Liars and Gaslighters

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Thread closed for psychological evaluation

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You're out of control

Just to mention, some of the worst liars / gaslighters I've known weren't actually abusive manipulators, so much as they were just spoiled brats raised by parents who let them get away with everything.

In their mind, they were just an innocent little bunny innocently hopping through the forest, when suddenly, a Big Bad Accident leaped out of nowhere and pounced on them! Nothing was ever their fault, and you were pure evil if you tried to hold them accountable.

Not every liar / gaslighter is a nefarious narcissistic ne'er-do-well either. Some are simply people who have been abused themselves, and have a distorted view of what is or isn't healthy or appropriate behavior. Some are simply people who were raised in that environment, and that's all they know, that's just how they think the world works.

Of course, (to paraphrase a quote from a book) one can debate and theorize all day as to why someone is a (sh*tty person), but at the end of the day, the fact remains that they are still a (sh*tty person).

"But I can help them! I can fix them!" - OMG no you can't, eff that noise, it's a trap. So long as acting that way gets them what they want, they will never change. Even if you do "make a breakthrough", and they do "admit" they did wrong, it won't last - they're just Saying The Right Thing, to make the problem (you complaining) go away.

Best way to deal with them? Don't.

My ex used his awful childhood as an excuse (among others) for horrific behavior. I’d make excuses for him and even believe him when he said that it wouldn’t happen again.

He’d apologize and the cycle of abuse would continue. This went on for years, and it gradually got worse and worse although it got to the point where I was docile and went along with whatever he wanted without too much of a fight.

I finally did reach a breaking point (which I vividly remember) and snapped out of it though. We had a very strange conversation in which he admitted that it was all about control and power. The excuses over the years were just calculated ways to get away with stuff and manipulate me. I was a very trusting person.

I think this conversation was just another attempt at demonstrating that he changed. I didn’t fall for it.

Good.

You were, as you said, a trusting person - by being "honest" and "open", displaying some "vulnerability", he was hoping to play to that trusting part again. By moving on from simply blaming his childhood and apologizing for things, to now also admitting that he is a power-and-control type, he can also give the illusion of progress, without actually having to change. "I'm working on it! Do you HAVE to keep bringing it up?! I KNOW already! I'm doing THE BEST I CAN, and I'm SORRY if that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH for YOU! Be PATIENT with me!"

He made every attempt he could to manipulate/gaslight me.

I wish I would’ve gotten rid of him sooner. Of course, I was afraid. If he could do what he did, why couldn’t he do what he threatened?

I think that being on the spectrum makes one much more likely to take people at their word and to be manipulated by harmful individuals.

I would agree, definitely - with a caveat.

As much as the community loves to toss about the tidbit about how "autistic people are more likely to be the victim of abuse than to be an abuser" or however it goes, this in no way precludes the possibility of someone being BOTH. Although autistic people almost certainly are at much higher risk to falling prey to abuse or manipulation, it is also true that:

People who are victims of abuse often develop a distorted view of what is or isn't healthy behavior. Consequently, it is also likely for those individuals to also engage in abusive behavior themselves, due to their now distorted view of behavior. They may think that what they're doing is "acceptable", or not realize that it's "unacceptable".

The same social difficulty that autistic individuals have with identifying an abuser, are also difficulties with identifying what is or isn't abusive behavior - and in that same vein, may not realize that the behaviors they too exhibit are also abusive in nature. In the process of trying to learn social skills, we may occasionally learn the "wrong skill", as it were.

Combine the two, and although autistic individuals may be more likely to fall for abuse, they are also quite capable of being abusers, too. Not the evil mastermind abuser with nefarious master plans who moves people around like chess pieces muhaha - more like an angry child doing to others as they have had done to them, thinking it's "ok" to do so.

Neither lying nor gaslighting are terribly difficult skills to learn, being well within the capabilities of the average 5 year old child who learns to say "no" instead of "yes", when asked if they did the thing that they did in fact do, as a means of avoiding the consequences that "yes" usually brings - or that if they scream loud enough, long enough, sometimes they get their way, just to maintain the peace - or that making excuses can be surprisingly effective if you stick to them to the point where it's not worth the fight, to the other person.

Sometimes the habits of lying or gaslighting are merely the means and methods learned and relied upon - for better or worse - to "keep other people happy", or to "avoid conflict", or even to "stand up for one's self" - valid concerns on the surface, but not the best way to respond.

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Look at how people treat strangers and service employees. It can tell you a lot. It's sort of like the Shopping Cart test.

This thread reminds me of most of the people i have ever had close associations with except 4 , which was refreshing to have known these 4 people .

To spread awareness...

The Eleven Signs of Gaslighting

1. They tell blatant lies.
2. They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.
3. They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.
4. They wear you down over time.
5. Their actions do not match their words.
6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.
7. They know confusion weakens people.
8. They project.
9. They try to align people against you.
10. They tell you or others that you are crazy.
11. They tell you everyone else is a liar.

I can't watch those types of videos with computer animation but the list looks good. ^