After Trump’s win, some women are considering the 4B movemen

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Typical cut off your nose to spite your face act.

The idiocy of virtue signalling

The world simply won’t care but the people doing this will have to live with their decisions

When they explain their decision people will just think they were dumb to believe it would have an impact

The virtue signallers will just end up disappointed and angry at others who don’t go along with behaviour and that others don’t care

Reminds me of those that glue themselves to the road to protest climate change

You think the Chinese or Indians will care as they fire up another of their coal power stations to power their billion each population, but they will be left with disfigurement and physical pain with nothing achieved

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if some men dislike it. That’s kind of the whole point. As it stands, a rapist has been elected President. Misogyny and harassment is currently continues to be a huge problem. I’ve experienced it. It makes perfect sense why some would choose to join this movement. I’d imagine that others are naturally joining it because the current state of affairs seems like it’d be a natural mood killer to a lot of women, especially those who utilize online platforms and have experienced or observed harassment or who heard dismissive comments being made about that and related issues.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 14 Nov 2024, 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

I guess the saying “opposites attract” is dated.

One of the main reasons I never voted for Trump is because he is criminally misogynist. That said I know die hard MAGA’s that treat their wives and daughters wonderfully. There are a lot of Trump voters who say while I would never allow myself or my daughter's near the guy morality is not the job description. I strongly disagree with them but does make them toxic? As they say “It’s complicated”.

I don’t judge other peoples dating preferences, to each her own etc. I understand why now is an
especially emotionally raw time.

I don’t really think it’s all that complicated. They voted for someone who has a history of blatant misogyny - a history of demeaning, sexually harassing, and raping women. Enough said. Even if they wouldn’t want their daughters near such a person, they didn’t think his misogyny was a big enough problem not to vote for him. I suspect that, while many Trump supporters appear to treat women decently, it’s very likely that many of them have some degree of sexism going on, including internalized, even if it’s not readily apparent. Evangelical Christianity in America often features sexism, and such Christians are some of his staunchest supporters.

IMO, it’s not even so much about morality. It’s about human rights and criminal behavior. If someone violates human rights and/or commits crimes, they shouldn’t be in the White House. Pushing back against his supporters and enablers seems reasonable.

It is an especially raw time, but it’s something that has been building over time, I think. It’s a wonder something like 4B didn’t happen sooner because serious female issues/concerns continue to be overlooked or, at least, not adequately addressed.

Interestingly, the author of the article, Nicole Russell, is female. Some more of her material: https://www.usatoday.com/staff/73221959 ... e-russell/

The Harris campaign wasn't pushing an anti-male campaign at all, that I could tell. Certainly not "doubling down" on the narrative. She even couldn't be baited into calling Trump's supporters "stupid."

Trump seemed to be pushing anti-female agenda, quite aggressively.

Yet, a lot lot of women not only voted for him, but openly adore him.

I wonder why. Maybe they regard him as "confident" and "sexy." He gets their juices flowing, one way or another.

Or, do some women simply not want to see another woman succeed?

Neither of these possibilities are likely on a wide scale. I think it’s more about firmly entrenched, conservative values.

Trump isn't really a "conservative", though. He is a narcissistic sociopath. A television celebrity. And, a fascist/autocrat.

A person can be all those things AND conservative. He was the Republican candidate. Many people cling to the Republican Party as they cling to religion. I know a lot of people like that. In addition to that, some think he will be good for the economy although sometimes it seems more like an excuse to support their stance.

Still, a greater percentage of women voted for Harris than Trump. I would’ve thought the gap would be wider, though.

https://apnews.com/article/election-har ... b858f22d12

It doesn't seem quite fair to postulate that men voted for Trump on account of "blatant misogyny", whereas women voted for Trump because of "firmly entrenched, conservative values."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statis ... xit-polls/

I didn’t say or claim that “blatant misogyny” was responsible for men voting for Trump although it appears to have played a significant role for a small subset of male voters. Overall, it’s more complex than that, but sexism plays some role nonetheless. I said: “They [Trump voters] voted for someone who has a history of blatant misogyny - a history of demeaning, sexually harassing, and raping women.”

And also: “I suspect that, while many Trump supporters appear to treat women decently, it’s very likely that many of them have some degree of sexism going on, including internalized, even if it’s not readily apparent.” (Internalized sexism in this context is sexism women feel towards themselves and/or other women. Like other forms of sexism or bigotry for that matter, it stems from one’s environment.)

Sexism has always been present in the Republican Party/among conservatives in America. Some of that is tied up in religion. The 4B movement also encompasses issues surrounding abortion and (online) harassment. It’s not solely about Trump although Trump’s win has led to some men more openly espousing hate and entitlement towards women - “Your Body, My Choice,” not that that or similar sentiments are new or unheard of. I experienced some particularly vile sexual harassment online a month ago. It seems to be a fairly common experience which is likely why some women are interested in trying new tactics.

So, for some women, voting for Trump was a matter of self-loathing? I suppose it might make sense.

I will say one thing for Trump--he is probably the most conspicuously successful con artist that the country has ever seen.

Another successful con: whoever it was who persuaded a lot of women that they absolutely had to damage their feet with overpriced high-heeled shoes.

https://www.footdoc.org/blog/how-bad-ar ... trists.cfm

Jessica Simpson sells a lot of them: https://jessicasimpson.com/

No, I never claimed it was that simple because it’s not. Sexism played some role. That is all. Being anti-choice, for example, is inherently sexist, but there’s typically more going on with folks who hold that stance than sexism alone.

I think political views are most often too complex to be easily summed up by one or two things. It is clear that sexism is a serious issue that deserves a lot of attention, though.

I don’t think 4B will take off, but I hope it serves to raise awareness about female issues/concerns, especially those related to abortion, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.

If people were voting based on who would make the better president, then Kamala Harris would have won. But, I suspect that something more on a subconscious level is going on, particularly among the neurotypicals.

In the psychology profession, there is a fair amount of literature on women derogating other women in order to improve their chances of reproductive success with high-status males. For example,

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... %2C%202017).

I will hypothesize that, at a subconscious level, some of this tendency among neurotypical women to derogate other women may have been a factor in Kamala Harris' defeat. Look at Nicole Russell's article, which I cited above, for example. Full of derogation. Nothing at all constructive.

More women voted for Harris than Trump overall, and more women voted for Harris than men did in each demographic if you break it down by race and age:





https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... olls?amp=1

It doesn’t seem necessary to come up with theories suggesting that women didn’t vote for Harris because of supposed competition or whatever else. As with men, women have political opinions and complex reasons for them. There are a lot of religious, conservative women in this country who consider it their religious duty to vote Republican. Also, 91% of Black female voters voted for Harris. I think the divide is about political ideology, not competition, although, undoubtedly, sexism and racism played some role.

The majority of women in the USA are White, and most White women voted for the criminal. Which I find astounding.



We are humans, and humans ponder. Pondering distinguishes humans from other animal species.

Intrasexual competition between women evolved early among our pre-human ancestors, as did other aspects of human behavior that may not be particularly functional in modern societies. For example, the "fight-or-flight" instinct was useful to our ancestors when threatened by a predator, but is less helpful to modern humans when we're annoyed by an office-mate.

If we can posit, at least somewhat convincingly, that, for example, Nicole Russell's derogatory comments about Kamala Harris, and other women's desires not to see a highly-qualified woman succeed, stemmed from an inherited trait that had its root in pre-human sex, then, perhaps, more female voters will be shamed into voting based on a candidate's actual qualifications. Or, we could just throw our hands in the air, and try to field George Clooney or Brad Pitt as presidential candidates.

“Occam’s razor, or the principle of parsimony, tells us that the simplest, most elegant explanation is usually the one closest to the truth.”

An interesting story about a hypothesis that was disproven: https://scienceandsociety.duke.edu/occa ... .%E2%80%9D



I don't know that men are really that complicated.





Religion evolved early among humans, to keep us in line. Intrasexual competition came to our species earlier, as intrasexual competition occurs among other social animals that have no religion.



Black female voters were also credited with defeating a pedophile Senate candidate in Alabama in 2017.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... men-voters



I think that political ideology had very little to do with it. More voters are going to be harmed than helped by Trump's plans for the future. A lot of voters just thought that Trump was cute.