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Bluesummers
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16 Feb 2008, 8:51 am

While very justified, I don't think we'll ever be able to sue. We're the minority in this World, and those ignorant bastards couldn't care less. Not only that, but people with AS seem to be very good natured...and I don't think our kind ways would match up well against the overwhelming numbers of evil people out there.

They're very greedy, and wouldn't give us our peace. Maybe in a hundred years or so, though by then they'd just say sorry and expect that to justify all the things we've gone through.


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IdahoAspie
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16 Feb 2008, 12:54 pm

roguetech wrote:
This mentality is scary. In prinicple I agree (like with IdahoAspie's case), but it's not called an invisible disability for nothing.

The same issues can (and are) brought up about workplace discrimination. If a company hires someone who is AS, can the AS person be a d-head and not be fired? If a company hires someone with ADD, can the person basically not work? How hard would it be for someone to fake a pysch test, or just plain bribe a psycholoist for a false diagnosis? Considering you dont have to disclose your condition, and can even be diagnosed after the hire, the potential for abuse is horrendous.

Yes, some requirements are reasonable, but our society has zero track record for stopping at reasonable. Personally, I think it's unreasonable that an existing facitily be required to put in ramps and expand bathroom size for wheelchairs. If a place is small enough, there's no way to expand a bathroom and still have room. Indeed, if a facility is efficiently designed to existing standards, ANY decrease in profitable space can cause serious harm. The ADA is real hell on mom and pop places. It can easily cost tens of thousands to retro-activily redesign facilities in something as simple as a one room hair-dresser. We tend to think about government buildings or WalMart, but where I live, they said every bathroom must meet minimum handicap access standards, AND every restaurant and gas-station must provide a publically accessible bathroom. Not nice to a little pay-only type gas-station.

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I think reasonable accomodations are the concern here. If there is a light bulb that stores, cars, malls, offices, grocery stores use for athetics,
This is a good example... A "reasonable" replacement, with our society, could be twice as expensive. It could require half as many man-hours to produce (with the additional cost in scarcity of resources). It could have a detrimental effect on the environment. And yet, because 1% of society has an increased chance of seizures from flickering, we effectively outlaw the more efficient bulbs, cause untold damage to the environment, waste natural resources, put people out of work, and hurt small businesses. Society tends to err on the side of unreasonable rather than reasonable, once the ball starts rolling.


My happiness would greatly improve if society just made the accomodations that don't really cost anything moneywise. The problem that small businesses have is that the people who are legally able to make ADA regulations can pretty much charge whatever they want. There should caps on the costs.

My other problem is, I take people all around Boise Idaho in Wheelchairs. And you would very surprised at the number of brand new multi-million dollar medical facilities that are not wheel chair friendly, not wheel chair access. I know putting in automatic doors for mom and pop small medical places in old buildings is no thing. But if your business has elevators, a giant water fountain in the parking lot, or inside the building, you can install a decent wheel chair ramp and an automatic door.

I think a big improvement for just small businesses would be just to buy a $1 door stop, or go find a rock, that people can use to hold the door open so they can go through. It is hard to hold a door open and pull a wheel chair through a narrow doorway.

Also, many waiting rooms don't have a place for a wheel chair, I have to stack chairs for a place for them to park and wait. These are things that don't cost money and would accomodate a huge percentage of their clients. Also, people talk to me, instead of the client when I bring them in, as though they stupid just because they are in a wheel chair. Arrg! Makes me angry!



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16 Feb 2008, 1:04 pm

KristaMeth wrote:
IdahoAspie wrote:
If buildings were not wheelchair accessable, if they said, No People of color not welcome, or they said no women need apply, people would speak out, boycott, and even sue.

But for some reason, it seems to be OK to advantage of people that are Autistic, because of their good nature, or inability to understand someone is taking advantage of them for purposes of profit, labor, or even sex. Yet, we do not sue these people. Why not?

Isn't the way to make these people not discriminate and hold them accountable to following the American Disabilities Act, to sue them?

I for one think that if started suing people for there mistreat of us, people would not mistreat us so much?

What do you think? How many companies can you think to sue because they discriminated against you?



This is a hard subject for me. On the one hand, I'm adamant about not being walked all over or taking advantage of. Adamant about putting people in their place when they do, letting them know that they made a huge mistake. But on the other hand there are so many frivolous lawsuits out there that nowadays when someone sues it's very hard to take them seriously. People sue for fame, people sue because they think they can get filthy rich.

I want to point out that I do think crippled persons and people with AS are very different. America is still in it's infancy in relation to making public places disability-friendly. I understand that bright lights or loud noises can bother an autistic, but we need to understand that not every place is catering to every disability, and we can't just sue them for it. Can you imagine what the world would be like if every business was expected to cater to people with OCD? Every product must always have labels facing forward, rulers would be needed to stock shelves, everything would be alphabetized. People with germ phobias? Sinks and soap in every aisle. Not to mention that eventually, trying to cover all disabilities and disorders, things would begin to clash.

I think people with disabilities should have understanding like businesses should. Not every business has the means to offer 6 months of job training for people with AS so that they can become well adjusted, etc. And I respect that.

I think there are much more productive ways of bringing about change, becoming noticed, without suing everyone's pants off. I don't want people to associate that type of behavior with me when I tell them I have AS.

I read about your experience in the hospital, and to me it just reeks of a busy place, busy people, trying to rush you and get you out of their hair. Sounds like you didn't have a lot of choice and kind of got swept up into everything considering the pain you were in physically and how overwhelmed you were with the paperwork. You have a debt now that you may not have had, had someone actually listened to what you were saying or understood something about autism. Your lawsuit seems just to me ('cause I know that means so much to you ;] ).

I think for many instances, businesses or places like hospitals, libraries, schools, should be required to have a general education about disabilities and how to deal with people with them. I think this would be a better start than just running around suing everyone.


I think you have some good points, and I think you are very insightful. I do agree, that libraries, schools, hospitals, and other public agencies that deal with others should have someone on staff that is accessable and knowneldgable of basic disabilites so they can be of some assistance.

However, I don't think they will do that unless their is a financial incentive for them to do so. The only way I could get the University I attended to comply with ADA was is they were threatened to lose millions in federal funding. But they TRY to get away with not complying as much as possible. They did some pretty bad things, like combining the positions of legal advisor to the president of the university and the person you are suppose to make legal complaints to regarding disabilities against the university into the same position. So obviously, she was torn between defending the University, or defending the student, but obviously, had to always side with the university because that was also her job, to defend the university.



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16 Feb 2008, 1:09 pm

We should all sue Autism Speaks. :twisted:


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IdahoAspie
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16 Feb 2008, 2:12 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
We should all sue Autism Speaks. :twisted:


For what?



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16 Feb 2008, 2:24 pm

Am hate it when the people who run shops say they are disability friendly,and other people [often who have physical/mobility disabilities] say the same thing to.
No they are not disability friendly,they do not meet disability standards,they are only adapted to the needs of wheel chair users and those with HI or VI-that is not the entire disability spectrum.
There are some adaptions made for one disability which then stops various other disabilities from being able to access the service,an example of this is on public transport,which is already torture treatment-companies that add overloading speaking reminders of when every stop is coming up,and when next one comes up.
They are MD inducing,but luckily are not very common on public transport,and not for am anyway as am rarely use PT.
Another example is the raised lumps all over a pavement outside shops,which are for VI people;wheel chair users,people with mobility/balance problems etc can fall over on these easy.

Am do not think it's fair if they can do adaptions to their place for people with autism [most people have only referred to AS here] but don't,although will do anything for physical disabilities,so don't see what is wrong with sueing to get something done if they refuse to do anything when they are able to.


All for autism related reasons,am would like to have music turned off in shops that don't have anything to do with music [eg,they don't sell it],non flicker/fluor. lights,wider isles,if they have squashed so many together to fit more crap in,a cue which people who only have a few items and are not paying by credit card can use,not constant use of a crippling PA system,security guards given autism/asperger awareness training [it is common for auties and aspies to be stalked by security guards due to being pre judged as bad people],a shoppers rules list [for big shops] that ask shoppers to not-leave trolleys blocking isles,or stand there blocking the isles themselves whilst with other people [if are non verbal,it's a lot harder-if there's sensory stuff going on behind,am have had no choice just to get past people because they were ignoring and have had abuse for it,staff apologise for am which am dont want them to do given that they saw am waiting and ignored],parents allowing their younger,screaming children to wander isles on their own...


Equal disability rights for Autism and Aspergers,if they can make accomodations for a wheel chair user for having a mobility problem,they can do the same thing for an autie or aspie who is impaired by a places lack of adaption.


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16 Feb 2008, 2:28 pm

Suing is horrible. It can ruin people's lives.

I am NT and I have been bullied rather badly in my life, partly because I am rather naive and trusting. People will treat other people like s**t, AS or otherwise. We all have to deal with it, and I don't think that having a disability is an excuse to cash in on it.


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roguetech
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16 Feb 2008, 5:21 pm

To some extent, what you want is simply an awareness. While that's all well and good, to be blunt it's in short supply. I sometimes wonder if there isn't a finite amount :P

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security guards given autism/asperger awareness training [it is common for auties and aspies to be stalked by security guards due to being pre judged as bad people]
It's also common for them hassle everyone, and tazer everything they happen to take an exception to. It'd be nice if they realized that just because someone isn't in a wheelchair, that doesn't give them a right to be more rude or outright hostile, but then who would they bully?



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16 Feb 2008, 5:28 pm

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=zIllRdSzSug[/youtube]


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16 Feb 2008, 5:35 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=zIllRdSzSug[/youtube]


I thoroughly enjoyed that video. Yes, stupid and amazing, the things some people will legitimately complain about.


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16 Feb 2008, 5:58 pm

There is almost no way to accomodate EVERYBODY in life--- especially business-wise. You can make something more acceptable to one person, but then you make it harder for someone else. It's an ongoing battle. Things have gotten better, but there is no way to perfect it or make it perfect for EVERYONE. That's life.
As far as suing goes--- there is too much of that s**t in this country. Everyone sues for every damn thing. It doesn't do much good in the end--- big businesses like Walmart can take these blows ( and they'll improve, indeed), but the little guys end up closing because they end up sued out of existence and don't have the $$$ or resources to accomodate everyone. And it doesn't foster good relations between people at all--- why can't people ASK for improvements, or just try being nice for a change instead of immediately calling in the lawyers? Everyone has to sue over everything. If I were to sue for everytime I had my feelings hurt or felt wronged by someone, I might be rich. But what does that say about me as a person? Who would want to be anywhere near me? Everyone would avoid me for fear I'd sue them. And that is the way it is with everyone today--- everyone sues everyone!



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16 Feb 2008, 6:12 pm

IdahoAspie wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
We should all sue Autism Speaks. :twisted:


For what?


For the crappy videos that they show.


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IdahoAspie
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16 Feb 2008, 6:33 pm

Phagocyte wrote:
Suing is horrible. It can ruin people's lives.

I am NT and I have been bullied rather badly in my life, partly because I am rather naive and trusting. People will treat other people like sh**, AS or otherwise. We all have to deal with it, and I don't think that having a disability is an excuse to cash in on it.


I do. I think when people cash in on us, we should get a peice of it back. People that bully people and take advantage of people with disabilities and ruin their lives, making their lives hell, SHOULD have their lives ruined too. Why should the bully win?

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IdahoAspie
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16 Feb 2008, 6:40 pm

skahthic wrote:
There is almost no way to accomodate EVERYBODY in life--- especially business-wise. You can make something more acceptable to one person, but then you make it harder for someone else. It's an ongoing battle. Things have gotten better, but there is no way to perfect it or make it perfect for EVERYONE. That's life.
As far as suing goes--- there is too much of that sh** in this country. Everyone sues for every damn thing. It doesn't do much good in the end--- big businesses like Walmart can take these blows ( and they'll improve, indeed), but the little guys end up closing because they end up sued out of existence and don't have the $$$ or resources to accomodate everyone. And it doesn't foster good relations between people at all--- why can't people ASK for improvements, or just try being nice for a change instead of immediately calling in the lawyers? Everyone has to sue over everything. If I were to sue for everytime I had my feelings hurt or felt wronged by someone, I might be rich. But what does that say about me as a person? Who would want to be anywhere near me? Everyone would avoid me for fear I'd sue them. And that is the way it is with everyone today--- everyone sues everyone!


OK, so you think people that have tried asking 3, 4, 100 times for a basic easy accomodation from someone that is getting federal dollars to supply, should just pay $10000s of dollars because they don't want to sue?

Come'on, people have to eat, and if they are being treated unfairly, and not allowed the same servies they need to live a decent life, and nobody is helping them out, why shouldn't they sue?

I think we have a court system in order to avoid the physical, which would be the only other way I get someone to listen to me after asking 500 times.



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16 Feb 2008, 7:03 pm

I always thought about opening a restaraunt or store where the lights are dimmer, theirs only soothing noises in the backround, nice and open, every corner you turn, theres a room where you can go collect yourself... Or a restaraunt were it has a part of it secluded for people who are mentally disabled, where everything accomondates their needs, and so you can be yourself, and not have to worry about the stares or the people talking about you behind your back. I would do anything for all of that!


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16 Feb 2008, 7:22 pm

Age1600 wrote:
I always thought about opening a restaraunt or store where the lights are dimmer, theirs only soothing noises in the backround, nice and open, every corner you turn, theres a room where you can go collect yourself... Or a restaraunt were it has a part of it secluded for people who are mentally disabled, where everything accomondates their needs, and so you can be yourself, and not have to worry about the stares or the people talking about you behind your back. I would do anything for all of that!


I think those are good thoughts, but I have a disabled aunt, and now, people love her, and treat her as a loved one in the community. But in the 1980s and eariler, people did stare at her all the time. I think that is rude. But, I am not in favor of putting people with a noticable disability in a seperate room to make everyone more comfortable. If someone doesn't want to be seen eating dinner, they can always eat at home. I think it is good for people to be exposed to what is not considered everyday looks and behavior.

That is just my thought