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funeralxempire
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18 Nov 2024, 9:13 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Deuteronomy 20:10-18 When you draw near to a town to fight against it, offer it terms of peace. 11 If it accepts your terms of peace and surrenders to you, then all the people in it shall serve you at forced labor. 12 But if it does not accept your terms of peace and makes war against you, then you shall besiege it, 13 and when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword. 14 You may, however, take as your plunder the women, the children, livestock, and everything else in the town, all its spoil. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall treat all the towns that are very far from you, which are not towns of these nations here. 16 But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. 17 Indeed, you shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded, 18 so that they may not teach you to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their gods and you thus sin against the Lord your God.


Might as well have been the manual for Islamic Jihad that you were quoting. I'm sure a lot of religions are based on this cut-and-pasted philosophy. It probably goes back all the way to some cave drawings that translate to "Ogg kill Ugg in cave next door, take spear and woman, him worship mammoth not bear!"

In sci-fi terms, it aligns more with Heinlein.


I'm not sure religion was like that at all. There's a very long period where people were able to interpret each other's gods as being analogs of each other and existing simultaneously. This doesn't mean they were always positive interpretations (like Egyptians seeing YHWH as Set), but it made it much easier for different polytheists to coexist, at least as far as religion went.

The need to demonize all other gods was largely tied to monotheistic interpretations of god. Even if some peoples mocked YHWH as a donkey-headed demon, they still didn't view him as harshly as the way Christians viewed pagan gods.

There's also likely a significant period before gods as a concept existed, with more but less powerful magical beings (spirits, ancestors, etc) being the primary focus.


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TwilightPrincess
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18 Nov 2024, 9:35 pm

I think Abrahamic religions share a lot in common which, perhaps, contributes in some ways to their animosity towards each other in addition to believing they each are following the one true religion (although YMMV). Even sects of Christianity can be hostile towards other Christian sects - Mormons and JWs come to mind. It’s extremely silly. Their petty god cares about petty doctrinal differences. JWs insist that Jesus died on a stake, not a cross. I don’t see why the hell it should matter since the end result is EXACTLY the same, but it’s apparently a HUGE deal.



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18 Nov 2024, 10:15 pm

As for those women whole ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first];
then distance yourself in bed, and then beat them; but if they pay you heed, do not
seek to harm them.
Q 4:34



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19 Nov 2024, 12:03 am



What Talmudic Rabbis Don't Want Gentiles To Know (practice of breaking all God's laws and not keeping kosher, almost like Jewish satanism)

The Bible warns many times of jewish decision between right and wrong. Not all Jews were or are good people. But any institution can contain corruption as with religious leaders and corruption of arranged marriages.
I am so anti-institution, anti-society and anti-illuminati or whoever seeks power to control others.

Beware of changes in old testament, it's misleading. God gave 10 commandments and it's clear do not covert what they neighbour has, or adultery so let's review Jewish law of how to treat slaves, (Elijah was profit accepted islam and Judaism and interesting how islam interprets slavery laws) but no you under commandments may not sleep with female slaves, this book wasn't corrected such as actions of David)

Now that we live in age where woman are no longer stoned, I speak freely. I sat in synagogue that day, woman upstairs and looked down at the men who thanked G-d for making them men, but wait don't get upset there's explanation. I'd seeing some mysoganist view on TV that the man laughed and said of course G-d is a man, how can you not understand that part.
Um, so I looked up at sky outside in a field where I sat, I said you gave me a father who I love, he pays bills but is often of no comfort, my mother is unconditional blessing, her overweight is soft hug, her wrinkles less, our stretch marks the badges of honour, is this all because of Eden? If Job in Bible was a woman would you condemn him.
Within days I saw a man with no leg, I began to see men who were so stupid yet upholded by alliance for they always stick together to agree on money being withheld from woman. Shall I find G-d whilst I hang up the washing, whilst I break Sabbath to look after crying infant?
So has G-d given us woman a promise, that when I come to him and say you made me to bear children and I'm at loss to solution to my problem can I pray to you, I'm no longer virgin.... I pray with first grey hairs that he impart on me wisdom to guide.
Did I find my answer in mustard seed, did G-d not condemn men for their evil ways and not bring up for hidden fruit that day.

Whether you are a believer or not, open your eyes and see men, not all are righteous.

So if I held feminist riot, I won't burn my bra one woman said as it supports me more than a man. Nice. My riot is where we rent donkeys and ride virgin donkeys through street, with old hags who hold banners with nothing to say.



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19 Nov 2024, 7:15 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ I need to get around to reading some of his work one of these days. :lol:
(of L.R. Hubbard)

Essential reading -

[Amazon.com] Bare Faced Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard (Russell Miller)

[Amazon.com] Let's sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky: Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology (Jon Atack)

Let's just say... you're not the only person who escaped a cult. :wink:


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blitzkrieg
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19 Nov 2024, 8:13 am

Cornflake wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ I need to get around to reading some of his work one of these days. :lol:
(of L.R. Hubbard)

Essential reading -

[Amazon.com] Bare Faced Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard (Russell Miller)

[Amazon.com] Let's sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky: Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology (Jon Atack)

Let's just say... you're not the only person who escaped a cult. :wink:


Are you an ex-Christian then, Cornflake?

This might explain your seeming bitter disposition towards Christianity, as an LGBTQ+ individual. :P



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19 Nov 2024, 8:14 am

Or is your list of reading an insinuation that you were a... scientologist?!

:lol:



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19 Nov 2024, 9:54 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
This might explain your seeming bitter disposition towards Christianity

Valid criticism of Christianity, holy books, religion, or anything else for that matter does not necessarily mean that one has a “bitter disposition” towards it.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 19 Nov 2024, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Nov 2024, 10:02 am

Cornflake wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ I need to get around to reading some of his work one of these days. :lol:
(of L.R. Hubbard)

Essential reading -

[Amazon.com] Bare Faced Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard (Russell Miller)

[Amazon.com] Let's sell these people A Piece of Blue Sky: Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology (Jon Atack)

Let's just say... you're not the only person who escaped a cult. :wink:

Wow! I’ll look into them. My brother has read some of Hubbard’s work (which he found incredibly boring) and critical books of Scientology as well. Maybe those. It’s interesting how much cults have in common as far as how they control people even if they aren’t based on the same source material. I’m thinking about the BITE Model.

Sometimes it’s fun to read cult literature as a completely aware person. I have very fond memories of reading some of The Book of Mormon with my son when we were staying in a hotel. I hadn’t laughed that hard in a long time. It’s so badly written and nutty although parts of the Bible are comparably silly, like the she bears episode.

Edited to add: On the topic of cults, I just overheard my mom say in her preaching Zoom call: “Don’t question, just obey.” SMH. She said it to a fellow JW. They handwrite proselytizing letters and chat over Zoom while doing so. There’s a cult song they all love with the title: “Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed.” It’s even worse than it sounds.



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19 Nov 2024, 11:48 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Are you an ex-Christian then, Cornflake?

This might explain your seeming bitter disposition towards Christianity, as an LGBTQ+ individual. :P
"Bitter disposition"?

Oh please. There you go again, reading stuff into criticisms that doesn't exist. :lol:
I have an issue (among others, and with others) with the dubious translation of Leviticus 18 and the way it's wielded as a club to hit LGBTQ+ folk - but Leviticus is not "Christianity".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviticus_18

As it happens some of the nicest people I've met were members of a church (during some visits to organ concerts at [Wikipedia] St. Botolphs and [Church site] What We Believe)
I really did feel like I'd known them for ages.

The church was the central part of this excellent, gentle comedy (although not as "St. Botolph's") - https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/rev/episodes/1/
Ooh - it's still on iPlayer, too - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -episode-1


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blitzkrieg
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19 Nov 2024, 11:59 am

Cornflake wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Are you an ex-Christian then, Cornflake?

This might explain your seeming bitter disposition towards Christianity, as an LGBTQ+ individual. :P
"Bitter disposition"?

Oh please. There you go again, reading stuff into criticisms that doesn't exist. :lol:
I have an issue (among others, and with others) with the dubious translation of Leviticus 18 and the way it's wielded as a club to hit LGBTQ+ folk - but Leviticus is not "Christianity".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviticus_18

As it happens some of the nicest people I've met were members of a church (during some visits to organ concerts at [Wikipedia] St. Botolphs and [Church site] What We Believe)
I really did feel like I'd known them for ages.

The church was the central part of this excellent, gentle comedy (although not as "St. Botolph's") - https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/rev/episodes/1/
Ooh - it's still on iPlayer, too - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -episode-1


I guess that you don't want to discuss escaping a cult then?

I always thought that your tone when discussing Christianity seemed a bit 'off', like you have a problem with it or something? Like you imply, perhaps this is merely something I have imagined?

I think that some parts of Christianity in general, do have an issue with people who fall into the LGBTQ+ category. I think that tends to be older generations though in certain places. Younger Christians seem to be a bit more progressive however, in my experience.

I suppose fundamentalist Christians especially might take to heart:

"Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." I am guessing that is the Leviticus you are referring to?

I shall check those links out! Thank you for those. :)



Last edited by blitzkrieg on 19 Nov 2024, 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Nov 2024, 11:59 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Wow! I’ll look into them. My brother has read some of Hubbard’s work (which he found incredibly boring) and critical books of Scientology as well. Maybe those.
Those two are probably the best known ones, and were (unsurprisingly) the subject of heated lawsuits from CoS. Failed, I'm happy to say. :lol:

Quote:
Sometimes it’s fun to read cult literature as a completely aware person.
Yes indeed.
I read some of the "forbidden" stuff about the OT levels (Google will oblige) and it was laughable. Utter drivel, incredibly weak SciFi.

Quote:
Edited to add: On the topic of cults, I just overheard my mom say in her preaching Zoom call: “Don’t question, just obey.” SMH. She said it to a fellow JW. They handwrite proselytizing letters and chat over Zoom while doing so. There’s a cult song they all love with the title: “Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed.” It’s even worse than it sounds.
Similar to CoS - the unforgivable act was to add to or subtract from the word of LRH. If it didn't make sense when read then it was because you'd misunderstood a word or two.
Your fault, and nothing to do with it being mind-numbing twaddle.


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19 Nov 2024, 12:08 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I guess that you don't want to discuss escaping a cult then?
There's really nothing to discuss.

Quote:
I always thought that your tone when discussing Christianity seemed a bit 'off', like you have a problem with it or something? Like you imply, perhaps this is merely something I have imagined?
I refer you to my earlier statement.

Quote:
I think that some parts of Christianity in general, do have an issue with people who fall into the LGBTQ+ category. I think that tends to be older generations though in certain places. Younger Christians seem to be a bit more progressive however, in my experience.
Cherry-picking. It always comes down to cherry-picking.
We once had a member, an extremely enthusiastic JW, who would be able to pluck from thin air a verse or two to shut down some argument or other. In a tiresome way it was almost amusing.

Quote:
"Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." I am guessing that is the Leviticus you are referring to?
The whole thing is ridiculous and loaded with bias and hatred. I linked it earlier, or at least its Wiki page.
A contradictory, escape-clause mess.

Quote:
I shall check those links out! Thank you for those. :)
:thumright:


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blitzkrieg
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19 Nov 2024, 12:13 pm

^ I find JW's to be the worst kind of Christian, honestly. I like to think of myself as a more liberal minded Christian, but JW's seem to be more often, ultra conservative, and don't seem very flexible/are more dogmatic with their beliefs.



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19 Nov 2024, 12:14 pm

Conservative Christianity is a problem, period. JWs aren’t as bad as some groups because they stay out of politics which lessens the amount of harm they can cause in a macro sense, not that there’s not huge problems among people within the cult - like suicide among those who are LGBTQ+.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 19 Nov 2024, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Nov 2024, 12:18 pm

I personally am very open to people from all political stripes, from centre-left to centre-right. I am a bit weary of extremists in either direction, however.

I just take people as they come, some people have their opinions which are unpalatable to others. I don't hold it against them.