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funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2025, 10:18 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, the first trans person was an unfortunate baby BOY that was born in 1965. DECADES after my mother. A doctor insisted on doing a SIMPLE operation that, back then, was done on over 50% of males, and it was a DISASTER. The doctor ended up making him seem like a girl, because the baby was no longer able to really pass as male.

So why do you people want to appear as another sex?


David Reimer is a tragic case, but he's not the first person to have transitioned. He's one of the best documented cases that shows that gender identity isn't plastic or related to social conditioning. Whether cis or trans, you can't really socially condition a kid into identifying with a gender that they don't identify with.

He was never trans, so transitioning him was ill-advised. This is not the same as a kid who always identified as the opposite sex, who would typically be expected to successfully transition.


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03 Mar 2025, 11:49 am

funeralxempire wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, the first trans person was an unfortunate baby BOY that was born in 1965. DECADES after my mother. A doctor insisted on doing a SIMPLE operation that, back then, was done on over 50% of males, and it was a DISASTER. The doctor ended up making him seem like a girl, because the baby was no longer able to really pass as male.

So why do you people want to appear as another sex?


David Reimer is a tragic case, but he's not the first person to have transitioned. He's one of the best documented cases that shows that gender identity isn't plastic or related to social conditioning. Whether cis or trans, you can't really socially condition a kid into identifying with a gender that they don't identify with.

He was never trans, so transitioning him was ill-advised. This is not the same as a kid who always identified as the opposite sex, who would typically be expected to successfully transition.



To be CLEAR, David was VERY upset that he had all that garbage, TRIED to fit in as NORMAL again, and NEVER managed it and ended up committing suicide because of it. Of course it WAS pushed on him before he likely even knew ANYTHING.

But I have seen "trans" people IN THEIR TWENTIES that knew NOTHING about what they were going through. To put it simply, females can't have prostates. The prostate isn't spoken about much, but it is really like the central part of a males sexual ability, controlling almost everything there. The other organs people DO talk about are all tied to it. And men can't have uteruses The uterus is effectively as all encompassing as the male prostate.



2ukenkerl
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03 Mar 2025, 12:04 pm

Velorum wrote:
Well if we want to talk about hard science the fact is that we all start out as female.

Research human development / embryology / genetics.

Males are in effect a kind of modified female.

My opinion:

Its then hardly surprising that a significant number of people feel uncomfortable with the gender that they are expected to conform with - which in a sense is a social construct.

In relation to this social construct, perceived deviation from the 'norms' of the tribe or social group are usually met with disapproval and opposition.

Many, though of course not all, AU folk see less value in social norms and confirming to the norms of the tribe. Hence they are more flexible in considering a whole range of alternative gender identities. I see this all of the time within the LGBTQ+ community that I am proud to belong to. There are so many ND people within it.

I strongly identify as non-binary as anything else seems illogical for me. The only way that I think that this can have a negative impact on others is that it adds to the growing challenge towards established norms, stereotypes and the historic expectations of various conservative groups in society. I regard these things as mainly driven by a neurotypical mindset anyway. Its always a little depressing when I see ND people supporting this NT agenda usually as a result of years of a kind of conversion therapy to make them more NT.


Men and women, functionally, ARE very similar. I don't know if anyone ever tried to figure out HOW similar, but it is MORE than many would think! Some things that are functionally different: Brain, Skin, Bone, Muscle, Some joints, Pelvis, urinary track, method of thinking, reactions.

I haven't even talked about sexual function yet. As for saying WHICH sex is better? It is kind of a tossup. Women are more flexible, and can probably do physical tasks longer. Men can take more hits and injury, and produce more force. A woman's pelvis is more flexible where it has to be. Women are less likely to have urinary problems if they take basic care. The prostate is MUCH more complicated. I could probably list a hundred differences and STILL come out relatively even.



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03 Mar 2025, 12:08 pm

Even when I grew out a full beard as best I could in my late 30s and 40s I 'd still get misgendered as female!
I'd also get misgendered on the telephone as we would agree on a male gender at the beginning of the conversation but they would forget after I solved their issues.

Nonbinary seems to be the best option--you get to pick my gender!
Socializing is a lot easier when I present female wearing a skirt and heels.



2ukenkerl
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03 Mar 2025, 4:54 pm

BTDT,

So ARE you originally a female, or a male? What some "trans" people don't understand is that there ARE NASCENT cells, and ARs, in BOTH genders,and harder tissue may be less reactive. So males could grow breasts, though the mechanisms behind them aren't there, and females can grow hair in various places, and the vocal cords can grow, etc... but the larynx might not grow much. So a female might ALWAYS sound female. Of course there ARE ways you can fake it, and even make it a habit, so you seem more like a male. I never kept track of them, but there ARE people on youtube that will teach the basics even for FREE. Mostly you'll have to speak with the throat, and practice.
I even saw a person who could easily pass for female, demonstrate the female voice she usually uses, and the male one she used to have. Youtube will probably think I am "trans" now. 8/ BUT, I found one coach like I described:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H-8QT0UL2f8


ALSO, many women have a feminine type of vocabulary, and you would want to avoid that. Especially since a female using a male vocabulary probably wouldn't be noticed AT ALL! A MALE using a female vocabulary would get bad looks, or worse. Of course if they aren't looking at you, and you are speaking in a female range, they will just take you as female, and treat you accordingly.

Well, I guess there are some things I will NEVER understand. One being why people would want to physically change to appear what they never really can be. I simply thought it might help me to understand some people better.

This is ALMOST like the parts of the DCOM SKY HIGH. One guy SHOULD, by all accounts, be THE MOST MAGNIFICENT SUPERHERO EVER, but he can't even make SIDEKICK! Various people tell him he could get exposed to TOXIC OOZE or something and, if he doesn't get CANCER, maybe he will become a superhero. HE thought that was a bad idea and decided not to go that route. HE, in the end, becomes that superhero he should have been, and saves everyone, he was just a "late bloomer". But imagine if he HAD tried the other way.

OH YEAH! One of my interests is LANGUAGE! FUN FACT! SOME languages, like Hindi, and arabic, have a GENDERED FIRST PERSON PRONOUN, AND/OR VERB! SO, if you speak some foreign languages, KEEP THAT IN MIND!

FOR EXAMPLE, you can NOT say "I UNDERSTAND HINDI" in hindi! If I try to say that in hindi, it comes across as
"I understand, as a male, hindi"!



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03 Mar 2025, 5:00 pm

I'd always get confused looks when picking up my order at Panera bread as my name didn't match my appearance.
Same thing happens when I get my Covid shots.



2ukenkerl
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04 Mar 2025, 6:28 am

BTDT wrote:
I'd always get confused looks when picking up my order at Panera bread as my name didn't match my appearance.
Same thing happens when I get my Covid shots.


Well, you can't really blame them. There is a person at an office supply store I go to from time to time. That person has a male voice, and is dressed in a dress like little girls in the 1960s used to wear when going to a party. The person has a male weight distribution and general look, but bows in the hair. The person smiled after a little puzzled pause when I called them emily, the name on the name tag.

Anyway, I said my bit here. DESPITE what the other person said, I am trying to help and understand. This could literally be the end of the human race, but then I am not methuselah either!

Some women NATURALLY have a low voice, that sits on or just over the natural low point. Some men have a high voice, that sits at about that point, or goes over. Although it used to be relatively rare, the same was true of clothes and relative build. And frankly, this lgbtq stuff is unfair to such people as many will think THEY are "trans".



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04 Mar 2025, 7:28 am

The end of the human race? That seems a little dramatic.

Take a seat. Let's talk. Alright, so, I am also cisgender. That means that my assigned gender at birth matches my gender identity. Cis as a prefix means on the same side of. In alignment.

I've heard the argument that a greater acknowledgement of transgender people existing will lead to a greater number of people mistakenly identifying as transgender when they are not transgender. Alright. Let's unpack that line of thinking.

In order to medically transition, a person has to go through rounds of therapy and consultations. This is to rule out any other potential causes and ensure that HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) is the best course of action for the patient.

Most people in the world are cisgender. It is possible that someone may question their gender identity only to realise that they are cisgender after all. It happens. Does this invalidate the existence of transgender people? No.

The transitionary process is a long one and a heavily screened one at that. You are unlikely to get far in the process if you are cisgender.

I think that you have some sort of doomsday scenario in your head that I've heard before of oh the whole world will become trans! The whole world isn't going to become trans, alright? Let's all take a deep breath.

Poor standards of living, bad wages, a bad economy and a lack of affordable housing are the real threats to the growth of humanity. Not the acknowledgement that some people are transgender.

I'm a woman with a slightly lower voice. It's a fairly average voice, fairly typical range, but maybe lower than what you might expect. I'm also taller than the average woman, have broad shoulders and a square face. I also have a rectangular build, small chest and a short torso. I am left handed and have longer ring fingers. I am also attracted to other women.

Yet I still very much identify as a woman. I do not think of myself as any less of a woman because of these traits. The fact transgender people exist has not made me think that I am transgender because my sense of gender is just an innate part of who I am. Much like it is for other people; cisgender and transgender alike.


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04 Mar 2025, 8:52 am

Not only am I shorter than the average women, but I have an hourglass figure with slightly long legs.
I'm still short wearing high heels.
Only 8% of women have an hourglass figure.

I changed my name at Panera to a feminine one. :D



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05 Mar 2025, 11:44 am

My voice is naturally high pitched. It has evolved over decades of phone customer service so that I enunciate words very clearly so that guys can understand me. It took a while for me to realize that some customers really wanted to talk to a guy with a low pitched voice but attempting that made me sound fake. It is quite useful when talking to folks in the healthcare.



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05 Mar 2025, 12:13 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
When I was little, I very much wanted to be a boy.

Later in childhood, I realized that I didn't really identify with either boys or girls.

Eventually I concluded that I'm a gender-nonconforming woman.

If the term "nonbinary" were commonplace when I was younger, I would likely identify as nonbinary.


You DO realize that there ARE TOMBOYS, right?

My mother was even a tomboy. She was the ONLY girl in her family, and she had a LOT of brothers! So sometimes she dressed almost like a boy, and played with boys, etc.... But she was female, and stayed that way, etc.... ALSO, on the bad news bears, they have a girl playing a tomboy type character.

Sorry for the bad outburst in the below trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1DDuN_eYlg

It was in a freer time when people kind of took it in stride.

To the best of my knowledge, the first trans person was an unfortunate baby BOY that was born in 1965. DECADES after my mother. A doctor insisted on doing a SIMPLE operation that, back then, was done on over 50% of males, and it was a DISASTER. The doctor ended up making him seem like a girl, because the baby was no longer able to really pass as male.

So why do you people want to appear as another sex?

Yep, actual tomboys are generally still women in pretty much every way, they just might prefer to do some things that are more traditionally viewed as being the domain of men. For example, they might be really into sports, or the outdoors or mechanical work, but that doesn't mean that they can't or don't like dressing up in nice clothing that's consistent with being a woman and made to feel special. It just means that in some part of their lives, the like things that men like.

That being said, clearly sometimes that's a more conscious strategy to get a partner and sometimes it is part of a broader gender identify that does carry over into enough areas that you're probably talking about somebody that's trans or nonbinary.



Last edited by Cornflake on 05 Mar 2025, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Removed some casual sexism

2ukenkerl
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05 Mar 2025, 5:29 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
The end of the human race? That seems a little dramatic.

Take a seat. Let's talk. Alright, so, I am also cisgender. That means that my assigned gender at birth matches my gender identity. Cis as a prefix means on the same side of. In alignment.

I've heard the argument that a greater acknowledgement of transgender people existing will lead to a greater number of people mistakenly identifying as transgender when they are not transgender. Alright. Let's unpack that line of thinking.

In order to medically transition, a person has to go through rounds of therapy and consultations. This is to rule out any other potential causes and ensure that HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) is the best course of action for the patient.

Most people in the world are cisgender. It is possible that someone may question their gender identity only to realise that they are cisgender after all. It happens. Does this invalidate the existence of transgender people? No.

The transitionary process is a long one and a heavily screened one at that. You are unlikely to get far in the process if you are cisgender.

I think that you have some sort of doomsday scenario in your head that I've heard before of oh the whole world will become trans! The whole world isn't going to become trans, alright? Let's all take a deep breath.

Poor standards of living, bad wages, a bad economy and a lack of affordable housing are the real threats to the growth of humanity. Not the acknowledgement that some people are transgender.

I'm a woman with a slightly lower voice. It's a fairly average voice, fairly typical range, but maybe lower than what you might expect. I'm also taller than the average woman, have broad shoulders and a square face. I also have a rectangular build, small chest and a short torso. I am left handed and have longer ring fingers. I am also attracted to other women.

Yet I still very much identify as a woman. I do not think of myself as any less of a woman because of these traits. The fact transgender people exist has not made me think that I am transgender because my sense of gender is just an innate part of who I am. Much like it is for other people; cisgender and transgender alike.



The idea of someone saying the end of the human race seemED out of line in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, not so much in the 2010s, in the 2020s it is close to prophetic!! !! !

SOMEHOW something is making people OPEN to this stuff, and it is GROWING. Evry F2M or M2F, or person that marris them, is effectively STERILE, and likely WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE KIDS! Within 30 years of no kids, thy human race will be EXTINCT! We haven't gotten to that point YT, but some have estimated that it could happen within 40 years. So by some time between 2050 and 2080. The estimates are based on 2010, IIRC.

People do NOT have to go through rounds of therapy, OR EVEN SEE A DOCTOR!

BTW the "pausing of puberty stuff" is a SCAM! Puberty won't really just start from where you left off! MY generation called it "chemical castration". And what happens is that there is REVERSION when you go on it, so some fertility is LOST! When you stop the drug, the puberty starts off again, SLOWER, from THAT point! If it is stopped after puberty would have stopped, you will NOT be in puberty any more. If you started a month before the end of puberty, you might have effectively a week of puberty left, which would maybe make up some of what you lost in the reversion.

I just want people to know the truth.



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05 Mar 2025, 6:35 pm

^
Sir, if I may, I would rather have a calm conversation about this topic. There is no need to shout.

Frankly, this part of the forum is ill-suited for the type of conversation that you're looking for. This seems more of Politics, Philosophy and Religion (PPR) topic. The original poster's post has been overshadowed by this detour.

Regardless, I'll allow the devil's advocate his soapbox. If you must argue your case; cite your sources. Then we can at least have a conversation with more structure.


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05 Mar 2025, 7:35 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
Frankly, this part of the forum is ill-suited for the type of conversation that you're looking for. This seems more of Politics, Philosophy and Religion (PPR) topic. The original poster's post has been overshadowed by this detour.

I think that’s a really good point. In the description to this forum, it says: “Are you a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender autistic? Discuss issues related to autism and being LGBTQ in this forum.”

I was thinking that something similar to what DW_a_mom says in Forum Guidelines – Women’s Discussion might be appropriate here. Adjusting it accordingly, it could say something like:

“While Wrong Planet rules do not prohibit posting by straight and cisgender members in the LGBT Discussion, straight and cisgender members who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them. This forum is intended to be more friendly to the LGBTQIA+ community, and to focus on issues unique to them.

Postings designed to mock or derail discussions of LGBTQIA+ issues on this board generally violate the Wrong Planet Terms of Service and will be removed. If this occurs, please contact an active moderator as listed here: viewtopic.php?t=406797 ”

Asking genuine questions and engaging with people in a supportive way is fine, but coming on here telling members that some facet of their experience may be wrong or telling them how it “actually” is wouldn’t be appropriate. Debates are more for PPR as long as the rules, including the one prohibiting homophobic and transphobic language, are abided by.

Just my two cents. Sorry for the derail OP!


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