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Quintucket
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26 Nov 2005, 2:41 pm

ed wrote:
Campaign contributions are bribes.

Not always.
In small amounts, they're endorsements of a platform.

ed wrote:
I set the $$$ limit low so that wealthy people wouldn't be able to contribute more than anybody else.

Poor people can't contribute as well.
And if you happen to own the press, then unless you're an independent journalist, you're wealthy.
Small contributions would be an equalizer, though large aren't.

ed wrote:
I don't allow donations to candidates you can't vote for, to prevent Massachusetts voters from contributing to defeat Jesse Helms or his current counterparts, or southern voters to defeat Ted Kennedy.

My issue isn't with barring foreigners and outastaters to donate.
My issue is with barring minors and permanent residents from voting.


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Darth_Malik
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27 Nov 2005, 6:08 pm

EVERYONE wants to change something, and EVERYONE wants to add this or that, but only a few have the right to rule. I believe that pure democracy or despotism is stupid. Modern democracy is a balance and everything is intact for a reason.

You want to give people “more” power, yet intact a law that requires people to take a test to vote? If you peruse history more closely you’ll see that indeed it was used to limit certain people’s right to vote such as African Americans before civil rights. Tests take power away from the people. A sample test was given to my class, and me and some nerdy hippy girl were the only two people to pass. What is stopping me from pulling out my lightsaber and slicing up the only competition? Hehe…and then seizing power for myself because I voted myself supreme chancellor? Everyone has a few good ideas for change, and EVERYONE has some really bad ones that can be balanced by the other people in charge of the government.

I believe that American is becoming more and more of a corporate Republic with commercial lobbyists corrupting and distracting the senate away from the more important issues.

Presidential elections should be heavily regulated and each person allowed the same amount of campaign funds and tv air time, otherwise you only get candidates who are either grossly rich or heavily funded by corporate interests…possibly even overseas interests.



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27 Nov 2005, 8:47 pm

Eh, I don't like the party system. I hope I never have to choose a party, cause I won't.


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midge
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28 Nov 2005, 5:12 pm

Quote:

I believe that American is becoming more and more of a corporate Republic with commercial lobbyists corrupting and distracting the senate away from the more important issues.


I absolutely agree with this, corporations and other large organizations have far too much power and I believe it is mainly their interests that are being served by the government, sometimes, if not often, at the expense of individual citizens. I could go on and on about the all the examples, but I wouldn't be able to stop myself! Perhaps the most dangerous to our democracy is their control of the mass media-they basically control what we see and do not see. Aggressive campaign reform is badly needed, as has been suggested, as well as heavy regulation of elections and the implementation of a system that gives third party candidates more power, as have also been suggested. There is a great deal of evidence that both the 2000 and 2004 elections were rigged, including this little gem from tompaine.com about the 2004 election: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php
For many examples of corporate influence on the government, see this article:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/9_corp.htm
And also this article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e10407.htm

I could go on and on about the corruption in the American government, but I wouldn't even know where to begin, nor where to stop......I'll leave ya with this juicy excerpt from the last link (please excuse the slight partisan tones, I think the whole "lesser of two evils" mentality is very bad as well, and the Dem's certainly don't have a spotless record)
Quote:
The imperative to gut government collides with the needs and wants of the rich and powerful.

One result of this collision was that in 2004, Mr. Bush’s tax reforms gave the average millionaire a $123,595 cut, but cut the middle 20% of income earners by just $647.

The K Street Consortium also explains why all of that $647 and more got eaten up by increased medical, energy, and educational costs.

Take the Prescription Drug Plan passed in 2003. As many as 3000 lobbyists spending hundreds of millions ($116 million in 2003 alone) worked diligently to pass this Porker. The payoff for industry, according to a study by Sager and Socolar of Boston University, is that as much as 61% of Medicare’s costs will be pure profit for the Drug companies, an increase of as much as $139 billion (that’s billion with a b).

Why?

Because the lobbyists from PhRMA – one of the most powerful K Street Players – made sure that the US was actually prohibited from using its buying power to negotiate for lower cost drugs under the new prescription drug plan. Net cost to tax payers? $720 billion over ten years.

Or take the Energy Legislation: $66 billion dollars worth of pork, the majority of it going to the fossil fuel industry at a time when oil companies are earning record profits. This piece of K Street legislative pornography scarcely addresses demand, so the oil industry gets billions, and Americans get guaranteed high prices.

But if the imperative for the K Street consortium is to simultaneously shrink government and provide corporate Pork, how do the Republicans propose paying for it?

Easy. First, cut programs that benefit people, to help fund the pork. As Jonathon Weisman reported in the Washington Post, over the next several months, Republicans will try to cut Medicaid growth by $10 billion, trim $7 billion from the Student Loan program, sell out ANWR for $2.4 billion in oil revenue; cut the food stamp program by $600 million, among other cuts.

Of course, no matter how much you screw the people, you can’t afford to give rich people massive tax cuts while you give trillions to industry. So, the second part of their strategy is to simply pass on the inevitable bill to our children. If the K Street Consortium implements their policy agenda, in ten years, every child born in the US will "inherit" $36,000 of additional debt.

And that was before Katrina burst through levees weakened by budget cuts; before New Orleans and the gulf coast spun into a national purgatory as a crony-ladened FEMA bumbled around for five days.

Since Bush and his K Street cronies refuse to delay their tax cut for the rich, we’ll have to cut more programs and shovel more debt onto our children and grandchildren to cover Katrina’s and Rita’s $200 billion plus price tag.

So much for Republican fiscal conservatism.

Ironically, the K Street Consortium not only hurts the average American, it hurts American industry.

For example, when GM spends more than $1000 per vehicle on health care for their US workers, but Toyota spends next to nothing for theirs in Canada or Japan because they have universal health care, it’s hard for GM to compete, and it’s hard for the US to retain or generate manufacturing jobs. The same is true of cuts to education. The US worker is falling behind the rest of the developed world’s labor force in terms of skills so we’re losing one of our primary competitive advantages. And testing required under No Child Left Behind is all well and good, but when the testing reveals problems, the Bush Administration has not been willing to pay for improvements.

Republicans accuse Democrats of being "tax and spend liberals." The reality is, Democrats do tax a little more, but they spend less, and Americans get more for their money.

Republicans tax less but spend much more and the borrowed largesse goes to corporations and the likes of Ken Lay and Paris Hilton, while the debt gets passed on to future generations.

Look beyond rhetoric to the record. Clinton gave us a smaller government with better services. And we now know that programs supporting jobs, education, and health care – the ones that Bush and the K Street Consortium want to cut – not only foster an equitable and just society, but they also promote a prosperous economy.

So, next time you visit Washington to see the seat of our government, forget Pennsylvania Avenue. Stop by K Street.

And while you’re there, ask Grover why you can’t get a college loan; why the US has the most expensive, but one of the least effective, health care systems in the developed world; why we’re closing factories but opening Wal-Marts; why wages have flatlined; and why your child is born into debt so that David Ovitz’ $100 million plus bonus for failing as Disney’s number two man isn’t taxed too heavily. Or ask Grover why New Orleans’ levees weren’t kept in good repair, and why FEMA fumbled.

Then ask yourself Dr. Phil’s famous question, "How’s all this working for you?"



KingChaosNinja
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03 Dec 2005, 1:21 am

Yes, starting ober would be ideal, but do you relize just what that implies. Society is still bound by the laws of Physics in that "For every action, there is an equal but opposet reaction." In order to start anew there must first be massive rioting, pandamonium, and bloodshead. You can't just go and say, "You know what guys. This whole goverment thing just isn't working out like it used to so we are just going to start clean. New Constitution and all." Five minutes later everything is fine and dandy. In history, all NEW governments started first with a general upheval from the lower (and middle class if applicable) in the form of riots or massive discontempt, but most often bloody and voilent roiting. Then there is a war with the powers that be. Then who ever can muster the most support from the largest amount of people get''s to make the new rules. If your lucky, you get a couple of guys to make the rules so they don't read like "Kneal before Zort" and "I own everyhing in existance including your immortal soul." So really what we need to do if we want massive change is to just form our own militia. Also Socialism is good and all but is kind of hard to form strait out the gate. Idealy you should start with a strong Libertarian Democracy and build off it a little at a time.


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ed
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03 Dec 2005, 8:24 am

KingChaosNinja wrote:
In order to start anew there must first be massive rioting, pandamonium, and bloodshead. You can't just go and say, "You know what guys. This whole goverment thing just isn't working out like it used to so we are just going to start clean. New Constitution and all."


That's exactly why I get so happy when the Government's policies come back to haunt them. We can't have massive rioting, pandamonium, and bloodshead without the people first realizing that this Government exists only to help the wealthy get richer at everyone else's expense, and that it couldn't care less about the welfare of the average citizen.



KingChaosNinja
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04 Dec 2005, 2:35 am

Indeed. We have a unique situation here in which to accomplish so much we only had the nerve to act. I feel we all talk a good game and a decent amount of people have a very solid idea of what is going on in our world but when it really comes down to it most of us lack the tenacity to actually act. We're just a bunch of kids on the playground that are waiting for the other side to through the first real punch because our parents told us it was ok to fight back.


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Mithrandir
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04 Dec 2005, 3:32 am

Whats wrong with democratic vote?
Whats wrong wtih going to the media?

If you think elections are fraud, there are a number of NGO you can go to
(Non Governmental Organizations).

Media is so vast, they will take any conspiracy theory. Go to an underground newspaper if you have to.


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Assassin
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04 Dec 2005, 8:24 am

Nothings wrong with the democratic vote, so long as it is ACTUALLY democratic. In fact, its the only check that can be put on a goverment, and is therefore the most necessary thing in politics.

Quote:
Media is so vast, they will take any conspiracy theory


thats the problem. since most conspiracy theerys have very little truth in them, the ones that do get ignored.


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Mithrandir
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05 Dec 2005, 12:51 am

It might turn into a job, give some insane ideas and get paid. :lol:


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