Okay, let's try a more constructive post

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adromedanblackhole
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18 Oct 2020, 12:09 am

QFT wrote:
So I was just wondering, are you Jewish?

Yes
QFT wrote:
What about yourself? What brought you to Israel?

I went as a trip to celebrate my life as a mark of 1 year past beating cancer in 2016

QFT wrote:
Thats interesting observation. Back in my late teens I came up with a theory that Judaism was founded by autistics and that Jews in general are genetically more predisposed to autism. No, I was not thinking of Israeli culture being abrupt-- I didn't even know that was the case.

The Israeli culture is the way it is more from a degree of danger and uncertainty, people are very impatient but also value their time and the culture is akin to something like a survivalist mentality. I would not describe the Israeli culture in sum as autistic. Take a person and put them under a high level of stress, and have their adrenaline spike repeatedly throughout the day and they become impatient for things like small talk and tolerating people and things they can't stand.
QFT wrote:
What I was thinking of was

a) Jews rock back and forth during prayers, and autistics rock back and forth as well

The rocking back and forth is largely thanks to the Bal Shem Tov and the Chasidic movement which wanted an all encompassing prayer experience that utilized the body, mind, voice, soul altogether working in tandem to praise HaShem. Before Bal Shem Tov, this was not necessarily a custom.

QFT wrote:
b) Judaism have very strict rules that often are described in terms of exact numbers. And autistics like to come up with such rules as well

Sure, it also has a feel of obsessive compulsive
QFT wrote:
c) Some studies show that autistics have bigger brain than NT. Other studies show that Jews have bigger brain than non-Jews.

Maybe

QFT wrote:
So the theory that I came up with was this. There is no binary yes or no question to whether you are autistic or not. There is such a thing as "shaddow symptoms". So, as a result of autism-related genes being more prominant in Jewish population than elsewhere, two things happen:

(i) The majority of Jews are NT-s, but they have more shaddow symptoms of autism than others

Potentially true. Amongst the rule abiding orthodoxy there could definitely be a feeling of obsessive compulsion
QFT wrote:
(ii) The minority of Jews that ARE autistic is, in proportion to Jewish population, larger than the majority of people in general that are autistic in proportion to population in general.

I believe this is true for left-handedism as well. There are more Jewish left-handers compared to the general population. There are also more Israeli left-handers as well.

QFT wrote:
What are your thoughts on that though? Do you think they are more autistic than others?

There is definitely a higher basal level of obsessive compulsion amongst the orthodoxy as necessitated by their observance. I would not be surprised if there are higher incidences of Asperger's/HFA amongst Ashkenazi Jews just simply because Asperger's/HFA is considered a "disorder of intelligence" and while the average intelligence of the Ashkenazi population is only slightly higher and statistically insignificant as a whole, the number of individuals with an IQ 3-4 standard deviations above mean are overwhelmingly of an Ashkenazi origin and odds are high these people could be described as having Asperger's/HFA.
QFT wrote:
But you said a bit earlier you can blend in. So can you draw a line between "social functioning" and inability to blend in?

It's less easy for me to blend in the older I get. In my school days and university days it was easier. My social functioning in the corporate American work environment where I now am is impaired. I understand how to approach work like it is a passive war and to anticipate that the people around you absolutely could not care less about you, I do not understand how to layer this with a feigned social interest in people and going along with the make-believe that anyone actually cares about anyone else. Two layers of social engagement that I don't exactly prefer stacked upon each other. It leaves me feeling always that I am not in step with the prevailing social norm.
QFT wrote:
Thats interesting that you put it this way. I remember people were telling me that I don't miss out much since the interaction among younger adults isn't meaningful. But I was disagreeing and saying that I saw how they interact and it looks meaningful to me. I am glad you agree with me!

Well, not exactly. Social encounters are usually not meaningful. I don't entirely understand what people enjoy about them, meaning a large group of people spending time together. These are not necessarily meaningful, yet most people are wired for them and crave them. Forming meaningful friendships isn't necessarily the same as socializing. Most people will socialize their entire life, but will stop forming meaningful friendships past their mid 20s.

QFT wrote:
But if older adult is the analogue of a company then it would imply that an adult is the one who has no time for friends rather than others being the ones not having time to take adult as a friend. But if thats the case, then "solving" the friendship problem would boil down to time management. But thats not what happens to me. In my case it feels like others don't want me as a friend no matter whether I have time or not.

It's not really about time, it's just about interest. All the positions are filled so there's just no reason or interest in interviewing people etc.



adromedanblackhole
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18 Oct 2020, 12:16 am

Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Okay okay calm down with the hypnosis conspiracies.


Yes, mistress. :wink: :mrgreen:

Veto this word. No titles for me kiddo.



cyberdad
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18 Oct 2020, 1:16 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
There is definitely a higher basal level of obsessive compulsion amongst the orthodoxy as necessitated by their observance. I would not be surprised if there are higher incidences of Asperger's/HFA amongst Ashkenazi Jews just simply because Asperger's/HFA is considered a "disorder of intelligence" and while the average intelligence of the Ashkenazi population is only slightly higher and statistically insignificant as a whole, the number of individuals with an IQ 3-4 standard deviations above mean are overwhelmingly of an Ashkenazi origin and odds are high these people could be described as having Asperger's/HFA..


I learned in biology class that the tendency for Ashkenazi Jewish populations to intermarry due to population bottlenecks creates a greater chance they will carry autosomal recessive genetic traits than the wider population. Although autism isn't monogenic; polygenic traits do concentrate in groups like Ashkenazi jews and other populations who also practice cross-cousin marriage.



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23 Oct 2020, 5:18 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Since it seems like whenever I vent and give a disclaimer I'm not looking for advice, and I'm just looking to be acknowledged, heard, understood, I tend to get novels of life advice...

Let's try a more positive post.
I do generally believe that the direction of a person's thoughts is what primarily dictates their reality. In simplistic terms, a person who is always searching for the positive in any situation will generally be more successful and lead a happier life.

Yes. And 99.9% of humanity is unbearable to me and sometimes I seek solace from people who understand.

I like to start my day with a hypnosis recording I have of Marisa Peer. If unfamiliar, I would highly recommend giving her a listen. I also tend to make time in my day to listen to a recording of Christie Marie Sheldon - she tends to sooth my mood.

Additionally I really enjoy listening to music like this for roughly an hour of meditation:

When I'm really on top of this routine it makes dealing with the sharks of humanity somewhat more tolerable, but not much as they tend to take pleasure in bursting my bubble.


Marissa Peer's recording sounds hauntingly beautiful! I periodically listen to Tibetan bells for meditative purposes. Great to take time-outs for awhile via meditative practices!



malavois
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23 Oct 2020, 7:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
There is definitely a higher basal level of obsessive compulsion amongst the orthodoxy as necessitated by their observance. I would not be surprised if there are higher incidences of Asperger's/HFA amongst Ashkenazi Jews just simply because Asperger's/HFA is considered a "disorder of intelligence" and while the average intelligence of the Ashkenazi population is only slightly higher and statistically insignificant as a whole, the number of individuals with an IQ 3-4 standard deviations above mean are overwhelmingly of an Ashkenazi origin and odds are high these people could be described as having Asperger's/HFA..


I learned in biology class that the tendency for Ashkenazi Jewish populations to intermarry due to population bottlenecks creates a greater chance they will carry autosomal recessive genetic traits than the wider population. Although autism isn't monogenic; polygenic traits do concentrate in groups like Ashkenazi jews and other populations who also practice cross-cousin marriage.


I have never before considered the connection between Judaism and autism. I am half Ashkenazi and half Sephardic, and years ago when I received a genetic test for completely different reasons, I discovered I was a carrier for a degenerative nerve disease. Probably came from the Ash side and the Seph probably shored up the ol’ bloodline a bit. I wonder if there is a difference in the proportionate presence of autism between the different Jewish sects too.



adromedanblackhole
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24 Oct 2020, 2:21 pm

malavois wrote:
I have never before considered the connection between Judaism and autism. I am half Ashkenazi and half Sephardic, and years ago when I received a genetic test for completely different reasons, I discovered I was a carrier for a degenerative nerve disease. Probably came from the Ash side and the Seph probably shored up the ol’ bloodline a bit. I wonder if there is a difference in the proportionate presence of autism between the different Jewish sects too.

It would appear most of the current literature focuses on Ashkenazi populations given the relative homogeneity of this population and its cluster of associated genetic mutations that are unique to this group. A happy byproduct of inbreeding which Sephardi populations did not experience to the same degree. While it is true that Sephardi populations are the second closest related group to Ashkenazi populations, the genetic closeness within the Ashkenazi gene pool is allegedly as if all Ashkenazi's are 16th cousins. Allegedly roughly 40% of the Ashkenazi population descend from the same 4 women...

There just isn't quite the same level of genetic closeness within Sephardi and Mizrachi groups. Haven't looked much into the Temeni - but I feel like they also have dealt with inbreeding, just not for as many generations.



naturalplastic
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24 Oct 2020, 6:43 pm

Yes- the Ashkenazi are the largest group of Jews in the world, and the largest group in the USA. But they branched off relatively recently (like a 1000 years ago) from a relatively small number of founders, but multiplied fast.

Tay Sachs disease, which is genetic, has a high incidence among that group. So its not totally surprising that autism might be more common among them too.



Pepe
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24 Oct 2020, 6:54 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Okay okay calm down with the hypnosis conspiracies.


Yes, mistress. :wink: :mrgreen:

Veto this word. No titles for me kiddo.


"Kiddo"?
Please lose this title for me.
Besides, I am a lot older than you. 8)



cyberdad
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24 Oct 2020, 7:50 pm

malavois wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
There is definitely a higher basal level of obsessive compulsion amongst the orthodoxy as necessitated by their observance. I would not be surprised if there are higher incidences of Asperger's/HFA amongst Ashkenazi Jews just simply because Asperger's/HFA is considered a "disorder of intelligence" and while the average intelligence of the Ashkenazi population is only slightly higher and statistically insignificant as a whole, the number of individuals with an IQ 3-4 standard deviations above mean are overwhelmingly of an Ashkenazi origin and odds are high these people could be described as having Asperger's/HFA..


I learned in biology class that the tendency for Ashkenazi Jewish populations to intermarry due to population bottlenecks creates a greater chance they will carry autosomal recessive genetic traits than the wider population. Although autism isn't monogenic; polygenic traits do concentrate in groups like Ashkenazi jews and other populations who also practice cross-cousin marriage.


I have never before considered the connection between Judaism and autism. I am half Ashkenazi and half Sephardic, and years ago when I received a genetic test for completely different reasons, I discovered I was a carrier for a degenerative nerve disease. Probably came from the Ash side and the Seph probably shored up the ol’ bloodline a bit. I wonder if there is a difference in the proportionate presence of autism between the different Jewish sects too.


When I was a highschool student in the early 1980s the biology textbooks under the topic of "Mendelian genetics" would use two human populations to demonstrate inheritance of autosomal recessive genes
1. European royal families
2. Ashkenazi jews



adromedanblackhole
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24 Oct 2020, 8:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
malavois wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
There is definitely a higher basal level of obsessive compulsion amongst the orthodoxy as necessitated by their observance. I would not be surprised if there are higher incidences of Asperger's/HFA amongst Ashkenazi Jews just simply because Asperger's/HFA is considered a "disorder of intelligence" and while the average intelligence of the Ashkenazi population is only slightly higher and statistically insignificant as a whole, the number of individuals with an IQ 3-4 standard deviations above mean are overwhelmingly of an Ashkenazi origin and odds are high these people could be described as having Asperger's/HFA..


I learned in biology class that the tendency for Ashkenazi Jewish populations to intermarry due to population bottlenecks creates a greater chance they will carry autosomal recessive genetic traits than the wider population. Although autism isn't monogenic; polygenic traits do concentrate in groups like Ashkenazi jews and other populations who also practice cross-cousin marriage.


I have never before considered the connection between Judaism and autism. I am half Ashkenazi and half Sephardic, and years ago when I received a genetic test for completely different reasons, I discovered I was a carrier for a degenerative nerve disease. Probably came from the Ash side and the Seph probably shored up the ol’ bloodline a bit. I wonder if there is a difference in the proportionate presence of autism between the different Jewish sects too.


When I was a highschool student in the early 1980s the biology textbooks under the topic of "Mendelian genetics" would use two human populations to demonstrate inheritance of autosomal recessive genes
1. European royal families
2. Ashkenazi jews

Two fairly small gene pools



cyberdad
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24 Oct 2020, 8:11 pm

They are small (agreed) but used for illustrative purposes by the textbook authors.



adromedanblackhole
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24 Oct 2020, 11:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
They are small (agreed) but used for illustrative purposes by the textbook authors.

That was clear from you first mentioning this yes thank you.



adromedanblackhole
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25 Oct 2020, 12:03 am

This woman has uplifting content as well.



She had a book followed by a PBS Special "Building Your Field of Dreams"

She's definitely a little "woo woo" for some people. Not quite as "woo woo" as ABRAHAM-Hicks, but more or less in that genre.



adromedanblackhole
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25 Oct 2020, 12:06 am

Speaking of ABRAHAM-Hicks...



Spunge42
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25 Oct 2020, 1:31 am

Theres too much to quote in previous posts on this thread so...

I'm an Ashkenazi Jew, I've been accused of being a yehki by many of my orthodox friends. If you don't know what that is, its your typical German Jew who is characterized by being fastidious, clean freak, obsessive compulsive, persnickety ... you get the picture. I think part of why I wasn't diagnosed on the spectrum until last year maybe because of this. Even my conservative Jewish friends or secular friends called me persnickety all the time. So in my experience I see y'alls point that maybe Jews have a higher prevelance of at least autistic like behaviors ingrained into us. Lol. I hadn't really thought about it before now.

Also, when I lived in Israel for a short time I felt at peace. I always say it was the happiest time of my life.
1: because I love the desert.
2: I love the culture and lifestyle.
3: because my social skills didn't stand out. People just accepted me and I could converse more easily and effectively with others. I didn't constantly feel like an outsider.

I also, felt totally at ease in the orthodox community in NY and in Texas. When I'm in a secular community I feel much more exhausted and apparently mask a lot more. ............ so there may be something to this theory y'all have.


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