Grand conspiracy theories/claims/ideology

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People shouldn't dismiss an idea simply on the basis that it's been labelled as a conspiracy theory, but it's good to engage in critical thinking about the sorts of claims that tend to be labelled as conspiracy theories and consider if better explanations might also exist.

In particular if those claims from from someone who's well-known for peddling claims about shape-shifting reptilians being deeply involved in human affairs and base those claims on a mishmash of pop sci and pulp fiction, like David Icke is well-known for.

Trust me, I get it. Up until recently I was, just like you, doubtful of the validity of the letter because of several reasons. I still am not willing to declare it as 100% real, but I am beginning to wonder if the agenda itself is. My reasons are simple, looking at the insanity of the world today has all the appearances of following the general blueprint laid out in it. The world is, quite literally, balancing on the precipice of another global war. Israel and Gaza, Russia and Ukraine, covid, gender, finances, global debt, and religious differences are all working to pull humanity in all directions at once. This seems to be what the letter stated as its goal. I have heard from others that the Pike agenda was referenced by Dostoesky in his 1872 book "The Possessed", but don't know for sure as I haven't read it yet.

If it were just David Icke then I would say you may very well be right, but it isn't just David who has talked about there being at least 1 alien race being deeply involved with human affairs. Icke is merely one of many, and some of them are or were respected in their fields of knowledge.

I agree, too many "conspiracy theory debunkers" over-rely on these simplistic arguments. Fortunately, there are also some conspiracy theory debunkers who do bother to delve into the details.

For a while in 2007 to 2008, I was very worried about the possibility of 9/11 being an "inside job." So I delved deeply into the arguments of both 9/11 Truthers and 9/11 conspiracy theory debunkers. Some of the latter relied on simplistic arguments, but, luckily for me, others were more thorough.

While exploring the 9/11 Truth movement, I discovered that some (though by no means all) 9/11 Truthers were also proponents of a lot of John Birch Society talking points and were also trying to revive the "Satanic ritual abuse" scare. (See the separate thread "Satanic ritual abuse" grand conspiracy claims.)

I'm aware that it isn't just David Icke, but that doesn't mean there's anything credible to the notion that aliens have visited earth or involve themselves with human affairs.

I believe the word were is doing some heavy lifting in your claim about these people having once been respected within their fields because generally speaking, peddling nonsense tends to ruin one's reputation as an expert.

The entire ancient aliens/chariots of the gods community should be viewed with the same credibility as the Marvel cinematic universe. It's just speculative navel-gazing being passed off as though it has a factual basis when it simply doesn't, meant to appeal to contrarian "thinkers" who refuse to engage in any actual critical thinking about the claims being made.

Can you name some specific examples of such people who are/were well-respected in some relevant field of knowledge?

Periods of extreme, multifaceted crises have happened many times before in human history. They seem to be just a part of the human condition. No need for a unified grand conspiracy to explain them.


The Possessed is a novel. Fiction. Not likely to be evidence of anything in real life, except perhaps evidence of the author's beliefs and culture.

Nope. Most scientists still believe that COVID is of purely natural origin, although the "lab leak hypothesis" cannot be ruled out. See the Wikipedia article on COVID-19 lab leak theory. The "lab leak hypothesis" has been pushed mainly by politicians and right wing political commentators, not by scientists.


What specific kinds of side-effects are you talking about? (Most vaccines do have some side-effects, which should be minor compared to the symptoms of the disease being vaccinated against.)

Please link to a specific article containing links to actual studies.

I notice that you've cited a Roman Catholic source, rather than a relatively neutral source (like Wikipedia) or a self-described Luciferian source.

On another related topic: Are you familiar with the Taxil hoax?

Well, I agree that there is a link between what's going on in Gaza and what's going on in Ukraine. A lot of the Zionist warmongers in the Anglosphere who have been supporting Israel's genocide in Gaza are the same people who have been provoking and smearing Russia for years on end (that's not to say Putin had to react in the way he did).

And with Russian forces focusing on Ukraine, the position of Bashar Assad's forces in Syria was weakened, which has clearly worked to Israel's benefit.

With covid, although I am convinced the mainstream narrative is nonsense, and although the US Department of Defense was clearly involved in the 'pandemic response' (to a greater degree than most people realize, I think), I personally don't think it belongs with the Ukraine and Gaza wars as part of a unified agenda.

RFK Jr for instance will call out the mainstream covid narrative for the nonsense that it was, but when it comes to US foreign policy, he's still a Zionist poodle.

Last edited by slam_thunderhide on 09 Dec 2024, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm amazed so many people on WrongPlanet still don't seem to question any aspect of the mainstream covid narrative, beyond conceding that maybe a lab leak was involved. I know the censorship around all this has been pretty bad, but still.

Here you can find links to 1,000 scientific studies on the harms caused by covid vaccines.
https://www.zinglepathy.com/2022/03/ove ... -that.html

People might respond to complain that zinglepathy is a natuorapthic website (and I would advise them to ignore for now the stuff about 5G in the covering essay), but the studies linked to are from sites like pubmed, the lancet, and sciencedirect.

Epidemiology and immunology are among the most-mature and best-organized branches of medical science. I'm inclined to believe that epidemiologists and immunologists know what they are doing.

(An example of a much less mature -- and much less well-organized -- branch of medical science is psychiatry. The human brain is such a complex organ that a lot is still not known about how it works or how to treat malfunctions thereof. But even psychiatry has advanced a lot over the past 50 years.)


I haven't looked at all of them, but, as far as I can tell so far, a lot of these papers appear to be interim studies dealing with collections of case reports.

Here in the U.S.A., case reports would most likely be collected from the Vaccine Averse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Some excerpts from the VAERS FAQ (bolding and underlining mine):


To extract meaningful patterns from the VAERS (or similar databases in other countries), scientists first need to make preliminary studies counting instances of a given type of "adverse event." Then, statistical analysis is needed in order to determine whether a given type of "adverse event" is really a side-effect of the vaccine or just coincidence, and, if a side-effect, how likely. Then, assuming a given symptom is determined to be a possible side effect of the vaccine, this fact must be weighed against the likelihood that a person who catches the disease itself (which the vaccine is supposed to prevent or mitigate) will have the same symptom, and to a more or less severe degree. Thus there are likely to be lots of papers written about any given type of "adverse event" before its actual impact on vaccine safety can be fully evaluated.

For more info about how the system works, see other pages listed on the CDC's page on Vaccine Safety Systems.


I wouldn't trust this site not to cherry-pick preliminary studies.

Anyhow, some of the issues mentioned in some of those papers are discussed on the following page of the CDC site: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Vaccine Safety.

Two specific rare but scary side-effects, myocarditis and pericarditis, are also discussed on the CDC site here: Clinical Considerations: Myocarditis and Pericarditis after Receipt of COVID-19 Vaccines Among Adolescents and Young Adults. But it should also be noted that myocarditis is much more likely to be a symptom of COVID-19 itself and can even be a (rare) symptom of the common cold. According to the Mayo Clinic's page on Myocarditis:


See also Cardiac Complications After SARS-CoV-2 Infection and mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination — PCORnet, United States, January 2021–January 2022 on the CDC site.

Another side effect discussed on the page Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Vaccine Safety is Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS). The risk of GBS was deemed to be unacceptably high for one of the earliest COVID vaccines, J&J/Janssen, which was therefore discontinued.

I can understand being wary of mRNA vaccines, given that mRNA is a completely new vaccine technology. Fortunately there is now a non-mRNA alternative, Noravax, about which see Novavax's COVID-19 Vaccine: Your Questions Answered on the Yale Medicine website.

For some general info about the current vaccines, see What to Know About the Updated 2024-2025 COVID Vaccines, also on the Yale Medicine website.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 10 Dec 2024, 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

In what ways do you believe the DoD was involved, besides what is discussed on the following page?

- Department of Defense Contributions to the U.S. Covid-19 Response, at Home and Abroad by Thomas Cullison and J. Stephen Morrison, Center for Strategic & International Studies, December 16, 2021.

Here, in the separate thread Baby Boomers and how we/they are perceived in today's world:

Depends what kind of "conspiracy theorizing." Yes, the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories started out as a left wing thing.

But, back in the 1960's, the main purveyor of fears about "the Illuminati" was the John Birch Society, a right wing org. Then, in the early 1970's, the JBS's claims about "the Illuminati" were further embellished by evangelical Christian parachurch grifters like Mike Warnke and eventually, in the 1980's and early 1990's, became a central part of the Satanic ritual abuse scare.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 10 Dec 2024, 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

When I was in Buenos Aires in 1979, I saw the Protocols of the Elders of Zion being sold openly on the street. People in North America don't fully appreciate how mainstream the ideas in that book are in a European Catholic society like Argentina. I think the rapid rise of Anti-Zionism in today's world largely began with those ideas.

I have my own conspiracy theory that I'd never be able to prove. I think that after WWII, there were groups of influential people in Europe who, although happy to see Germany defeated, were nevertheless disappointed that Hitler's Final Solution was never realized. I think they became involved in the establishment of the United Nations. How else to explain the creation of the UNWRA?

Interesting, but not too much of a surprise to me. A Jewish man I used to know who had been to Europe once told me that bigotry against Jews is still quite strong there, compared to the U.S.A.


I don't agree.

It is certainly true that some folks with a general hatred of Jews will hide behind anti-Zionism, but I don't think that's the primary root of anti-Zionism.

Some people who really dislike Jews might even be pro-Zionist, in the hope that Jews would all move to Israel. (This is one of the reasons why many Jews opposed Zionism before World War II. They feared that they might be forced to move to Israel.)

Anyhow, by "today's world" do you mean the entire post-World War II era, or just this past year?

If you mean just this past year: Do you really think Israel's behavior in Gaza hasn't been highly problematic, to say the least???

If you mean the entire post-World War II era: I think the main reason for "the rapid rise of Anti-Zionism in today's world" is that the 1950's were an era of de-colonization. Before then, it had been thought to be more-or-less the natural order of things that the entire world was dominated by people of European origin, who could push everyone else around as we pleased. But then, in the late 1950's and early 1960's, a lot of former European colonies became independent. So, it was no longer acceptable for a bunch of people of mostly European and/or American origin to go settle somewhere and expel a majority of the indigenous people.

I think there would have been much less trouble, for everyone in the region, if the early Zionists had stuck with draining swamps in Palestine's coastal plain and "making the desert bloom" in the Negev/Naqab, instead of trying to take over the entire country. Had they stuck with making previously under-utilized land more usuable, instead of buying up already-existing farms and villages from absentee landlords and evicting large numbers of people therefrom, then they could have formed an alliance with Palestinian Christians to turn all of Palestine into a multi-confessional democracy similar to Lebanon. (This hasn't worked very well in Lebanon, but mainly because of spillover from Israel. It would likely have worked much better in Lebanon too if Israel/Palestine had been set up to work similarly.)


That may well be true. But, right after World War II, there was enough sympathy for Jews, and for Zionists, that the UN did vote to accept the Israel/Palestine partition plan.


Sheesh! So you really don't think the obvious injustices of the Nakba had anything to do with it???

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 10 Dec 2024, 1:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.