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Israel and Iran ‘A fork in the road’

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funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2024, 11:03 am

BillyTree wrote:
No, it doesn't as long as you think it's perfectly normal for a democratic state to declare the U.N. secretary general Persona Non Grata. :lol:


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05 Oct 2024, 11:09 am

carlos55 wrote:
Maybe an ideal solution is all Israelis should move to the 2nd Israel in Siberia and declare independence. Maybe Putin would give it?

Although i understand Jews religious attachment to that part of the world in the middle east

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79zbot-knWc&t=192s


OR...
Move the entire Palestinian population to...the Jewish Autonomous Province in Siberia, and let the Jews remain in Israel.

The extremist war criminal factions of both sides (Bibi AND HAMAS) seemed to have succeeded in their joint goal of sewing so much bitterness that a two state solution is impossible. So the only future possible is for one group to ethnically cleanse the other...from river to sea. So one group has to vacate its whole population. So...just pick which group has to move and which stays.



funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2024, 11:15 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Move the entire Palestinian population to...the Jewish Autonomous Province in Siberia, and let the Jews remain in Israel.


Why would we force the people who've been there all along to move.

That's like if Canada or the US started forcing native people to relocate to Australia to make room for settlers and their descendents.


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05 Oct 2024, 1:33 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
While generational memories of the Shah might be a factor in Iran’s hostility towards Israel it is a minor one at best.

The main motivation is Iran is trying to be the regional power by being viewed as the leader in driving the “infidels” out.


And its not even "Iran" the country. Its the ruling regime that seeks military vainglory by sinking billions into its proxy wars.

On Oct 7 the HAMAS attack was announced to a crowd in an Iranian soccer stadium, and the authorities invited the crowd to salute the Palestinian flag. The 70 thousand crowd responded by chanting "stick the Palestinian flag up your arse" in Farsi to express the crowds anger at the regime squandering treasure on military proxies and not on domestic development.



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05 Oct 2024, 5:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
That's like if Canada or the US started forcing native people to relocate to Australia to make room for settlers and their descendents.

Actually that's how Australia was founded. Britain sent convicts and poor people here to make Britain free of the urban poor.



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05 Oct 2024, 5:11 pm

BillyTree wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
trying to paint Israel as some type of rogue state doesn't really work.


No, it doesn't as long as you think it's perfectly normal for a democratic state to declare the U.N. secretary general Persona Non Grata. :lol:


Approx 84 countries including the biggest western democracies support Israel. I think that's all that matters.



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05 Oct 2024, 5:13 pm

MaxE wrote:
Their leadership probably all have university degrees but yeah I don't think you truly appreciate the intensity of their hatred because for some reason you seem compelled to defend them.


Leadership are living well...https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hama ... -in-qatar/



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06 Oct 2024, 2:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
BillyTree wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
trying to paint Israel as some type of rogue state doesn't really work.


No, it doesn't as long as you think it's perfectly normal for a democratic state to declare the U.N. secretary general Persona Non Grata. :lol:


Approx 84 countries including the biggest western democracies support Israel. I think that's all that matters.


Please define what "support Israel" means in this context. How many countries support Israel against the UN or against the International Court of Justice?


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funeralxempire
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06 Oct 2024, 2:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's like if Canada or the US started forcing native people to relocate to Australia to make room for settlers and their descendents.

Actually that's how Australia was founded. Britain sent convicts and poor people here to make Britain free of the urban poor.


I'm aware of Australia's history but it's also not relevant to the point.

In the current era, we don't ethnically cleanse an existing population in order to make room for colonists and settlers.

Unfortunately we also seem to turn a blind eye to Israel doing exactly that because we've decided they're the designated good guys, no matter how villainous their behaviour might be.


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06 Oct 2024, 2:35 pm

BillyTree wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Approx 84 countries including the biggest western democracies support Israel. I think that's all that matters.


Please define what "support Israel" means in this context. How many countries support Israel against the UN or against the International Court of Justice?

I agree, I would also like to see a definition of "support Israel" as well as some sort of citation.

But I would like to point out that, in all likelihood, the predominant sentiment regarding Israel amongst most members of the General Assembly, if not necessarily the original makeup of the Security Council, has been antagonistic from the start. There is no other way to explain the creation and perpetual maintenance of the UNWRA.


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cyberdad
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06 Oct 2024, 4:05 pm

Support = Israel's right to exist and defend themselves.

Only extremist regimes and those supporting terror disagree with the above.



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06 Oct 2024, 4:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
In the current era, we don't ethnically cleanse an existing population in order to make room for colonists and settlers.

Unfortunately we also seem to turn a blind eye to Israel doing exactly that because we've decided they're the designated good guys, no matter how villainous their behaviour might be.


Who is "we" FE? the white and Chinese overlords?
they already cleared 3/4 of the world's best land for Lebensraum. Job done.
Let's not pretend westerners are the good guys. Any more than Israel.



funeralxempire
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06 Oct 2024, 4:11 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
In the current era, we don't ethnically cleanse an existing population in order to make room for colonists and settlers.

Unfortunately we also seem to turn a blind eye to Israel doing exactly that because we've decided they're the designated good guys, no matter how villainous their behaviour might be.


Who is "we" FE? the white and Chinese overlords?
they already cleared 3/4 of the world's best land for Lebensraum. Job done.
Let's not pretend westerners are the good guys. Any more than Israel.


We being the west that claims to support human rights, until those human rights are in conflict with corporate or western national interests.

I think you and I agree that west is often a hypocrite on protecting rights, I just don't use past failures as an excuse to keep failing whereas you often seem to suggest that having a reputation for hypocrisy means one should just continue to fail and be a hypocrite.


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06 Oct 2024, 4:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I just don't use past failures as an excuse to keep failing whereas you often seem to suggest that having a reputation for hypocrisy means one should just continue to fail and be a hypocrite.


In order for the conflict in Israel vs Palestine to reach settlement you need to replicate the conditions that led to the Oslo Accords with Arafat and Rabin. For that to happen
Palestinian people need to give up armed struggle and stop supporting HAMAS
Israel people need to sack Netanyahu and put him on notice or trial
A third nuetral party (Not the US) should broker negotiations



funeralxempire
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06 Oct 2024, 8:41 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Israel people need to sack Netanyahu and put him on notice or trial


Netanyahu is a symptom as much as he's also a part of the problem. Too many Israelis support aggression towards Palestine regardless of which guy is in office as it occurs.


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cyberdad
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06 Oct 2024, 9:16 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Too many Israelis support aggression towards Palestine regardless of which guy is in office as it occurs.


You do know that there are a lot of young Israelis marching in tel aviv protesting against Bibi right? Heck even the kids of current ministers are against their own parents
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... 8fc6c0000h

I think there is a lot of conflict among younger Jews who aren't the bloodthirsty expansionists they are being painted out to be by their American counterparts in US colleges.