Was I 2E? Or was I given a false "gifted" label in school?

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Funny you bring that up, honestly it's very hard for me to do that, im starting to notice that i tend to assume that people know things that i know, automatically, and it sometimes takes me weeks to realize that I assumed that. I probably would've never noticed had I not done research on Theory of Mind (one of my low functioning areas). Major cause of miscommunication between me and others and it's caused me to flip out multiple times. I should probably get therapy for that or else my mental health will continue going down the drain like it has for my entire life, while i continue to get into fights with people and make things miserable

But anyways what part was that replying to? I'm confused

I really want to believe that the label has no meaning anymore, but to this day I somehow make people misjudge my abilities without realizing it. Also, I can't accept the notion that ranking tests are completely subjective, it helped validate my lifelong struggles, but I can agree to disagree.

As for the rest you're right. I should probably get therapy in the near future so that im not affected by such little details, but after my last therapist stopped seeing me I haven't been able to find another available one that has the criteria that im looking for in their qualifications

Hey I was in a rush earlier so I just got a chance to read your whole post. When I said "gifted" program it wasn't even IQ based, it was based on standardized test scores measuring reading and math proficiency. It wasn't called "gifted" program either it was called "enrichment", for kids who were ahead. Maybe I used the wrong terminology?

Also, may I ask a question? Was your child high in VCI/PRI but low in WMI/PSI? That's what I originally read was 2E so thats why I wasn't sure if I should ask a 2E forum how they deal with some of the experiences I've had, as my strength isn't exactly a typical "2E" strength (from what I read online, if anything high working memory with average to low in everything else is typically associated with the "prodigies" and the "savants", but I don't think I meet the criteria for those search terms)

Last edited by J.J. on 02 Aug 2024, 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey, sorry to bother you again. I did edit my other comment replying to this since I was in a rush and realized I didn't fully answer your question about masking.

Anyways I got a chance to read this fully, and one of your points clicked. Maybe my lead at work was trying to hype me up for other people.

I remember one time when I was working the mail machine. And the screen had something in this format


Label of error ............... number
Label of error ............... number
Label of error ............... number

and keep going for about 36 more rows (pretend the dots were a giant space)


Well, one time there was an error I was trying to point out to the lead. I was saying it was error t, but since the leads eyes are bad, he tried to drag his finger across the screen from the label name to the number, and said it was error u. We were disagreeing as i could see his finger move slightly diagonal, so what I did was counted from the top of the screen to label t, and then counted the same amount of times on the right side of the screen. After he realized what I'd done, he said "You are one smart f****r" and proceeded to brag about it to the backup lead. However, I was confused, as I literally used kindergarten logic to demonstrate why he was wrong. Was that an example of someone hyping me up for others, as you mentioned?


Also, I have another question. Verbal Comprehension Index and Working Memory Index make up VIQ, while Perceptual Reasoning Index and Processing Speed Index make up PIQ. My VIQ is technically higher, but only because of working memory. I thought verbal Comprehension was associated with appearing more intelligent than one actually is. Was I wrong? Does it not matter whether it's verbal Comprehension or working memory being the high one? My Verbal Comprehension was actually lower than perceptual reasoning so I doubt that would have anything to do with it. I also speak in a very odd pattern, and tend to lose words, trip over words, and speak very fast in a monotone voice.

Hi JJ. I'm glad you're here.

You're the same age as I was when I dropped out of the elite university I had been pushed into, and drifted into mental illness and alcoholism.

I'd like to see the end of the label 'gifted', and all that goes with it. No child should ever be denied the right to a normal childhood.

I brought it up an explanation why folks are so tough on gifted people. Your post is a perfect example of what most gifted people do to normal people.

Not me. I'll listen to people. I'll guess their ability to comprehend what I'm saying. Kids love talking to me because I make the effort to make what I say understandable to them. Not too hard and not too easy. Common words, better enunciation, and appropriate pauses for the youngest kids.

I've also learned to say what folks want to hear. I can calculate how much stuff costs with sales tax included.
Nobody wants to know that. Makes them feel stupid. No need to answer the question if someone asks a bad question!
Or just go ahead and tell them what they need to know, not the answer to the question they asked.

Being gifted allows me to figure out the question they should have asked, not the one they actually asked, and allow me to teach or mentor someone about something I haven't though of for years. I've taught math that I hadn't touched in decades.

I can touch type very fast. I can also touch type while talking to someone. Which means that if I'm not careful, I can go way too fast for someone to be able to comprehend what I'm trying to teach them Which is a common complaint I've heard. Experts fail to slow down when explaining things.


Someone who is gifted may be able to use special social training on how to interact with normal people.

Yeah I've read giftedness does tend to compensate for social deficits in autism (if thats what you're talking about with the last sentence). However I'm sure the extent of "giftedness", along with personality and their specific pattern of symptoms matters too though. For instance, regardless of what the subjective threshold for "giftedness" is, there's still going to be a world of difference between someone who has a full scale IQ of 140 who's an extrovert and has a wide range of curiosity, and someone who might have a full scale IQ of like 100, with maybe a 130 WMI, who's an extreme introvert with restrictive interests and hyperfixations alongside their social deficits.

Also there's one other thing I didnt mention, there's one section of memory where i actually did score bad, it's called "story memory", for me that was one of the 2nd percentile areas. The psychologist (and also what I researched later) said it's not uncommon in autism for one type of memory to be very high and another form of memory to be in the disability range, whereas extreme discrepancies like that almost never happens in neurotypicals. So my particular form of "good memory" that helped me on tests probably isnt going to be very good at remembering details of random social situations i experienced. Even memories from when I was very young were all abstract facts, i dont remember details of specific interactions, or reliving any interactions, even the most recent ones. Upon further research it seems that I lack episodic memory. Someone with autism who happens to be better at that form of memory would have an advantage I'd imagine, as they'd just be able to relive past interactions in detail, whereas I might just remember the information i was taught out of context.

Edit: wait i think I miscomprehended. If you're trying to say that I'm probably explaining things too fast then that's not the reason why i struggle to communicate with people, i actually struggle to put my thoughts in words so im literally the opposite of that if anything, as what I say often clutters together and makes no sense unless i scripted the conversation for hours beforehand. What i meant by what I said, is usually things related to one of my obsessions (things that I can get very sensitive about if someone disagrees with me on something related to it), and also this happens online, as in real life i dont process speech fast enough to really get into debates about whatever is said, so speed isnt an issue there. I dont think we're thinking of the same thing. My comprehension is actually probably on the low side if anything, and i struggle to understand/communicate with gifted people too, Im only "gifted", if anything, in that I learn information fast, and am good with numbers, patterns and details, thats basically where my above average/superior/gifted abilities were. Not comprehension of the more abstract concepts, I actually struggle to understand subjects like philosophy, and didnt even understand basic politics (like for instance i didnt have a grasp on what "left wing" or "right wing" referred to) until my late teen years. So we might not have the same "giftedness"

As far as what i was talking about in my original post, scroll up three comments above this one, and you'll see an example of a type of reasoning that I used that got me called "smart af". There's no explaining at all, literally just pointing on a screen. I get upset that stuff like that gives me a label because it's so basic and concrete that a kindergartener could probably use that logic. I spent way too long explaining, time for me to touch grass now.

Last edited by J.J. on 02 Aug 2024, 7:38 am, edited 8 times in total.

I dont know about a complete end, as there are a very small subset of kids who are genuinely ahead in all areas that would benefit from a "gifted" label (provided that those kids are taught a solid work ethic at a young age), but it seems like that label is way overused, and should not be used on mentally disabled people at all; almost all of us will have weak areas that get neglected by us getting assigned "gifted", and given how vague "gifted" is based on the other replies, im willing to bet that half the time the "giftedness" has to do with splinter skills/obsessions instead of an overall high potential in a given area. I wonder if the trauma from that label is why I'm so obsessive-compulsive about people calling me smart, i actually get pissed off when people do probably because it reminds me of my childhood and how often my needs were ignored because i was "soooooooo smart".

I've noticed that 20 seems to be a very common age for mental health issues to peak.

I see the label as a double-edged sword. In the right conditions, it can help the student in growing their talents by having advanced classes to learn with. That can be a good thing as long as the expectations are not set too high by parents/teachers. But, the cost of this is more stress on your body. The other part is that it can also get used against you in the wrong places by those who are not in that label. Human jealousy can rear it’s head. It really sucks when you have to hide your true abilities from others. You never really get to fully compete in life. I have had to experience both growing up, even in my college years.

In some ways, it is better to have a “normal” childhood. You do not have the stress of the first part, nor the spite of others aimed at you on the second part. My experiences during that era in my life greatly influences my distrust of humanity now.

My mom was different. She gave me free time to figure stuff out on my own.
My brother, on the other hand, went through a "normal" childhood with participation in the Boy Scouts and Aikido classes. Mom knew I didn't need any more self defense training, unlike my brother.

Here's the conclusion I came to. I definitely think the parents at least need to be interviewed before they put the kid in advanced classes. If the kid is "gifted" because they have tiger parents who non-stop forced them to do hours of work every day for years, then they need to take into consideration that their "gifted" is less stuff that they figured out on their own and more just because of parents, and not expect the kid to be able to continue accelerating at the same rate they did earlier, as the parents could easily become less strict as the child ages, keeping in mind that the child could "normal out" later on. Meanwhile if the child figured out how to do everything on their own then they should get a different education plan from one who didnt as they'll be more likely to continue to accelerate as they get older (obviously not considering mental health conditions). Also they should do way more than just "reading" and "math" level based on a computerized test, and should also be assessing a wider range of skills (i know that some "gifted" programs do a full comprehensive psychological assessment including an IQ test, but mine wasnt and was just based on how well one could read and do math, literally two tests).

This is what I wished happened in my school, that probably wouldve caused them to realize that I'm not ahead in all skills, and had they done that I'm sure they wouldve realized that the only "gifted" program that I shouldve been placed in during elementary school, was math. At least then teachers wouldn't be getting me in trouble when I struggled so much with things such as the more abstract aspects of reading comprehension, and organization. Kids who are behind oftentimes have an IEP (Individualized Education Plan), why can't it be the same for those who are ahead???

My wife said that I was unusual in that I continue to learn and build upon what I've learned in the past.
I have machine shop equipment that I can turn on and use even though it has been twenty years since I did that particular machining operation. Most of the time is spent locating all the bits and pieces needed to do stuff rather than the actual doing itself! Though that may help me give me time to remember what I did way back when?

She taught me everything she knew about cooking when I was fifty. Then I went one step further and figured out how to cook whatever she wanted to eat but didn't know how to cook. I can now multitask and cook several things at the same time and have them all ready to eat at the same time.

After learning to cook I learned how to play golf. My father introduced me to the game and taught me the rules. As well as the social rules of the game. But my swing was awful, so started from the begining and learned how to swing a golf club all over again. It took a couple years but now I pretty much know as much as the advanced players who play the game. I can modify my own golf clubs!

It seems like the term your wife is looking for is "abstract reasoning", or "fluid reasoning". You've likely noticed a pattern (whether consciously or subconsciously) in how different dishes are cooked, so following the pattern you cook other dishes despite having not been explicitly taught.

Are you autistic, have you had your IQ tested, and if so what is your IQ and what was your percentile on matrix reasoning/raven's progressive matricies (if you dont mind sharing)?

I recall having a perfect score on the math part of the SSAT.
Our company had an editing/engineering test and I had the highest score on that.
I graduated cum laude at an Ivy League school. Member of the math Honor society and two engineering societies.
I attended three wine and cheese parties sponsored by the school!

But, not I did not spend the $1500 to get diagnosed with autism when I was in my late 40s.
Though I was unofficially diagnosed by someone who knew me for years while he was doing his internship at the state facility that does involuntary lockups for folks with mental health issues. So, you could say that he not only had professional qualifications, he had see stuff that only happens behind locked doors.

My wife taught me cooking for a family.
After she passed I learned how to cook for one.
A deep fryer works great for that. Fried bread dough is fast and tasty!
Then I learned how to get the most out of my little slow cooker to make dinner for one.

I was tested during my third grade year. My reading comprehension was above high school level. My science and math abilities were around 9th grade level. I often frustrated my teachers because I could explain certain topics way better than they understood the material themselves. By fifth grade, I was tutoring high school students (friends of my older sister) in math and science. That school was a great place for me to learn.

I completed their canned gifted materials for high school level by the time I moved at the end of my fifth grade year. Unfortunately, I moved to a place that did not like gifted children and was bullied endlessly because of it. They did not have a gifted program, so I was on my own. I had restrictions placed upon me to prevent the upstaging of certain popular kids whose parents ran the town. I was not allowed to compete in science fairs, as the administration felt I had an unfair advantage. (By that time, I had extracted several poisons from plants and could make my own explosives.) From the abuse I learned that there was no place for me, so I started hiding my talents. It is safer to be less of a target that way. It still is that way in some aspects, as I do not get to utilize my full abilities where I work.

I would have traded my giftedness for a normal childhood without that level of abuse in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, you do not get that choice to make. I just wish we never would have moved where we did.

Anyone get marked down for this?

"This is the answer you're expecting.... These two are also valid, but I prefer this one for of its novel use of n-dimensional space."

Working? But it's obvious.