I Wish There Was No Humanity

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Lecia_Wynter
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30 Apr 2023, 8:44 am

Fnord wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

. . . the world can and should change in order to cater to spergs. . .

You seem to have forgotten that "The World" is not one homogeneous mass. It is instead over 8,000,000,000 individuals, the majority of whom are neuro-normative.

The best to be hoped for is an informed public; but this does not guaranty that the information will be perceived -- or even used -- in ways that will benefit the neuro-diverse.

Your solution is impractical, to say the least.

By the way, the use of the word "sperg" is offensive to some neuro-diverse people. Please refrain from its use.

Thank you.

If you want to get all woke on me here is my response. I am an asperg who knows other aspergs. Let me tell you a story about back in my day. When I went to school it was a Liberal leftist school, about 25% of the school were black students. About 5% were racist white kids. The n word got tossed around a lot at that school, and I'm not talkin' about nuclear. Most of the black students used the n word, then one of the woke teachers made an announcement to the black kids they were not allowed to use the n word anymore. It struck me as strange, telling blacks they cannot use the n word.

That being said, I am all for being woke, but the pruning should be all or nothin'. Make a safe space but don't allow anything controversial or anything offensive. If you can't say burgerazz then ban talk of rape, politics, religion or violence. Make it a safe space but don't half-heartedly do it, otherwise its tainted and defeats the whole point of a space space. Because somebody's gonna say something where somebody gets offended.

Also what if I flipped it around and said that the suggestion that autists ought to change themselves to cater to normies is offensive and ablist. And that it doesn't sound very woke and that I'm offended. Because I am offended.

cubedemon6073
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04 May 2023, 12:16 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

. . . the world can and should change in order to cater to spergs. . .

I don't like what Fnord says but I get what he is saying.

And, I don't know what you're saying here exactly.

ProfessorJohn
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04 May 2023, 4:48 pm

I have to agree with Fnord on this one. The world is not going to change for us. ASD individuals make up between 1 and 2% of the population. That isn't much.

Individuals have a limited information processing ability (I am a Cognitive Psychologist). So when in social situations they don't have the resources to consciously think through every different interaction strategy-how do I interact with a NT? How to I interact with an ASD individual, etc. They have to quickly make a decision using a heuristic that works most of the time. And that is the NT strategy since 98% of the people they are interacting with don't have ASD.

So all of the education we put out there isn't going to change how people interact with us.

Now those close to us and family members will take the time (hopefully) to learn these things since they spend a lot of time around us. People in general-NO

rse92
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05 May 2023, 12:37 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

. . . the world can and should change in order to cater to spergs. . .

Maybe you should sit this one out.

cubedemon6073
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20 May 2023, 12:38 am

ProfessorJohn wrote:

Here is the thing.

A cat can put on a dog costume and pretend he is a dog. He could be extremely good and pretending he is a dog while wearing the dog costume. The longer the cat in the dog costume is around the pack the more likely his cat like traits are going to pop out in bits and bobs. It takes full concentration for this cat in the dog costume to pretend he is a dog. But, if the cat is socializing, becomes more relaxed, becomes stressed anyway or something interrupts that concentration the mask will slip. Or, one or two of the dogs may get a certain bad vibe as in their BS detector will be tripped somehow.

In other words, all of this social skills training does it teaches an autistic to pretend to be NT. To mask! This is what Fnord, ProfessorJohn, and others on here would have us do.

Over the long haul, it does not work. Masking doesn't work Fnord. Masking doesn't work ProfessorJohn. A person will be found out someway, somehow. You can't pretend to be something that is alien to your nature.

In fact, this whole masking and code-switching is disingenuous anyway.

Maybe the whole world can't or won't change for us but we don't need it to.

My opinion: We need to be upfront about who and what we're are in our day to day interactions with others especially with those who we will interact with long term. This is being congruent. We own who we are and when we do this we own the high ground especially when it comes to employers. In other words, when employers refuse to hire us because we're being congruent with ourselves and others we have a case to present.

Own the high ground. Don't fake your way through life. People can spot a fake a mile away.

Fnord
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20 May 2023, 1:00 am

1. We are neither cats nor dogs; we are people.

2. Masking seems to work in most cases -- most people seem to be unable to tell the difference.

3. In those cases where masking fails, the truth is often mis-identified.

4. Even when NTs are not masking, their truth can also be mis-identified.

5. Professor John is a Cognitive Psychologist; cubedemon6073 is not.

My only conclusion is that cubedemon6073 is once again trying to force his own opinions down our throats as universal and irrefutable facts. This cannot end well.

:roll:

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Lecia_Wynter
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20 May 2023, 7:15 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:

ProfessorJohn wrote:

Exactly. I agree mostly except I believe certain drugs, such as pot or alcohol can actually make autists less introverted.

I don't get why a lot of posters in this thread want autists to try to cater to normies instead of the other way around. We've made a lot of progress in autism awareness in society. 100 years ago I'm not even sure if society recognized autism as even a thing.

cubedemon6073
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21 May 2023, 4:19 am

Fnord wrote:

Question: What are Professor John's credentials? How do you know he is a cognitive psychlogist? Anyone can claim to be anyone they want on line including the person I'm about to present.

Background information before question.

Marty Nemko is an educational psychologist.

Here are his credentials. https://www.martynemko.com/about-marty

Marty Nemko has written this: http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... d-job.html

Educational Psychology and Cognitive psychology are branches of psychology.

Question: Who is correct? How do you know?

Background information: The National Institute for Health has done a study on masking in 2021

This study does have weaknesses and I hope they do fill these weaknesses.

Question: If the weaknesses are filled and the conclusion remains the same then they have and possibly will have the claim that masking is not good for one's mental health.

I do hope more studies are done.

But, this Professor John is but one expert. Correct? Do you have other experts who verify his claim? What are their credentials?

Question: For those who managed to pass the job interviews how many autistic people are let go for one reason or another because their masked slipped a little bit? An autistic person rocks back and forth thinking no one sees him or stimming in some kind of way. Or, he talks to himself when his mind is in a natural comfort zone at work? Or, the autistic person may be stimming in an inappropriate way and may not even be coconscious about it. Or, another person who was a courtesy clerk at Kroger years and years ago thinking he is alone in the restroom but is screaming in the mirror just to relieve stress and anxiety. And, this is his way to cope. Or, this same man says under his breath and not even aware or it is not within his conscience thinking "darn ciggarates" and offends someone really bad.

At some point a person's autistic traits will come out even if in small doses here and there and may make other people uncomfortable. And, the autistic person may not realize he is even doing any of these things until he finds out one day he is let go.

Question: You said "My only conclusion is that cubedemon6073 is once again trying to force his own opinions down our throats as universal and irrefutable facts. "

1. When did I force anyone to do anything?

2. Who did I force exactly?

3. How would it be possible for me to force anything as in putting a gun to someone's head or a knife to someone's throat?

4. Who did I threaten? How did I threaten them? What did I threaten them with?

5. Provide evidence I forced anyone to do anything.

Question: Are you calling me a criminal or terrorist since you say "I forced" others to listen to my views? If you are then I think that is a personal attack against me by you.

Moderators, do you know of any instance of when I forced anyone to do anything?

cubedemon6073
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21 May 2023, 9:36 pm

What Fnord did was called an Appeal to Authority

https://www.linkedin.com/advice/1/what-some-strategies-challenge-appeal-authority#:~:text=The%20appeal%20to%20authority%20fallacy%20is%20a%20type%20of%20informal,any%20other%20evidence%20or%20reasoning.

The website states "The appeal to authority fallacy is a type of informal fallacy that occurs when someone uses the authority, reputation, or expertise of a person or a source as the sole or primary reason to support their argument, without providing any other evidence or reasoning."

What other reputable sources does Fnord have? Can Fnord verify this cognitive psychologist's credentials? Dr. Marty Nemko as an expert seems to say something different as the NIH. Can Dr. Nemko's credentials be verified as well. I think the NIH is a reputable website so more then likely the author of the previous study I posted probably has a lot of merit to it.

But, if everyone's credentials are verified who is correct exactly? How do we tell? Which authority should be listened to?

cubedemon6073
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22 May 2023, 10:22 pm

Quote:

1. We are neither cats nor dogs; we are people.

This is an analogy. A figure of speech. Of course we're not cats nor dogs. But, what Fnord and Professor John is like a cat putting on a dog costume and this cat acting like a dog.

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As an analogy and in a nutshell, this is Professor John and Fnord's advice for us. And, guess what the psychological and medical establishment used things like electro-shock treatment in the past and they did things like a lobotomy.

And, really this is what is expected of those on the spectrum by certain people out there.
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Fnord comes from a military background. In the military you're expected to conform and follow orders unquestionably and unconditionally except if the order would cause you to do something illegal or immoral. We're to fall in line and obey orders unquestionably. This in a nutshell is what he is saying to do. We're to shut up, stand at attention and say yes sir, no sir, yes mam, no mam and do without question.
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But, what happens if you can't obey or what is expected of you goes against who you are down to your very core and soul. What happens when it goes against your very values?

IF YOU HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES DO NOT LOOK!
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Think about what happened to Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.

Edna3362
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24 May 2023, 12:36 am

As much as I share the sentiment over humanity... Or worse... Over others or mine...

I cannot change humanity.
I can only change myself and where I'm -- this includes the environment I'm putting myself into, the people I'm exposing myself into...

With time and more independence -- or, a better side of interdependence, the latter's scope can be widen.

And eventually, what I can and likely will have.
Eventually, if I succeed, maybe, I can give others that chance.

True independence... Is a privilege.
Not even the majority of NTs can attain it.

Interdependence... Is a healthier attainment.
However, with autism... It's complicated. Basically a luck draw. Each move is a gamble.

In the higher scheme of things -- there's nothing to get out from life.
Enticed with the idea of winners and losers.
Brought the idea of winning the stupid game.
Persuaded with the idea of status and achievements.
Life itself is meaningless. There is no real prize.

As meaningless as binging netflix shows, fanfictions and library of movies. :lol:
And the prize is entertainment... Or lessons; if you're viewing quality material.

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Fnord
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24 May 2023, 4:16 am

Fnord wrote:

"The World" is not one homogeneous mass. It is instead over 8,000,000,000 individuals, the majority of whom are neuro-normative. The best to be hoped for is an informed public; but this does not guaranty that the information will be perceived -- or even used -- in ways that will benefit the neuro-diverse. Expecting "The World" to change for a very small minority of people is simply impractical, to say the least.

ProfessorJohn wrote:

I have to agree with Fnord on this one. The world is not going to change for us. ASD individuals make up between 1 and 2% of the population. That isn't much.

These simple statements of fact should be obvious to anyone. Why they are not makes no sense.

We are not special, The World owes us nothing, and there is nothing productive about arguing the point.

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Mona Pereth
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25 May 2023, 6:02 pm

ProfessorJohn wrote:

The world is not going to change for us. ASD individuals make up between 1 and 2% of the population.

Actually, there has been some progress on this front. See, for example:

- The Rise of Neurodiversity at Work: Organizations are finally embracing neurodiversity in their workplaces, by Ed Thompson, Psychology Today, May 24, 2023.

Seems to be the title of that article is a bit overly optimistic, but progress is happening, albeit slowly, at least in some kinds of workplaces.

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cubedemon6073
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25 May 2023, 8:25 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

ProfessorJohn wrote:

The world is not going to change for us. ASD individuals make up between 1 and 2% of the population.

Mona, are you sure about this though?

My opinion: In the sense of what he said for the world in the present form he is right and it will not. My argument is against his solution which is masking. My argument is that masking and pretending what one is not will more likely fail over time. Even if it is years. At some point, the mask will slip. Whether it is unconscious stimming or asking a bit to many questions unconsciously and not even realizing he may be pissing someone off. Or, he says something and doesn't realize it is inappropriate.

My point Fnord is right and more then likely the world will not adjust for us and his idea of adapting by masking and pretending doesn't work over the long haul.

Mona, the average employer will give a bunch of lip service but in the end they're not going to adjust.

At this point in time, I think a good chunk of those on the spectrum are simply to disabled to be employed and be independent. And, if the world will not adjust then I think parents of these future children need to take a hard look at what the future holds and prepare for the worst possible outcome which is your child won't be independent and won't be able to hold a job.

And....

Will the average autistic person have the mental capacity to go through the steps to pay their taxes? Will they with executive functioning issues be able to save documents required to pay yearly? This is another issue to think about outside of employment?

And....

Does the average autistic person, even the most highest functioning one, have the capacity to enter into a legal binding contract?

cubedemon6073
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28 May 2023, 3:59 am

I will say this though. The same people who say we're owed nothing are more then likely the same ones to get angry if they saw any of us taking the knee like Colin Kaepernick during the national anthem.

And...

I believe it was John F. Kennedy who said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

None of us are owed anything by our country yet we owe our country? Why is that Fnord?

We're expected to give our country our loyalty yet it owes us nothing. <<<<Fnord and those like him who "accept facts" wants us to be in a codependent relationship with lady liberty.

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28 May 2023, 4:03 am

WPTaylor wrote:

It's like I just can't deal with humanity. This term about being on the wrong planet couldn't be more accurate.

I know what you mean. I've always been on the wrong planet, it seems.

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