Is strict rule following really a thing with Asperger's?

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12 Sep 2023, 4:25 pm

If it is, I aparently never got the memo. A lot of old fashioned teachers who believed children should obey adults at all costs and never question them HATED the fact I would question rules. Rules that did not make sense to me and ones that were just there because Mrs. Jenkins is on a power trip. I obeyed rules that made since to me such as "Don't run around the pool" my mother explained that area around the pool is slippery and if you were to run, you could potentially slip and get badly hurt. So I never ran around the pool. "Don't put your hands in the dog dish!" Dog could accidently bite you. I don't know if I tried to enforce those on other kids. I think I only enforced rules I had made.

I remember in kindergarten we had one class in another part of the school. To get to this part of the school, we had to go outside. The teacher is like, "Inside voices, we are still indoors." No were not and you know it! EVERYONE in this line knows it too. I told the teacher we weren't indoors...because we weren't and she got super angry. She should have said, "Yes, I know we are outdoors. But since it's not recess yes, let's use indoor voices anyway." To her, "Inside voice" meant total silence. She obviously only became a kindergarten teacher for the power trip. But she told us we were still inside even though we were outside. 30 years later, I'm still trying to make since of that.

I had a really nice teacher in first grade who DID try to explain rules and didn't really have any that didn't make sense. Since she was nice to me (one of the few teachers I had before my parents got fed up with the public school's BS who was) I trusted her and I think I might have tried to enforce rules on other kids who were breaking them. I can't remember. Still trying to understand why the kindergarten teacher thought she could say we were indoors when we were not. Just tell us to be quiet anyway. Be honest and tell us you're just an old wench who can't stand the sound of children's voices yet somehow thought kindergarten teacher was a good career decision.

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funeralxempire
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12 Sep 2023, 5:27 pm

I'd be curious if there's two fair stereotypes, one for those with ASD only and one for those with ASD+ADHD.

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MatchboxVagabond
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12 Sep 2023, 8:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

I'd be curious if there's two fair stereotypes, one for those with ASD only and one for those with ASD+ADHD.

It could be, it could also be that some autistic people have PDA and others don't. For those that don't, following the rules strictly is just plain easier than trying to figure out when to and not to follow the rules.

Although, I've definitely got ADHD and it can be a chore following the rules strictly. The only reason I ever do is because it satisfies my OCD and autistic needs for consistency.

I appreciate that I've got people at work now that explain that stuff so that I don't have to burn through a bunch of unnecessary calories thinking about whether or not to take things literally.

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12 Sep 2023, 9:02 pm

I found it very easy to program computers by looking up the rules and following them.
A lot of computers aren't smart enough to figure out what you are trying to do if you don't follow the rules.

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12 Sep 2023, 9:08 pm

Sigh. Yes.

I started programming computers in 1971. I thought all those decades working with computers had affected how I thought. Then in 2019 I learned I was Autistic. It turns out it was how I thought that made me want to program computers.

(Hey. It's my special interest. You go chase yours.)

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MatchboxVagabond
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12 Sep 2023, 9:27 pm

Double Retired wrote:

There are far worse special interests to have, especially at that point in history.

colliegrace
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12 Sep 2023, 11:05 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

I'd be curious if there's two fair stereotypes, one for those with ASD only and one for those with ASD+ADHD.

So much this

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13 Sep 2023, 7:25 am

bobert wrote:

I generally like to follow rules if they seem logical, or necessary, but tend to disregard rules if they seem arbitrary, or make no sense.
I think one reason aspies are rule oriented is that rules provide stability in a seemingly chaotic world that can be hard for many of us to understand.

I figured it out some time ago. Rules that are for those ruled only and not for the ruler - are ignored. Rules that improve whatever they rule, are accepted. Although I prefer my own rules, because they only related to my wellbeing.

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15 Sep 2023, 10:37 pm

I always follow the rules; when those imposed by society are not appropriate, logical or fair I substitute them with my own...

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Weight Of Memory
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16 Sep 2023, 7:28 am

funeralxempire"Apparently saving Anne Frank makes one entitled garbage unfit to live.[/quote]

To quote my earlier post:
"The only justifiable reason to violate rules is when following the rules would require an immoral act."

[quote="IsabellaLinton wrote:

most people exercise discretion and aren't advocating anarchy.

You did live through the pandemic, right? You saw how many people refused to wear masks or deliberately wore them wrong. Because "freedom" and "discretion".

You have been on highways, right? Seen how many people ignore the speed limit?

Maybe it's not an issue in your area but people here are constantly ignoring dog prohibitions or trying to get around them by lying about their supposed service animals.

Most people are petulant, entitled, selfish children. They deserve to have a boot stomp on their face forever.

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16 Sep 2023, 7:37 am

Weight Of Memory wrote:

You don't sound totalitarian at all.

It's rare to see people follow the posted speed limits where I live. I don't see that as a problem, I see it as a reflection of them being set unreasonably low. They choose not to enforce them strictly because it means practically every driver has 'probable cause' to be pulled over.

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16 Sep 2023, 7:56 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Weight Of Memory wrote:

You don't sound totalitarian at all.

People don't follow the speed limit for various reasons, but the big one is that the roads aren't properly engineered for the posted speed limit. Around here they dropped the speed limits from 30 or 35mph on most arterials to 25mph and the side streets from 25 to 20mph. There were no changes made to most of the roads and now everybody speeds including those of us that didn't generally do so.

If you want people to drive the speed limit, then the speed limit needs to be set based on how fast responsible drivers drive. And that is primarily influenced by the road design. The closer things are to the roadway and the narrower the lanes, the slower people are going to drive. But, if you've got multiple lanes of traffic and plenty of space, people are going to drive faster, This whole business of forcing people to regularly look at the speedometer is ridiculous and unsafe. And don't get me on school zones.

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16 Sep 2023, 11:40 am

If I speed (which I don't right now, I actually go far below the speed limit cos scared), it's because I'm matching the speed of the cars around me. Going too slow is just as dangerous as going too fast, as my instructor is trying to drill into me.

Def agree on the service dog thing at least. That one seriously affects the disabled community. There is no easy way to spot a fake, but when I see "service dogs" at work who don't know how to behave, I have my suspicions.

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16 Sep 2023, 11:46 am

colliegrace wrote:

At least in the US, part of the problem is that business owners aren't allowed to ask any questions at all. So, unless the dog is really misbehaving severely, the dogs can go wherever the person is allowed to be.

When I was working security, it really angered me the way people would bring in what were clearly pets and lying about it. But, we weren't allowed to ask any questions, so if somebody did get bitten by an ill-behaved dog, there wasn't much we could do beyond kick the animal, and owner out, and file the necessary reports.

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16 Sep 2023, 12:03 pm

hypercane3 wrote:

I have heard this a lot, but haven't really observed it much in others. I have even seen it described as a virtue when it is anything but. I feel like I don't relate to this symptom at all. And yes, I call it a symptom because rules are often made by organizations that don't have aspies in mind at all at best or at worst are constructs from corporations that only care about their bottom line. I am not a strict rule follower. Rules are a social construct.

Very often, rules can be broken without causing any disruption whatsoever. I have a medical marijuana card and due to housing prices essentially doubling in my region in a year, I really didn't have choice but to sign for the only place I can afford. Can't really move if the prices increase that fast. I have used this treatment since 2019. They say I cannot use marijuana despite it being medical. They cite federal law and all that. Im not surprised. The interests of insurance companies and the like are more important than me as a paying tenant. I smoke outside where it won't disturb my roommates but it is still against the rules. I cannot even go swimming after dusk. I am going into my second year here and have broken both of these rules on a regular basis. How? I do it in a way that isn't disruptive. I smoke somewhere discretely and swim when the security guard leaves to patrol another apartment.

Liability and culture amongst other things has led to corporations creating lots of rules. The fact is that a substantial percentage of people cant afford to live in places where their lives aren't controlled by external humans and inaccurate assumptions (isn't that the aspie dream?). We are going into a time when few people can afford their own property and I fear that those on the spectrum will be the most impacted.

I'm fairly sensory hyposensitive. Maybe the sensory hypersensitive have a different view? I don't care if I hear a pool party by my window at 2am. Id hear it every single night if it meant that I could take a dip when I wanted to at 2am. The noise literally does not phase me in the slightest. If I walk by cigarettes (which I don't smoke), I am so used to it that I don't even notice it.

My current apartment told us (without it being mentioned in the lease) to keep our AC in auto rather than on. It is bad for the system. Roommate wants to obey some maintenance dude, as that is "what the office wants". I really couldn't care less what the office wants, they are mandated by the lease to fix our AC when it breaks and if I want the fan on then I want the fan on. Utility bill isn't high. If it breaks then I will just tell the maintenance team it was on auto the entire time and unexpectedly failed at 72F (that is another stereotype...we apparently cannot tell lies).

I've always had a clash with authority figures and I feel like my Asperger's positively contributes to that instead of negatively and merely being the exception. The idea that people with Asperger's blindly follow rules is some of the strangest BS I have ever heard. It doesn't make sense.

Are they paying your power bill, that is why they want it on auto. It actually saves money because it only turns on when the room temperature goes up so it turns on to keep it cool at the temperature you set it at. This issue can be solved if landlords have their own tenants pay their own power bill, now the tenants can be in control of their temperature for heat and AC. If landlords paid everyone's power bill, what happens is they start locking your thermostat because people don't obey the landlord for not messing with it, then people start using space heaters or ovens or using portable ACs.

As for smoking, people don't want to smell your weed, the smell can get into other peoples apartments. I hope you are going to an area where no one can smell it or you are one of those neighbors people rant about online. Also just because you don't react to second hand smoke doesn't mean other people don't have a reaction to it, my dad got migraines from the fumes so he had to quit a job because everyone smoked at their desks. This was in the 1980s. I start coughing when I inhale smoke so I constantly have to hold my breath. I also move to another area if someone is smoking. If everyone did it, then public wouldn't be good for me. I have no idea how people survived back then when many people smoked in public.

As for pool parties, just because you don't care about hearing them at 2AM doesn't mean other neighbors want to hear it.

Rules exist for a reason and they are created when it becomes a problem so they make a rule about it. Another thing they often say about aspies is that we are logical, if that were true, we would all be able to understand why a rule is there and respect it than being all self centered about it because we think it didn't apply to us, guess what, if everyone thought this way, everyone would be breaking rules all the time because they think it didn't apply to them.

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funeralxempire
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16 Sep 2023, 2:22 pm

colliegrace wrote:

The real issue is interactions, whether you're passing everyone, or being passed by everyone, you're at a greater risk of one of those interactions involving contact.

I'm glad that since I don't work anywhere people might bring their dogs, if they have an obviously not-a-service-dog posing as one, I'm under no obligation to not tell them to get their shitbeast out of the grocery store or whatever inappropriate place they've dragged their little coprophage into.

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Is strict rule following really a thing with Asperger's?