Counteracting transphobia

Page 2 of 3 [ 40 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

cyberdora
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2025
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 860
Location: Australia

23 Mar 2025, 4:37 pm

MAGA hate anti-hate laws that stop hate speech against hate.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 31,225
Location: Right over your left shoulder

23 Mar 2025, 4:38 pm

How ironic Htaxu3, given how much absurdity your posts contain.

You're more like a heavy-handed satire of a Trump supporter than a serious person with serious views.

_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Make America Great (Depression) Again

Carbonhalo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,915
Location: Musoria

23 Mar 2025, 4:39 pm

I don't understand what it is you're so scared of.

cyberdora
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2025
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 860
Location: Australia

23 Mar 2025, 4:41 pm

^^^ gender intersectionality apparently

BTDT
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 61
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 7,666

23 Mar 2025, 4:51 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Agreed that they have not been harmed by the onerous laws, but in what way have they been helped?

They can now come out of the closet to their wives and girlfriends and get the support they need to leave the house when cross dressed.

Sales associates are now quite helpful to cross dressers. Nobody is surprised that a cross dresser wants to spend money when dressed as a woman.

It is no longer something one can remain blissfully ignorant about.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,520
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Mar 2025, 5:21 pm

Htaxu3 wrote:

Right, like being left-handed is anywhere near at the long-term level of seriousness or impact on peoples' lives like it is encouraging people to start switching their gender and going through surgeries and hormones. I find this analogy absolutely hilarious when it's brought up, like just because now apparently because there's "more lefthandedness", also all things trans from the big woke system has to be accepted no-questions-asked as well. Absurd.

The point of the analogy is that a conspiracy theory is not necessary to explain the apparent increase in numbers of some stigmatized category of people once they start to become less stigmatized.

For more info about why your conspiracy theory is unfounded, please see my post here.

Anyhow what was going on this past decade, until the recent flurry of anti-trans hate, is NOT that otherwise perfectly ordinary people were suddenly being "encouraged" to "start switching their gender and going through surgeries and hormones," but that people (including young people, at least to some extent) who already had a longstanding deeply-felt need to do so were finally being allowed to do so.

_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 31,225
Location: Right over your left shoulder

23 Mar 2025, 6:17 pm

BTDT wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

Agreed that they have not been harmed by the onerous laws, but in what way have they been helped?

Onerous laws aren't contributing positively to the outcomes you're describing though.

The increase in tolerance that allows for the outcomes you're describing is being opposed through the onerous laws that Mona is condemning meanwhile you appear to be giving that backlash the credit for what they're literally a backlash against.

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,152
Location: Long Island, New York

23 Mar 2025, 9:28 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

1) As has happened several times before in American politics, a wave of Black community activism inspired waves of grassroots activism in other marginalized communities too. In 2010 to 2015, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement inspired more activism in other marginalized subcultures including the LGBTQ+ community.

(The rise of BLM, in turn, was a consequence of two technological developments: (1) the advent of cell phone video cameras plus (2) YouTube, which made it much easier, than ever before, for ordinary people to document police brutality.)

2) The wave of LGBTQ+ community activism resulted in a wave of mass media coverage, not only in news but also in entertainment, e.g. in the Netflix series [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Is_the_New_Black]Orange Is the New Black

BLM and LGBTQ+ issues rising to mainstream prominence seemed to be concurrent events rather than one sparking another. I think the spark for both was Occupy Wall Street.

_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman

kokopelli
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,522
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind

23 Mar 2025, 9:39 pm

It always appears to me that people having sex change operations expect them to make dramatic improvements in their lives. However, they are the same people after the operation as before and it didn't improve anything.

That said, if someone wants to pay for it themselves, I couldn't care less. I object to it strongly when they want everyone else to pay for their surgery and continued treatment.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,520
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Mar 2025, 10:05 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

BLM and LGBTQ+ issues rising to mainstream prominence seemed to be concurrent events rather than one sparking another. I think the spark for both was Occupy Wall Street.

That's possible. Nevertheless, LGBTQ+ activists clearly did steal some ideas from BLM, including (for a brief time, at least) the ill-fated word "woke."

Htaxu3
Snowy Owl

Joined: 13 Mar 2025
Gender: Male
Posts: 132
Location: France

23 Mar 2025, 10:38 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Htaxu3 wrote:

"Conspiracy Theory"... lol There have been a bunch of polls in Western countries in recent years showing figures like 40% of ages 18-24 are saying they are LGBTQ or "Not Straight". This seems far more dramatic than just slightly more closeted people feel they can come out of the closet, and what is being described here and what sounds benign on-paper.

Everyone and 2/5ths of the youth in the country suddenly becoming LGBTQ now seems much more of an extreme change in society than something like the curve of Left-Handedness that I've heard pushed several times before in response to this... which no one for a long time, maybe since 1900, has ever cared if you are Left-Handed or not, and I doubt anyone ever really cared about this. It's like I said, going in for transgender sex-changes and hormones; way more of an extreme proposition being foisted on people and society any-which-way than if one is left-handed.

My larger premise on this is that if liberals think there is no longer a barrier to something happening like electing a Drag Queen President as long as they are proper-liberal and Democratic, then they shouldn't be surprised when these barriers equally fall the other way and there is no barrier to regular people electing someone like Trump as President who has no filter and represents them in this way.

To me though it's just always been weird... society may ultimately move on, but it's not my thing, TBH.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,520
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Mar 2025, 10:55 pm

kokopelli wrote:

Wrong. For many transgender people, it has dramatically improved their mental health and even saved their lives. See, for example:

- Gender-affirming Care Saves Lives, Columbia University Department of Psychiatry, March 30, 2022
- The benefits of gender-affirming care, University of Washington, School of Public Health, March 31, 2023.
- What the Science on Gender-Affirming Care for Transgender Kids Really Shows, Scientific American, May 12, 2022
- Gender-affirming care is life-saving, research says. Why is it so controversial?, USA Today, November 1, 2023.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,520
Location: New York City (Queens)

23 Mar 2025, 11:11 pm

Htaxu3 wrote:

"Conspiracy Theory"... lol There have been a bunch of polls in Western countries in recent years showing figures like 40% of ages 18-24 are saying they are LGBTQ or "Not Straight".

What is your source for that 40% figure?

Googling for statistics, I found the following so far: Nearly 1 in 5 young adults say they're not straight, global survey finds, NBC News, June 9, 2021.

That's 20%, not 40%.

Not a surprise at all. Forty years ago, when a lot fewer LGBTQ+ people were out of the closet than today, I remember it commonly being said that LGBTQ+ people were 10% of the population. So an apparent growth to 20%, due to a reduction in stigma, is not surprising at all.

Of those 20%, the majority are probably bisexual and/or gender nonconforming, not fully gay or trans. I'll look for more statistics later.

Htaxu3
Snowy Owl

Joined: 13 Mar 2025
Gender: Male
Posts: 132
Location: France

23 Mar 2025, 11:28 pm

There's a ton on this... with YouGov with this 18-24 age range in Britain, it's as startlingly high as 50% saying they're LGBTQ.... I think it's something definitely way more insidious than just "oh, it's more closeted people coming out of the closet; more left-handed people can be left-handed, etc"... What the heck is going on ?

Even if it was just 1 in 5, that seems like way too many than before and like an eye-catching increase to where one should be asking questions as to what is going on, like if they are putting something in the water or something. Or is everyone suddenly saying they're gay because it's an advantage to get jobs with the Labour Party or Democratic Party like they're Harry Sisson ? Who knows ?

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/12999-half-young-not-heterosexual

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,152
Location: Long Island, New York

24 Mar 2025, 12:28 am

Htaxu3 wrote:

There have been a bunch of polls in Western countries in recent years showing figures like 40% of ages 18-24 are saying they are LGBTQ or "Not Straight". This seems far more dramatic than just slightly more closeted people feel they can come out of the closet, and what is being described here and what sounds benign on-paper.

Everyone and 2/5ths of the youth in the country suddenly becoming LGBTQ now seems much more of an extreme change in society than something like the curve of Left-Handedness that I've heard pushed several times before in response to this... which no one for a long time, maybe since 1900, has ever cared if you are Left-Handed or not, and I doubt anyone ever really cared about this. It's like I said, going in for transgender sex-changes and hormones; way more of an extreme proposition being foisted on people and society any-which-way than if one is left-handed.

My larger premise on this is that if liberals think there is no longer a barrier to something happening like electing a Drag Queen President as long as they are proper-liberal and Democratic, then they shouldn't be surprised when these barriers equally fall the other way and there is no barrier to regular people electing someone like Trump as President who has no filter and represents them in this way.

To me though it's just always been weird... society may ultimately move on, but it's not my thing, TBH.

I can’t know what it was like France when you grew up. I can just discuss what it was like in America back then. What I said was beyond people in closet I was wondering about people who are not straight and not cis who literally thought they were straight or cis. For one thing cisgender was not a term nor a concept because ones gender and ones sexuality were considered the same thing, all drag queens were considered homosexuals. There were people we called tomboys. They were girls who had “boy” interests and did “boys” things. How many of them were not cis and did not know it?

The surveys for the U.S. I have looked at show 25 to 30 percent of gen z identified as LGBTQ+. This might be misleading. The Q can mean questioning. Questioning expands the amount of positives. Questioning and figuring out things and experimenting is what young people do. While it was not talked about when I was in college/university people experimented, people got drunk and stoned and ended up bed with members of the same sex. This was not new Kinsey back in the late ‘40s a time of much stricter sexual mores reported that 37 percent of males reported having at least one homosexual experience. Kinsey did not study gender identity.

As far as society moving on and not being your thing get used to it. The older you get the more that will happen.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,520
Location: New York City (Queens)

24 Mar 2025, 12:59 am

Htaxu3 wrote:

There's a ton on this... with YouGov with this 18-24 age range in Britain, it's as startlingly high as 50% saying they're LGBTQ....

Looking at the link you posted (dated August 16, 2015): "1 in 2 young people say they are not 100% heterosexual" (emphasis mine). But being "not 100% heterosexual" is NOT the same thing as identifying as LGBTQ+. Most of these "not 100% heterosexual" young folks still think of themselves as (predominantly) heterosexual, though they may have an occasional same-sex fantasy or sexual experience. According to the accompanying graph, 22% of 18 to 24 year-olds are at level 1 on the Kinsey scale (where level 0 is 100% heterosexual and level 6 is 100% gay or lesbian):

Googling the search string "YouGov 18-24 age range in Britain percentage LGBTQ," I also found the following more recent page: One in five young people identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual (July 03, 2019) -- i.e. only 20%. This is a survey of how people actually identify, with the vast majority of this 20% being bisexual. This article also notes that the percentage of people who identify as exclusively gay or lesbian has actually decreased.

None of this is surprising. When being gay/lesbian is highly stigmatized, the vast majority of bisexuals will identify as heterosexual, because most bisexuals can function as heterosexuals. Also, when being gay/lesbian is highly stigmatized, some lesbians and gay men tend to be suspicious of bisexuals as potential traitors to the gay/lesbian community, with the result that gay-leaning bisexuals tend to identify as exclusively gay. Both these tendencies fall away as being gay becomes less stigmatized.

Page 2 of 3 [ 40 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

Counteracting transphobia Post Reply New Topic

Counteracting transphobia