
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04 Jan 2024, 9:22 pm
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
It's literally in the link. I don't personally consider grandfathering in to the label as still being on the spectrum. These people aren't on the spectrum as currently defined. They could have taken the AS folks, autistic end of the schizoid personality disorder and parts of savant syndrome and wound up with something fair and useful. It's where things will likely wind up eventually anyways.
They chose to remove people from the spectrum unless they were fortunate enough to have an established diagnosis with supports. Do, it's not even enough to have a diagnosis. It was a deliberate excision that fell well short of anything that's scientifically justifiable.
They chose to remove people from the spectrum unless they were fortunate enough to have an established diagnosis with supports. Do, it's not even enough to have a diagnosis. It was a deliberate excision that fell well short of anything that's scientifically justifiable.
Both your linked article and mine were published before Aspergers was removed. They are useless for determining what happened afterwords. My linked article provided evidence they wanted to lesson the amount of diagnosed people based on their feeling that ASD’s were being over-diagnosed. One can not make a determination about how successful they were from those articles.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
09 Jan 2024, 5:44 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
It's literally in the link. I don't personally consider grandfathering in to the label as still being on the spectrum. These people aren't on the spectrum as currently defined. They could have taken the AS folks, autistic end of the schizoid personality disorder and parts of savant syndrome and wound up with something fair and useful. It's where things will likely wind up eventually anyways.
They chose to remove people from the spectrum unless they were fortunate enough to have an established diagnosis with supports. Do, it's not even enough to have a diagnosis. It was a deliberate excision that fell well short of anything that's scientifically justifiable.
They chose to remove people from the spectrum unless they were fortunate enough to have an established diagnosis with supports. Do, it's not even enough to have a diagnosis. It was a deliberate excision that fell well short of anything that's scientifically justifiable.
Both your linked article and mine were published before Aspergers was removed. They are useless for determining what happened afterwords. My linked article provided evidence they wanted to lesson the amount of diagnosed people based on their feeling that ASD’s were being over-diagnosed. One can not make a determination about how successful they were from those articles.
It took me a bit to find the more recent articles. In general, I saw a wide variation in terms of how much overlap there was, but, I think this one is pretty damning even if it demonstrates a slightly different point. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8463351/ It still supports my view that the DSM 5 criteria were absolutely terrible and a significant step backwards. When you go from 2000 combinations that get some sort of diagnosis to only 12, that should really be viewed with significant concern. Especially when you require that the patient have clinically significant impairment in terms of the RRB, so if it's something that's stimming, but not "clinically significant" or only one criteria or not early enough in childhood, then it doesn't count. Or, if it's ascribed to one of the newly created disorders like trichotillomania like I had rather than an RRB that can lead to no diagnosis as well.
I concede that due to my memory, I may have messed it up a bit, but I do expect that over the long term I will be proven right as those earlier research articles do back the point I made and there are potentially a significant minority of people who haven't been evaluated due to the brokenness of the criteria and how hard it can be to get service. Not to mention that even with more DSM 5-friendly articles, it's still absolutely damning that no effort was made to properly resolve the situation, they just put the grandfather bandage on and called it a day.
09 Jan 2024, 10:23 pm
I wish I understand all this. My learning disability can make me feel soooo stupid, I have a VERY HARD TIME understanding things, I’m also a slow learner, I can read the same thing 3 or 4 times to make sense, I can still have trouble, reading tooooo much can hurt my head & can become overload with information. Alot of people here seems smarter than me.
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