Anti-Zionism, antisemitism, lesson plans, and harassment
So when it comes to education, is every state in the US as a government body of education similar to most European countries? But with different content =)
Sort of agree with you. I believe teachers should be allowed the freedom and independence to organize an union. And if they choose to say - as an American I refuse to see my country partake in a genocide by finance and selling weapons. I want to try to make a change - I think they should be able to do that, if it's in their spare time.
It's another thing if they advocating for a specific political person or cause.
But to portrait it as an widespread thing from teachers as a collective group, that's just dehumanizing like you said.
Isn't this great reason to have a scientific approach to education? The author clearly doesn't have it. Rather a more emotional approach. For example citing the article about California is cleansing the history of the Jews. For real ?! How's that not far-right propaganda ??
How can this be true? Above you explain that they aren't the authors of the curriculum.
Citation needed! I can't find anywhere she argues/claims that to be the case.
strategic asset that is not antisemitic.
You're missing my point. The backstory was problematic individuals who posted antisemitic pictures and messages on social media.
And answering the question, do you have a problem with antisemitism in your party? With, no we're the most pro-Israel party there is. Conflating Israel with Judaism, I would say is a antisemitic thing to do. Since there are other groups of people living in Israel, like Christians, Muslims, Palestinian and so on. Since the context of the question was the topic of Israel's war on Palestine. There are Jewish people who are against the genocide.
That was my point with Netanyahu being a Zionist Jew. Zionism is often being conflated with Judaism as a whole in this context of the war. And with Biden also being a Zionist, Zionism is over-represented in position of power of nations with influence in this conflict.
_________________
Love is all ♪
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,703
Location: Long Island, New York
Like I the said definition of antisemitism is contentious. When I was growing up the belief that Judaism conflates with Israel was ubiquitous among American Jews and Americans in general. While this has changed especially among young people a strong majority still agrees with this. Most Jewish prayer books still mention Zion and Israel, Most synagogues still hold fundraisers for Israel, many participate in birthright programs which sponsor trips to Israel for the purpose of discovering their Jewish heritage. Thus many contend that not conflating Judaism with Israeli is antisemitic because it is denying their identity.
Why do I claim the author of article believes that teaching Israeli is committing genocide is factually wrong and antisemitic when she did not explicitly say that? Because I am familiar with the think tank where she is a senior fellow.
Academics write curriculum. The administrators of local school district which we call a school board are elected officials. The Governors of each state are elected officials who appoint the people that set guidelines the school boards have to follow.
While teachers are not the authors of the curriculum, the teachers the article is about are supporters of the curriculum that is why she is blaming them.
The vast majority of zionists will say zionism is not blanket support for the government in Israel at the moment and everything they do although many anti zionists do conflate zionism with the blanket support of whatever Israel does. Most zionists define zionism as supporting the right of Jews to self determination while that often means a Jewish nation state not all self described zionists agree with that and many many self described zionists despise Netanyahu.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 02 Nov 2024, 8:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Wish , I had the skills to manipulate media like this , Interesting about facism , think it used to be considered a pro corporate economy was considered Fascist . Rather than a economy that is pro people .? Then still conflating Believers of the Judaic faith , with Israeli nationals . Notwithstanding about Israel and any basis with the Judaic faith.
The OP sounded like more crazys adding to the extra crazyness.
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Shouldn't they be judge on their actions instead of their thoughts? You still fail to address the hate author and yourself are spreading. You, yourself called it dehumanizing, which I agree with.
It's one thing to be upset about a curriculum. Take part of the democratic process instead. Like people and groups did and pushed for changes. Which was made for the Armenian, Jewish, Korean and Sikh Americans. I mean mistakes can be made by everyone. But we can amend those mistakes and try to do better. To start spreading hate like this is no viable option to me.
I believe you to be dishonest. How isn't fair to say she doesn't want the education of critical thinking of oppressed minorities since she's calling the curriculum demonizing Israel, and that cited article's headline is "California is cleansing the history of the Jews". ("The Matilda effect", if you are curious about what cleansing history means)
You choose not to answer questions, why you left out vital part of the article in your quote (I claim it even pile on the dehumanizing of the teachers as a group of people).
You rather speak of what others feel and think rather than being factual. That's a shame.
Is it me or you that missing the whole point of the curriculum your quoted article talks about? You argue that since the majority of a group feels a certain way the minority should disregard their feelings or start feeling the same (conformity, perhaps ??). The times before was much more bigoted, hence many struggles for different groups. Why we have been in the need of a better critical thinking, in the subject of history for an example.
To be more inclusive, work and change is necessary. Isn't that reason for why some of us are here at WP? (a feeling of excluded, not belonging)
A side note: In my community I've started work for a change in my sports team (and long term the community as a whole) to be better in included ND-people. Yearly we educated the coaches and/or parents in the subject (voluntary). We have had a great response from it. Several say they have gotten great insight in their own behavior by learning about other people and from there got ideas how to make change.
Since many of us have poor motor skills and lagging in maturity in early age. It's a easy thing to get knocked out from participation. Why should we start by exclude 10% of the population in something that can have so many great benefits like social, health and so on.
And having the fortune of been around many elite athlete's, almost all of them display personal traits very common among ND's.
_________________
Love is all ♪
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,703
Location: Long Island, New York
Shouldn't they be judge on their actions instead of their thoughts? You still fail to address the hate author and yourself are spreading. You, yourself called it dehumanizing, which I agree with.
It's one thing to be upset about a curriculum. Take part of the democratic process instead. Like people and groups did and pushed for changes. Which was made for the Armenian, Jewish, Korean and Sikh Americans. I mean mistakes can be made by everyone. But we can amend those mistakes and try to do better. To start spreading hate like this is no viable option to me.
I believe you to be dishonest. How isn't fair to say she doesn't want the education of critical thinking of oppressed minorities since she's calling the curriculum demonizing Israel, and that cited article's headline is "California is cleansing the history of the Jews". ("The Matilda effect", if you are curious about what cleansing history means)
You choose not to answer questions, why you left out vital part of the article in your quote (I claim it even pile on the dehumanizing of the teachers as a group of people).
You rather speak of what others feel and think rather than being factual. That's a shame.
Is it me or you that missing the whole point of the curriculum your quoted article talks about? You argue that since the majority of a group feels a certain way the minority should disregard their feelings or start feeling the same (conformity, perhaps ??). The times before was much more bigoted, hence many struggles for different groups. Why we have been in the need of a better critical thinking, in the subject of history for an example.
To be more inclusive, work and change is necessary. Isn't that reason for why some of us are here at WP? (a feeling of excluded, not belonging)
A side note: In my community I've started work for a change in my sports team (and long term the community as a whole) to be better in included ND-people. Yearly we educated the coaches and/or parents in the subject (voluntary). We have had a great response from it. Several say they have gotten great insight in their own behavior by learning about other people and from there got ideas how to make change.
Since many of us have poor motor skills and lagging in maturity in early age. It's a easy thing to get knocked out from participation. Why should we start by exclude 10% of the population in something that can have so many great benefits like social, health and so on.
And having the fortune of been around many elite athlete's, almost all of them display personal traits very common among ND's.
Based on the think tank she comes from I do agree articles author if not against critical thinking is against critical race theory and the ethical studies program it seems inspired and influenced by. I did judge the teachers by their actions when I opined they should not actively assist students with their protests.
Stating opinions you find abhorrent is not automatically spreading hate. State where I or the author in the article is spreading hate, where we denigrate groups of people?
Let’s talk about inclusion.
Survey Reports on Jewish Students’ Experiences at U.S. Colleges Research by Tufts political scientist Eitan Hersh shows increasing identification with Jewish roots and unease on college campuses across the country
Among other findings were that students of higher socioeconomic status, both Jewish and non-Jewish, were the strongest supporters of Israel, and that while many Jewish students saw their schools as aligned against Israel, many non-Jewish students saw school administrations as being pro-Israel.
The study was done by Eitan Hersh, A05, professor of political science, for the Jim Joseph Foundation, which seeks to promote Jewish education in the U.S. The study began in 2022, using data from College Pulse, a survey research and analytics company that focuses on higher education. In 2022, only Jewish students were surveyed, but in subsequent years non-Jewish students on college campuses with significant Jewish populations were included.
Hersh, who has done previous scholarly work on antisemitism, co-wrote the report with Dahlia Lyss, A24, who worked with him while an undergraduate at Tufts. Hersh spoke recently with Tufts Now about the report.
What are the main takeaways from the study?
One is that the students who are Jewish tend to feel connected to Israel—it’s an important part of their identity—and it’s not about the politics of Israel. Many of those Jewish students have the worst things to say about the Netanyahu government, but for religious, cultural, ethnic, and family reasons, many feel that Israel is important to who they are.
And the view that they have, which is that there needs to be a Jewish country, basically is really unpopular with some segment of the student population.
The other is that compared to 2022, there is a doubling of students saying that they hide their Jewish identity to fit in on their campus. A lot of the Jewish students we surveyed don’t necessarily like the conduct of the war, but they can’t give up this part of their identity so easily and they don’t intend to—and they don’t want to be socially ostracized. That’s because many students who are on the “Israel is evil” kind of side of the issue don’t see anything wrong with ostracizing students who have a different view than them.
One of the survey findings was about the profound difference between how Jewish and non-Jewish students viewed their schools. You write that many Jewish students see schools as overwhelmingly aligned against Israel, evidenced by the opinions of faculty, staff, and students, while many non-Jewish students tend to see their school administrations as overwhelmingly aligned with Israel.
This really came out in focus groups, and honestly, you can see both sides. They’re both right, in other words.
It’s clear that the students on both sides of this conflict felt aggrieved. There are students who say, ‘Look, I’ve been in protest movements my whole college career and before this one, the administration seemed to celebrate it and now they don’t.’ From their perspective, that’s a real difference. And they attribute that to the administration having an oppositional view from them.
The Jewish students feel that a lot of students are against them. I think that they felt that the last few years particularly have been a time when universities have pressed students to be very sensitive to racial and gender identities, to make sure you’re sensitive about the language you use, so people aren’t offended. And that all of that went out the window when people were chanting “We hate Zionists” or “Let there be an intifada” [uprising against Israel] or things like this. I think the Jewish students felt, ‘Oh, the sensitivity for some reason stopped at us.’
underlining=mine:
This survey is about college students. I posted it due to the lack of surveys of Jewish primary school students and having little reason to believe the opinions expressed in this survey would be different for Jewish primary school students.
In no way should anyones opinion be censored. I should note America is very different then most European countries. Hate speech is constitutionally protected free speech unless it poses an imminent threat to others.
School should be a place for people to experiment not to conform. Experimenting and the mistakes and consequences suffered from these mistakes are a necessary part of forming ones identity.
As America is a varied and diverse country the popularity of zionism vary greatly often by location. Zionism is a despised minority view in Americas elite universities. Based on the political leanings of Northern California and what was reported in the article this is apparently true for the school districts the article is reporting on.
Even if one believes the opinions of the Jewish students surveyed are ludicrous, if one feels that these opinions should not be included in discussions, if one feels that their lived and generational experiences should be dismissed one should look at one’s own unintended prejudices. I feel the teachers involved were not inclusive and sensitive in this instance.
According to Wrong Planet rules it is perfectly ok to say the author of a posted article is a liar. Personal attacks against WP members are not allowed. I am disappointed you called me that because this has been one of the more interesting back and forth discussions I have had with another member. I found your questions both relevant and probing and a through attempt to find
out where I am coming from.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
But teachers today often consume and regurgitate anachronistic propaganda uncritically.
But instead of a laser focus on how to educate kids, teachers are coming up with ever more ways to attack the existence of Israel.
Dillon Hosier, Chief Executive Officer of the Israeli-American Civic Action Network, explained that for generations, the Jewish community has poured its resources into nonprofits, which are not legally permitted to lobby. “Our opponents,” he said, referring to organizations like Council on American-Islamic Relations, “are putting people in public office and getting bills passed.”
In Portland, the Intifada Begins in Kindergarten
California Is Cleansing Jews From History (talking about Californias teachers)
Welcome to IndoctriNation
Aware of their ability to shape young minds, teachers encouraged schoolchildren to join “Walkouts” for Palestine, don keffiyehs, chant the eliminationist slogan “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” and tell their Jewish classmates, “It is excellent what Hamas did to Israel,” according to a complaint filed to the U.S. Department of Education by the Brandeis Center and the Anti-Defamation League on behalf of Jewish students.
The Arab Resource and Organizing Center (“AROC”)
California’s letter to public schools is not enough to stop state-sponsored antisemitism By David Bernstein, Brandy Shufutinsky | August 31, 2023
The original curriculum, “Liberated Ethnic Studies,” was so outrageously antisemitic, it was officially abandoned. In The Free Press, Shufutinsky called it “a Trojan horse to institutionalize antisemitism in California schools.”
But even the successor course—implemented by many of the same educators who had proposed the Liberated Ethnic Studies curriculum in California—has provided a vehicle for anti-Israel indoctrination of American schoolchildren.
(Shufutinsky told me that the reformed curriculum teaches that “Israel is something that it isn’t. That it’s the ultimate evil. That it is apartheid. That it is a settler colonial state that deserves to be dismantled. That Zionism is racism.”)
She formed a nonprofit to organize against the inclusion of politicized ethnic studies in California schools and maintains an archive of the antisemitic materials promulgated in American classrooms.
“We’re raising a generation of antisemites,” (we as in teachers)
“What I saw was what seemed to be a very well-coordinated effort between activist teachers, activist organizations, and administrators that were trying to do a lot of kowtowing to progressive social ideology through programming and bringing that programming into their schools,” she said. “There is just this insidious idea that it is okay to hate Jews or attack Jews if they feel any connection to the Jewish homeland—to Israel; if there’s any expression of Jewish pride, especially when that pride is Zionism,” she said. “I think that antisemitism, like the Jew hatred, isn’t the end goal. I think it’s the symptom of a bigger anti-Western illiberalism that has taken over a lot of our institutions,” Shufutinsky told me. “Liberated Ethnic Studies.” This would eventually become the mandatory California Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum. In discussions about the need for ethnic studies, educators were uniquely fixated on promoting an anti-Israel agenda. “The whole goal for pushing ethnic studies, making it a requirement, was so that they could teach Palestine,” she said.
All of the above are excerpts from your opinion piece and cited articles/opinion pieces.
If one were to speak in a similar language and meaning like above but about Jews, I would have no trouble calling it antisemitic. They should provide some factual substance to their claims. (I'm referring to the above and not the issues happening to the individual Jewish people. It find the stories appalling, some I would like to have some more context to.)
It's like you said in the beginning, it's dehumanizing. I agree and I would call dehumanizing a hateful act. Hence me calling it spreading hate. I make a distinction between acting hateful, which I appeal to you not to take part in. And your right to be a hateful person, which I believe you have the right to be if you choose to.
I believe these authors have an agenda of changing this curriculum to what they are comfortable with, disregarding everyone else. And try to achieve by dehumanizing people. Some perhaps have good intentions but fail in previous mentioned way. Was it one or two who doesn't believe Israel is occupying/colonizing the West Bank, that's just bananas.
Where you are coming from, I'm not sure of. Why I ask and try to get some clarity. I do appreciate the back and forth. It's not only antisemitism that's increasing, it's hate in general. I have an issue with that and can be somewhat of a nuisance to others by challenging it. I apologize if I gave you any discomfort from that.
In Sweden Jewish people are a protected group among several other minority groups. Sweden has a somewhat similar history with it's native people like the US. They are one of the other protected groups. Expressing hate towards those specific groups is a crime.
_________________
Love is all ♪
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,703
Location: Long Island, New York
I could not agree more that the author has an agenda and that agenda is to change curriculum, more specifically to end the ethnic studies program. Spreading ones agenda is the whole point of opinion pieces. She may or may not be a vile bigot but I saw nothing in that piece that denigrated a group of people. She criticized that particular group of teachers agenda and their actions but not them personally. She hates their agenda but so it is verbally correct to say she is spreading hate, but in America “spreading hate” usually refers to spreading hate about a group of people.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
No they do not. I gave you several examples on how they group all of them and dehumanize them as a collective. You ignoring that doesn't change it.
How isn't it a fair assumption to call you dishonest? When you either, not engage or disregard my critical questions and/or answering something else instead. Why would you call that a personal attack? And why wouldn't you ask me about it?
My opinion is that anti-science and religious zealously are corner stones oppression and spreading hate. The authors, kind of missing that point in their actions (you too, in a sense), and doesn't engage on a factual base. Rather, demonizes a collective group of people for the purpose of their aim like. It's up to you if you wish to follow their example, just to clarify. I would urge you not to. But it is your choice.
_________________
Love is all ♪
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,703
Location: Long Island, New York
No they do not. I gave you several examples on how they group all of them and dehumanize them as a collective. You ignoring that doesn't change it.
How isn't it a fair assumption to call you dishonest? When you either, not engage or disregard my critical questions and/or answering something else instead. Why would you call that a personal attack? And why wouldn't you ask me about it?
My opinion is that anti-science and religious zealously are corner stones oppression and spreading hate. The authors, kind of missing that point in their actions (you too, in a sense), and doesn't engage on a factual base. Rather, demonizes a collective group of people for the purpose of their aim like. It's up to you if you wish to follow their example, just to clarify. I would urge you not to. But it is your choice.
I don’t think you and I disagree as much as you think. I did write in a literal sense she was spreading hate against “them” , which is equivalent to a collective group. I do agree that zealotry be it religious or anti science often spreads hate.
In an American context saying you are being dishonest implies being a liar which is a personal attack. Upon reflection I think what you are trying to say is that I am being disingenuous.
While I disagree with that interpretation I might be wrong.
I have not said anything in this thread about your motivations I request you do the same about mine.
Let’s take a step back and look at the bigger picture. We are both on this forum because we have a condition where we have difficulty expressing ourselves in ways that do not lead to misinterpretation. Also we come from different parts of the world and some fundamental differences in how we view things.
Right now this thread is not accomplishing anything and is a candidate to be locked. I am not going to ask the moderators to do that now for three reasons. I do admire your work with ND kids, in my 11 years here I have seen many threads that appear to be going nowhere until other members post and the thread becomes informative, this topic is important and once threads are locked you cannot repost it.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
I'm not sure that you're right about that. You can be dishonest (intentionally or) unintentionally but at the same time commit an error/fault. Which I thought might be the case for you (unintentionally from your part), why I asked you to clarify a couple of times. You don't have to necessary be a liar.
For example: You can misrepresent teachers intent/belief by leaving out facts in a quoted article. Intentionally or unintentionally. Either way it's a dishonest thing to do. Hence me asking.
Doesn't disingenuous imply there's is an intent in the action, big or small?
Like I stated before. I would prefer if you asked me, if you don't understand or if I am unclear in any way?
I'm interested in what you believe, think and feel. I'm less interested of you telling me what I believe, think or mean. It's one thing discussing an article, topic and so on. Another thing the interaction between people, like between you and I.
_________________
Love is all ♪