New girl in my office

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I remember you said that your disease is something you can die from. So I don't view it as just "disability" to me it looks far more serious. It was that comment about dying that made me think having kids is riskier for you than for others.

As far as putting off kids till I am financially stable, that is something I "used to" think in the past -- but the problem is that I am already 40. I can comfort myself that my past thesis advisor had kids at 48 since he married someone 10 years younger but it seems unlikely for me especially since I even have trouble attracting women my own age. So I guess I hope to find someone who will be okay to have kids in my current situation.

UPDATE: Well, this semester I *am*, in fact, in a position of power over her. Most graduate students are either TA-s or graders. What this means is that the professor is doing the lectures, while the graduate student is doing recitation sections (if he is a TA) or grades homework (if he is a grader). Well, the TA grades homework too, so I guess TA has two jobs, while grader has just one. The professor, on the other hand, grades the exams. In any case, when the graduate student is a TA, then he is a TA of only undergrad classes; but when he is a grader, then he might end up being grader over graduate classes. Therefore, a grad student can not become a TA over another grad student, but he *can* become a grader over another grad student.

Long story short, this semester I am a grader, and that girl is taking one of the classes I am grader of. So I guess the whole point of this thread became moot as far as this particular semester is concerned. I don't think close interaction between the student and someone who can affect the student's grade is allowed.

I guess this sort of leads to another question: how can grad student interact with each other anyway, even if they aren't each other's graders: I mean they can't predict the future, so how do they know they won't *become* a grader of another student next semester or next year or what not.

I guess part of the answer might be the fact that a grader is someone who has already taken that class. So, statistically speaking, an older student is more likely to be a grader of a newer student rather than the other way around -- and, therefore, the friendship between the students that started the same year is the "safest" one. So I guess from this perspective I could have predicted that I was more likely to become her grader than the other way around, since she is the first year student and I am the fourth year student.

But there are always exceptions. For example, even though Abstract Algebra is a first year class, I kept postponing it till just now -- and I happened to be in the same class as her. So its kind of ironic: I am her classmate in two of the classes (Abstract Algebra and Algebraic Geometry) and I am her grader in the other class (Riemannian geometry). Now, what would have happened if I were to postpone Abstract Algebra for one more year? Then it would have been possible for HER to become MY grader for that class next year (and no, I am not saying I am going to do it, I am just talking hypotheticals). Or here is something even more interesting. What if it were to happen that she were to take Riemannian geometry (with me as her grader) and I were to take Abstract Algebra (with her as my grader) the same exact semester? Who would be in a position of power over whom?

In any case, in some sense I am glad this happened: I guess I can stop obsessing about interaction with her for this semester and just tell myself its not allowed. So its a bit of a relief. It is still kinda painful though to see her interacting with students in the classes where she is my classmate -- that sort of refutes your point that she is an aspie and confirms the idea that she is specifically avoiding me.

P.S. No I am not engaging in biased grading -- so I won't be giving her low grades (to retaliate) or high grades (to appease). I am making sure to grade her as objectively as possible.

P.P.S. I am not saying it to justify why I will try to interact with her. I won't -- since I am not sure whether I am allowed to. I am just saying that I won't bias my grading based off of the past interaction.

This is how you should have approached the relationship in the first place. Romantic liaisons among TAs, grad students, RAs and associates working in the same unit/lab/research school is really a big risk. If you make a move and the girl thinks you are creepy then your reputation is shot among your colleagues. Even if you strike up a friendship there is a risk it doesn't work out and then you have to still see each other every day, what do you think her friends will think of you? it's not worth it.



I wouldn't get too giddy over the new found power you have over this girl. The power differential means she will be more sensitive to any sign of bias you show (whether it be be giving her lower grades or showing interest)

She could still be an aspie even if she's avoiding you on purpose. Some people who are not so skilled socially purposefully avoid others who aren't socially skilled either, especially if they're even less skilled than them, because
a) spending time with them could lead to them learning even more socially unaccepted habits
b) spending time with them could give them a reputation of more of a weirdo than they already have
c) they'd rather spend time with people who they think they can learn social rules from
d) they're working hard to learn social rules, so spending time with someone who doesn't follow those rules could set back their developement.

But of course, there's also the option that someone is an aspie and just isn't interested in your company or doesn't like you.

Now that I am her grader its different -- but since you said that is how I should have approached it even back when I wasn't her grader here are the questions pertaining to the time when I was not her grader:

1. If close interaction among fellow graduate students is not allowed, how come just yesterday -- in one of the classes where I am her classmate -- I heard her arranging meeting with some of the fellow students and they were going to call each other because they have each others phone number? In fact, thats the whole point of why I am so upset about it. If *everyone* kept distance from each other, then I really wouldn't mind it that much. But since people talk to each other *except for me* then I take it personally. And, clearly, it can't be attributed to just what you said -- because obviously they talk to each other -- so that seems to be something *about me*.

2. I asked this question before but you didn't answer since you were disracted by other things I said. So let me repeat what I asked you and I hope you can answer it this time. At the bottom of p.7 of this thread you said you are "overprotective" of the girls. So that seems like your actual concern is not to keep me from trouble but, rather, that the fact that you can't trust my intentions; you even used the word "target" when describing me "targetting" mathematicians and scientists. But then why not talk to me about my intentions openly and honestly? Could it be that the way I described my initial interaction with that girl is what made you think I am a "predator"? But you see, on my end of a line the reason the initial interaction happened the way it did is simply because I didn't think before I speak: I literally said something and thought about it a second later. But what about the predator? A predator is very calculating, he won't have flipus like that. So maybe my intentions aren't any worse than most peoples, maybe I am just having a tendency of say things before I have time to think of what I say.



I thought with my P.S. and P.P.S. comments I clarified how I *won't* do things that are inappropriate. Yet you seemed to have misread it as if I said that I will.

If she supposedly doesn't have social skills, how come in the classes where I am now her classmate she sounds like one of the more outgoing ones?

In fact, this leads to the other question. Remember the guy whom I mentioned in the beginning of this thread with whom I had facebook correspondence about her half a year ago. Well, one thing he said is that "she isn't much of a talker anyway". I then asked him "but wait a second, she was like happily chatting to all of you for an hour when you all came to her office, how can you say she isn't a talker". He then told me that they were all trying to engage her but it was all in vain. Well, I kinda have mixed feelings whether or not to believe him: on the one hand, I didn't keep a tab on who was talking when, so I don't have "hard evidence" that she talked. But on the other hand I have a general impression that yes they all talked -- if it was different it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

Now, last semester I wasn't her classmate, this semester I am (I am her grader in one class and her classmate in the other two classes -- last semester I was neither). So seeing how she talks to her classmates, do you think he purposely lied to me in order to prevent me *personally* from talking to her?

There was prior history between me and that guy -- long before she came to the department. So, three years ago, I was a TA for a certain class and I was recording grades on paper but not online. At some point I thought I lost all the grades, but I didn't, I found them a week later. But, stupidly, I sent an email to the professor I was a TA for that I lost them before I gave myself time to find them. Then the professor forwarded this email to graduate committee and they decided that I shouldn't be a TA next semester I should just grade. Then I started to argue with them that I found it, but they were reluctant to give me back the TA-ship -- but they finally did. But you see, they gave it back to me a month later. Now *during* that month I was venting to both that guy and his ex about it (and he was still good friends with his ex). One of those times when I vented to his ex I sent her "f**k you" message -- and no I wasn't mad at her, I was just mad at the department, but since it wasn't safe to cuss at people at the department but it was safe to cuss at her, I decided to cuss at her (and by the way she isn't going to that university, she is not even in that town; I met her when that guy invinted few of his graduate students to hike, including myself, and he invited his ex to come over as well). Anyway, when I cussed at her, she acted as if she was understanding about it, but she shown that email to that guy and then two weeks later that guy confronted me about it -- and at that time I already had my TA-ship back.

In any case, I wouldn't say that he became my outright enemy after that, but I would say that my interaction with him became rocky. Like for example sometimes he was trying to advise me to either do yoga or meditation to help me control my emotions -- he said that this is how he got over his bipolar. So in this respect it seems like he sympathizes. But when I tell him I don't want to do it because it because I am a Christian, and then engage in religious debate with him over it, then he gets a bit pissed. He even attacked me for my conservative views in general, particularly against gays (as it turns out both his brother and his ex-s brother are gay thats why he takes it personally). He still took me to another mountain hike few months *after* I cussed at his ex, but then he got upset at me when I didn't recognize people in the car despite them being my former classmates -- so I even asked him why is he upset that I don't recognize those people is it because he still has issues with me because of that ex of his but he said no its not because of his ex he just "doesn't understand" why I wouldn't recognize faces of people that were my classmates. By the way that was the last mountain hike he invited me to, and it was 2 years and a half ago. He invited me to total of two hikes: the first was the beginning Fall 2016, which is where I met his ex, then I cussed at his ex in Spring 2017, and then he invited me to the second hike in Fall 2017 where I didn't recognize my classmates, and then he didn't invite me anymore.

Now, as far as that girl goes, like I said she just came to this department this fall. And that guy is my officemate starting from this fall as well (back then he wasn't my officemate, he was just in the same department). Now, when I talked to him about that girl, he said to me three things:

1. He said that when I asked that girl why she felt uncomfortable she actually answered my question and said it was because I was staring at her. But I didn't realize that she answered that question, I thought she didn't. So either I didn't hear her answer because I was too busy asking or else he just made it up. I don't know which way it is.

2. He said she was not much of a talker anyway -- and like I said it seemed to contradict what I observed where she seemed very talkative

3. When I asked for an advice how to fix it, he told me to do yoga and meditation so that I won't mess it up with *other people*. He didn't want to give any advice on how to fix with *her*.

Apart from this, *before* I talked to him -- back when that girl was in the office -- I noticed the following:

4. She saw a lot of textbooks on the shelf and she asked what are all those books. He acted like he didn't know whose books they were, instead of saying they are mine. But now contrast it with other situations where he was talking to his male friends and was telling them I am the smartest mathematician he knows (well I wouldn't agree with that assessment, but thats besides the point). So, based off of this, wouldn't he at least suspect they were my books? So maybe he didn't say they were mine since he didn't want that girl to interact with me.

5. She saw some bibles on the shelf. He said "oh yeah there are bibles around everywhere"; he didn't say they are mine. But he should have known they are mine because he had religious debates with me. So it seems like he was trying to prevent mentioning me to her in order to prevent my interaction with her.

6. If you go to earlier parts of this thread, remember how SharonB kept saying that the reason this girl distanced away is that when she offered me a cookie I refused. Well, the reason I refused is that guys fault too: after I had facebook conversation with him where he sounded quite discouraging, I wasn't in the mood of accepting a cookie from her. Now, if you compare the fact that she offered me a cookie within just FEW DAYS of that incident -- and she never offered me any cookie within subsequent *half a year*, then it seem to suggest that my refusing her cookie *did* have some additional impact. But, like I said, part of the reason I refused her cookie is because of interaction with that guy over facebook prior to that. So that would make it that guys impact too, just indirect one.

Now here is the question: Could it be that the reason he acted this particular way is because he was trying to protect her from me? In particular, he remembers how I cussed at his ex, so he decided to prevent the situation where I would cuss at the officemate by making sure I wouldn't interact with her to begin with? If so, that is really unfair for two reasons:

a) The time when I cussed at his ex was 3 years ago, I could have changed between then and now. But by being permanently isolated from society due to the mistakes I did in the past, I can't ever improve since I am permanently stuck with the consequence of those mistakes

b) Instead of addressing things directly -- like telling me to watch my temper -- he basically manipulated the situation to isolate me from her.

P.S. He is currently engaged (and the woman he is engaged with is neither his ex nor my officemate). So I am not insinuating that he is having interest in either of the girls I mentioned. I am talking more along the lines of him trying to protect them for their own good.

Having social skills and being outgoing don't always go hand in hand. Someone who is outgoing wants to interract with people and puts a lot of work in to doing so, meaning they'll talk to people often and go to places, and someone who has social skills is good at saying the right thing in the right place, to put it short. An outgoing person could very well have as poor social skills as an introvert, but because he/she gets energy out of socializing in a way an introvert doesn't, he/she has energy to try talking to people more often and is likelier to have some success than someone who rarely tries to talk to others.

However, in this woman's case, I think the point is that you're only focusing on how you see her and aren't even considering the fact that others might see her differently. You're someone who lacks social skills and doesn't have many friends, right? If that other guy you talked about this woman with isn't like that, then it makes sense that the two of you think differently of the woman's behaviour even if you both see her doing the same things. What you consider very social might not be social at all in his eyes because he knows other people who are much more so and is comparing her to them. If this is the case then he's not lying at all or trying to mislead you, he just has different experiences than you.

It might be the case that he doesn't want you interracting with her because of various reasons. I mean first, you verbally attack people who have nothing to do with whatever situation is bothering you and he knows it. Most people would want to protect the ones they care about from having to face this kind of behaviour for various reasons. While it's true that you might have changed, it's not unfair for him to do this because it would be unreasonable to demand him to put his friend at risk. Yes, you might have changed, but what if it were to turn out you didn't? If he encouraged her to be your friend and you ended up hurting her (emotionally in this case. That counts, you know), he'd feel responsible because that would mean he indirectly put her at harm's way.

Also, that guy has tried to tell you to watch yourself; he even tried to help you with coming up how to do it -and yet you turned it in to a religious debate? Or was he the one who turned it in to that? If you just said that you don't want to do yoga because of religious reasons and he started to argue against that, then he's the one who behaved badly, but if you said that you wouldn't do yoga due to religious reasons and started a monologue on why your religion wouldn't allow it, then you're also at fault. It's bad behaviour to start ranting about one's religion when it hasn't been asked; religion is a too personal topic for something like that.

You also said that he didn't want to give you advice on how to fix it with her, but have you considered a possibility that he simply didn't have any ideas on how to fix it with her and because of that, he gave you the next best advice, which was how to (hopefully) not repeat the same mistakes.

Exactly in what kind of context did he attack you about your views on people with different sexual orientation? How did he even find out that you don't accept homosexuality and such? Either way, if you have the habit of telling people that you think belonging to sexual minorities is sinning or something, can you really wonder why if people who have friends and family in this group don't want to be friends with you?

As for the guy taking you hiking, did you ever invite him anywhere? If not, then you shouldn't be expecting invitations anywhere. This stuff goes both ways, you know.

I don't see any reason why he should've mentioned that the books were yours; he probably left it out because he felt like it was irrelevant to their conversation. You felt differently it seems, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong. This one time my cousin and I were at a lounge, waiting for the doors to open so we could board a cruise ship. The place was packed and there were others really close to us and my cousin was chatting with some women when they started admiring her handbag. One that I had gotten for her from abroad for her 40th birthday to be exact, which is why I'm bringing this up. They kept going on and on about how pretty it was and asked where she'd gotten it from, and she told them it was from Stockholm. At that point I was waiting for her to mention it was a gift from me or ask me a clarification on where in Stockholm did I get it from, but she didn't. To her, it apparently wasn't relevant. Not that it mattered all that much to me either, but I would've felt nice had she mentioned it 'cause I always feel selfconcious about the gifts I get for others and end up wondering if they were good choices or not. Sure, just hearing people envy something I had gotten her was nice, but it would've been nicer if... I don't know, if I was somehow included in the conversation, maybe? Anyway, can you see where I'm going with this? The point that I'm trying to make is that even if something feels like a big deal to you, it might not feel that way to someone else, so before you look for ulterior motives, you should consider if the other person sees things the way you do or not. And since you're on the spectrum, it's very likely that most people around you see many things in a way that's different from yours.

You really need to learn that sometimes people see things differently from you.

Actually the latter is what happened. I simply told him that I didn't want to do it for religious reasons but then he started a debate.

However, to be fair, its possible that I "thought" I only gave a short answer but on the outside it sounded like I started a debate since I tend to be long winded so its possible for me to write a lot more than I thought I wrote.

The conversation where the debate started was over text and I no longer have that cell phone (I lost it and got a new one and I can't seem to recover the old text conversations).

As you are about to find, it was "out of context". So the "context" was me talking to him about two incidents -- neither of which had anything to do with sexual orientation -- until he twisted them. So here are two incidents:

1. I was at the Subway store (I don't know if you have those in Finland but its basically a store that sells those long sandwiches with meat and vegitables in them). In any case, I was standing in line behind some students and the guy said that the students have a discount. Now I said that "if I am graduate student" do I also get a discount? But he said "if you graduated then it doesn't apply", I said "I didn't say I graduated, I said I am a graduate student". But no matter how many times I repeat it, he still thought I said I "graduated". I even asked him "do you know what graduate student is" he said "apparently not". Long story short, I ended up throwing a fit that got me kicked out of that store.

2. I was taking a grayhound bus and the the bus stop was like a small grocery store basically. So I was sitting there studying. I was concnerned that the bus would come at the other side of the store and I wno't see it -- since glass window is just on one side. But they kept assuring me that yes I will see it because it will come in front of the glass window. Well, it didn't come in front of the glass window, so I was right: I didn't see it. Then the last minute they told me I am being late so I walked out, and I saw two bus drivers (one male and the other female) standing outside waiting for me. The male bus driver asked "are you sure its okay for him to get on" the female driver said "why not". The male driver said "well, he is in a bad sanitary condition and he fell asleep at the store". But like I told you I didn't fall asleep -- as a matter of fact I was the one being concerned as to whether I should sit there or get out. That, plus in combination with the sanitary remark it sounded like he thought I was homeless when I wasn't. So I got upset. In any case, after he said what he did, the female bus driver asked me "how do you feel, do you feel you can get on". Well, why should I answer her? I wasn't the one having those concerns, the male bus driver did. In any case, I responded by screaming "arghhhhh". The reason I did this is that I remember one guy at the church I am going to who is deaf and who makes "arghhh" sounds because of this. So if I do that as well, it has nothing to do with me attacking anyone, it would be my condition -- and if they don't let me on the bus because of that it means they are discriminating against my condition. In any case, they ended up not letting me in the bus because of this so I have to wait till the evening for next bus.

Now here is how sexual orientation came in When I was telling that student about indicent number 1, I said "he looked like a fag-ot" (because of his earings). But that student mixed it up in several different ways:

a) When I told that student "he looked like a fag-ot" I was saying it in the third person. So I never called that guy in the subway a fag-ot to his face. But the student confused it and decided that I called him fag-ot to his face, which I didn't. Now its true that I threw a fit there, yes (thats why I got kicked off the store). But my fit didn't involve the use of that word, or any other mention of sexual orientation. My mentioning his sexual orientation and use of that word only came *few days after that* when I was talking to that student about what happened over text messages. To clarify my point let me give you an example. Lets say I say "today is raining". Does it imply that I told my mom over todays phone conversation that it was raining? No it does not. For all you know, you are the first person to whom I am saying it to. Similarly, if I make a comment to that student about someone else's sexual orientation, that comment does not imply that I mentioned that sexual orientation to the person in question, or to anyone else for that matter.

b) Furthermore, that student also confused incident 1 and incident 2. So instead of assuming I called the guy at the indicent 1 a fag-ot (which is also not true as I explained) he assumed I called the guy at the indicent 2 a fag-ot. As far as the guy in incident 2, I never called him fag-ot behind his back either (he didn't have earings so I had no reason to assume he was one). The only guy whom I called fag-ot behind his back is the one in incident 1, but he decided it was the one in incident 2.

To make long story short, that student decided that I was kicked off the bus because I called a bus driver a fag-ot. But thats not what happened AT ALL.

The only part of what I told him that *was* somehow relevant to homosexuality was

3. I told him that one of my roommates was gay and I asked to change the rooms.

But I didn't call that roommate any names at all. If anything, I was super apologetic to him. But that student attacked me for number 3 as well.

I didn't read in detail, but still wanted to respond, so take it with a grain of salt (lunch time!). You see the woman being social. You are told she's not. Both could be true: your non-social ASD perspective and an NT social "norm" perspective. In fact Occam's razor would suggest that's so (look it up), and in general I err on the side of assuming honesty.

As I have mentioned, I relate to this woman personally --- I believe I may have mentioned that I am very outgoing, and yet I do not connect (or do not stay connected) with most people. My college friend (at the time) was very puzzled by this and interviewed my high school classmates who confirmed "everybody knew Sharon" and yet I was an Outsider. His conclusion was that it was a matter of communication: that I communicate on a totally different level than most, "brasher" he said. If you read memoirs written by ASD women, you will find among them cheerleaders --- I myself was a "one season wonder", a hit-and-run social person ---- gregarious, social, but not quite part of the group. Please consider that ASD has a stereotype that is one side: the introvert, the recluse ---- which does an injustice to the other side: the extrovert, the open books. Opposite styles, yet similar results: Outsider.

As I typed Fireblossom responded and we are saying similar things.

You have asperger's syndrome, right? If there was a person who gave off a very negative wipe and someone said with the intend to insult: "He/she has aspergers", would you be offended? If yes, then why is it okay for you to use the f -word, which is rude to use in any context by the way, about people you don't like? Where I'm from, the words for "disabled" or "autistic" are still used as insults just like the word for "gay." Why would the third be any more okay than the other two? Even if you have the kind of world view that for some reason says it's okay, you should respect others enough to keep it to yourself.

The bus drivers weren't discriminating btw, they were doing their job. I don't know how the rules go there, but here bus drivers pretty much have the duty to not let in someone who could potentially be a threath to others. If you start yelling out of the blue then you definitely come across as dangerous and they can't take such a risk, especially if you looked like someone who lives on the street. I recommend you try to learn some basic rules of society.

That is something really interesting to know, because I was assuming it wasn't the case. To me, when I do something wrong and then say "I have Asperger", I do that in order to justify myself. So I would assume that someone else who would say it would also say it as a justification. I didn't realize that it can be an insult in some circles. Could *that* be the reason why my mom tells me not to talk about my Asperger so much?

But in any case, I hope you realize that as far as homosexuality Bible has verses against it. As far as Asperger it doesn't. In fact I would say quite the opposite: Jesus kept saying how following "traditions of men" is futile. But being NT is all about following traditions of men. So, if anything, Jesus would come to the defense of aspies.

Now, I realize that this is my view and others don't have to share my view. But the point is that this guy distorted *facts*. If he were to simply say "he disapproved of the kind of text message I sent him" that would have been one thing. But the issue is that he attributed to me something I never did. In particular he decided that I called bus driver a fag-ot, which never happened. Just the fact that he thinks that what I did is wrong doesn't justify attributting to me something I never done.

By the way, I don't take it personally when people disagree with my political or religious views because I know those things are contested, thats why you don't talk about politics or religion in public. The part I take personally is if people use my views as an excuse to attack me because they happened to dislike me for a different reason. I mean, what would have happened if one of his other friends had different views than him? Would have he been as mean to his friend as he was to me? If the answer is yes then I am fine with it. But I suspect the answer is no.



Because I don't want to feel forced to live the whole year with someone I feel uncomfortable living with. I mean I was in a no-win situation as I felt uncomfortable both ways:

a) Yes I felt uncomfortable asking to be moved because my roommate is gay

b) But I also felt uncomfortable staying in that particular appartment with a gay roommate for the whole year

So what was I supposed to do?

I guess you might say that the student I had this conversation with was not friends with the gay student, and neither was he working in that dorm -- so I didn't have to volunteer that information to him. But that part has nothing to do with my being prejudiced; it has to do with my being an open book. I don't see how its any different to leave and not tell why I left or to leave and tell why I left.

By the way, I didn't tell him the name of that gay student for the simple fact that I didn't remember it (I am not that good with names). So I don't see how I would have embarassed that specific individual by telling someone else how I moved from some unspecified dorm room because of some unspecified gay student.



Well, here in the US, they actually have a complaint form that specifically mentions discrimination. Here it is: https://www.greyhound.com/en/help-and-i ... s-on-board

As far as danger, isn't this what discrimination is all about? People make assumptions that people of certain race or disability are dangerous so they don't let them in? I am sure any race discrimination is based on the assumption that black people are dangerous and any disability discrimination is based on the assumption that people with disabilities are mentally ill and therefore dangerous.

And also I mentioned an example of that deaf person in church who makes arghhh sounds without being aware of them. So what would have happened to him if he went on that bus? Would he have been kicked off? If yes, then its a discrimination.

And even if you take the yelling part away, don't you think it was a discrimination what happened to me on the first place when they were considering not taking me on the bus because I allegidly fell asleep at the bus stop which I haven't?

But here is the thing though. Even if you look at the NT criteria, we are both non-social, but I am more non-social than she is. Well, if I am more non-social than she is, then interacting with her would help me by making me less non-social. However, his statement "she isn't much of a talker anyway" was intended to mean "you didn't lose anything because she wouldn't have helped you", and this is simply not true.

Or are you saying that an NT won't even see me and her as "different degrees" since we are both so far away from norm that its too far to even differentiate?



Occam's razor says to assume the simpler explanation. But I don't see how one explanation is simpler than the other.



But then how do you know that "outgoing autistics" are really autistics -- as opposed to people suffering from a different condition (such as ADHD or bipolar) that has side effect on social skills?

Or are you saying that being outgoing is their way of coping with underlying social skills deficits -- so that the underlying thing is the same (lack of social awarenness), but the way of coping with it (either withdrawing or being outgoing) is different?

You feel left out..I get it. They can make plans with each other why can't you do the same? To me that makes it extra worse if the group of sessionals, RAs, TAs, grads and associates (whatever) are part of a clique that the group would perceive any attempt on your part to "snatch" one of their group (even if unsuccessful) would make the group exclude you even further. Group dynamics are even more complicated than one on one. I would need 5-6 pages of space to discuss this issue. The bottom line is they perceive their clicking/connecting together as organic (it's not based on some sense of justice or equal playing field) and if you haven't been accepted as part of this group then I would be even more cautious.




There's a fine line between a dating predator and a single male asking a girl out. It's all about perception on the girl's part. Infact many men have exactly the same intentions when approaching the same girl but you will be amazed how the same girl who accuses on man of harassment will basically acquiesce to anything another man wants despite both men having the same thoughts in their head and saying almost the same thing. I gave you a list of things girls want a few posts ago and personality and values come very low down the list (despite what they tell you on online forums).

I have seen very good looking men with confidence treat women they don't know with absolute nonchalance and condescending sexist language and pick up easily getting a phone number. I have also seen women approach men who look like they are wealthy and well connected.

So my point is, being perceived as a predator is contingent on many factors, all men are calculating to some extent (and women know this) but it helps to be "prince charming" if you don't want to be perceived as some random creep.

It could be why your mom doesn't want you to talk about it. Disabilities that can't be physically proven generally have a bad stigma.

But you did use the f-word in a different context, so it's no wonder if he was mad. That might be why he jumped to conclusions. Unfair on his part, but a bit more understandable since he knows you do insult people sometimes. Also, I think he very well might have treated someone else the way he treated you if that someone else had the same opinions as you.

Ah no, I don't think it was wrong to ask to change rooms (as long as you were polite about it.) I was asking why it would be okay to use the f -word and not dosabled or such as an insult. But from what I understood, your view is simply based on the old book, so I'd prefer not to discuss the subject further.

If you think you've been discriminated, make a complaint and it'll be checked based on your individual case if it was discrimination or if they acted the way they should for safety's sake. The thing is, the bus drivers can't tell right away if you're dangerous or disabled, so they need to make a desicion based on what they see. If it turns out they made a mistake, they'll be more creaful in the future. And they did do the right thing if you looked like someone who could cause trouble; usually people who don't take care of basic hygiene and grooming are addicts or such, so the risk was real as far as they know.

Again, what you should do is study the vasic rules of society.

I agree, it is not true. Great that you got that! His response is the typical NT minimization so that you "feel" better. The NT speaks a small untruth which means "I hope you feel better". The ASD is confused by the untruth and doesn't feel better. My NT father is a caring man and it's very difficult for me when he does this. I felt invalidated my entire life and am realizing recently, it's his NT way of caring. It would feel better to me if he shared a similar (even bigger) struggle, but alas, he's NT, not ASD. I could give tons of examples from my NT father and NT husband. It's a trigger for me if my NT husband says "just" --- "it's just a..."

I did not think about the NT's perception of you; just of her. That said, I agree that there are degrees and each person has their own perceived midpoint and scale. What you said could be so depending on the individual. Although I am extremely outgoing (ASD wise), I register as 51% to 49% outgoing (because of ASD traits). I have been told by NTs that I am "very quiet" until you know me (ASDs do not say this - to them I am way out there). But look at my NT husband and my ASD-like BFF and they are super introverted relative to me. I can't readily say which one is more introverted. I can say that my AS-like BFF has a BF who is introverted, but less introverted than her (b/c he's closer to where I am). So an ASD person sees me as super outgoing (as I see myself), but an NT sees me as more shy.


To me it was simpler to conclude: you both are speaking truth relative to your perceptions rather than consider that he thinks this or that and wants that you this or that and she this or that so he this or that... ack! Teasing: However, if seeing different perceptions is not "simple" for you, I guess Occam's razor wouldn't help you here. Example: I was trying to figure out the poor environment at work and my NT husband stopped me and say: it's (simply) bad management. They're not out to get me, or implying this or that... they are just bad at that function (communication, direction, etc.)


Teasing: Would you like to talk to my assessing dr? Actually we did talk about it. That ASD folks come in all types: the hypersensitive, the hyposensitive, in between. The introverted, the extroverted, the in between. So to your point it's the impact of these (freak out, disconnect) that is characteristic of ASD. My ASD mom was invited to join numerous college sororities but she always felt on the Outside, and didn't. My NT father was part of a fraternity. I grew up knowing that my mom was not a "joiner" and that I was not a "joiner" (briefly, but not long-term). I didn't know why, but I knew it was so. However, I do join support groups! (But unfortunately I get kicked out of NT ones - since I'm "too" emotional. My ASD support group says I am more than welcome to stick around.)