How do we know where ASD ends and comorbids begin?

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IsabellaLinton
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22 May 2023, 6:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
or rabbit hole topics like when I had to buy a new fridge and I got obsessed checking the stats to make sure I found the exactly right size down to the millimetre, or getting the exactly right colour of yarn to fix my Holly Hobby.


I've always attributed stuff like that (at least, for me) as an expression of ADD.


Attention Deficit? Isn't it "paying too much attention"?
Maybe ADD means not paying attention to the world around you.
When I rabbit hole like that, the house could catch fire and I wouldn't know.
I can go almost 24 hours on one hyper-intense thought without eating or drinking.
When it ends I can't even walk in a straight line.
I'm paying too much attention to the task, but not enough on anything else.

Thank goodness it doesn't happen all the time.
It doesn't even happen at will.
I can't control it but it happens maybe every couple of months for a topic or two.


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TwilightPrincess
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22 May 2023, 6:08 pm

My obsessive thinking is trauma-related, too.

Sometimes I have trouble focusing on things that aren't related to whatever special interest I'm obsessed with at the time.



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22 May 2023, 6:09 pm

This is a genuine problem for me. In the heat of the moment I find it hard to tell the difference between autistic meltdown, a panic attack, and an asthma attack. Each of the three needs different handling, and I often get it wrong.


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22 May 2023, 6:44 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
or rabbit hole topics like when I had to buy a new fridge and I got obsessed checking the stats to make sure I found the exactly right size down to the millimetre, or getting the exactly right colour of yarn to fix my Holly Hobby.


I've always attributed stuff like that (at least, for me) as an expression of ADD.


Attention Deficit? Isn't it "paying too much attention"?
Maybe ADD means not paying attention to the world around you.
When I rabbit hole like that, the house could catch fire and I wouldn't know.
I can go almost 24 hours on one hyper-intense thought without eating or drinking.
When it ends I can't even walk in a straight line.
I'm paying too much attention to the task, but not enough on anything else.

Thank goodness it doesn't happen all the time.
It doesn't even happen at will.
I can't control it but it happens maybe every couple of months for a topic or two.


Wow, I don't think I've ever hyperfocused that much. While I am doing a task my ears are open to every sound around me and every movement. So if I'm playing a computer game with my headphones on I can still know when my boyfriend walks into the room even though the door is behind me. If I don't notice him coming in then his sudden presence can make me jump. I'm very jumpy. But usually I can hear or see activity or movement even when focused on something else.

If I got a new fridge or something I wouldn't be obsessing, I'd just like the look of it and buy it and get excited for when it comes. However, I obsess vigorously over social things.


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IsabellaLinton
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22 May 2023, 7:00 pm

It's not that I care about fridges. I had a kitchen renovation done and they changed the cabinets around so there was only a very specific size of fridge that would fit, and anything else would be too tall. I needed a size that didn't exist, basically. After delivery you can't return them if I got it wrong by as much as a millimetre. If I found one short enough they were always way TOO short which also meant too narrow, and it wouldn't fill the space and it would look stupid. I occasionally found some that weren't too bad in terms of size but they didn't have the other features I liked, or else they had bad reviews, or sometimes they were crazy expensive like $4500 for a stupid fridge. It was really frustrating and I couldn't just pick anything, but at the same time it was summer and our other fridge was already removed, so I couldn't delay in finding a new one. I likely spent about 36 hours straight scouring every website in the country and also trying to find one that was in stock and could be delivered for me asap.

Holly's hair needed to be right too. If I was going to commit to fixing her, I needed to do it right. It was Covid and I couldn't sample colours in shops because everything was shut so I spent about 100 hours online ordering colours from around the world and sending back the ones I didn't use.

Examples like these ^ are when the thing HAD to be right, but in normal daily situations I don't get like that and don't try to be perfect or obsess over anything. I'm very laid back and mellow and don't even make decisions most of the time. I just let stuff happen however it happens.


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22 May 2023, 8:05 pm

The test gives me 2 conditions -- neither which I have nor relate to at my best, and gives 7 conditions at worst in which most I could explain 'why'.

Those two conditions that shown to both times; tourettes and bipolar.

The former can be explained by the way I react to discomfort and ASD related issues.
The latter lean towards whatever psychiatric emotional hang ups, and cyclical metabolic issues I have.
Neither are 'severe' when I'm at my best, and at worst, it's just mostly emotional dysregulation related.


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23 May 2023, 4:02 am

Quote:
It's important to note that every child is different, and the presentation of autism and ADHD can vary widely. A child with autism but without ADHD may exhibit challenges related to social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors, while a child with both autism and ADHD may have difficulties with attention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity in addition to the core autism features. A child with ADHD without autism would primarily display symptoms of inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity, without the specific social and communication challenges associated with autism.


ADHD can affect a person's social skills too.


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23 May 2023, 7:25 am

My results:
1. Depression
2. Autism
3. ADHD
4. SPD
5. Dyscalculia


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23 May 2023, 7:36 am

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
One of the reasons I like the term AuDHD is that it helps express the idea that when those two are comorbids that it's impossible to detangle them fully given the overlapping symptom profile.

And I wonder if there's any point in "detangling" them. Lines can't always be so neatly drawn.

Generally speaking, if you can't trace an issue back to a specific diagnosis, it probably doesn't matter.

But, the same apparent issue can have very different treatments depending upon where the issue is coming from. For example. you don't normally take psychostimulants for anxiety as that normally just makes the anxiety works. I think that's common sense. But, if you're like me and have OCD that's being driven by ADHD, the stimulants actually produce a significant amount of calming.

Likewise, with ASD and OCD, there's a signifciant difference in terms of ASD inertial stuckness and OCD overfocus that have different solutions.

As for the OP, it is frequently incredibly hard, even for experienced clinicians sometimes to know where the issue is and what to do with it. OCD and ADHD often times look very similar if you're not really careful. And likewise, having both OCD and ADHD is going to look suspiciously similar to ASD in some ways.



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23 May 2023, 7:38 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's not that I care about fridges. I had a kitchen renovation done and they changed the cabinets around so there was only a very specific size of fridge that would fit, and anything else would be too tall. I needed a size that didn't exist, basically. After delivery you can't return them if I got it wrong by as much as a millimetre. If I found one short enough they were always way TOO short which also meant too narrow, and it wouldn't fill the space and it would look stupid. I occasionally found some that weren't too bad in terms of size but they didn't have the other features I liked, or else they had bad reviews, or sometimes they were crazy expensive like $4500 for a stupid fridge. It was really frustrating and I couldn't just pick anything, but at the same time it was summer and our other fridge was already removed, so I couldn't delay in finding a new one. I likely spent about 36 hours straight scouring every website in the country and also trying to find one that was in stock and could be delivered for me asap.

Holly's hair needed to be right too. If I was going to commit to fixing her, I needed to do it right. It was Covid and I couldn't sample colours in shops because everything was shut so I spent about 100 hours online ordering colours from around the world and sending back the ones I didn't use.

Examples like these ^ are when the thing HAD to be right, but in normal daily situations I don't get like that and don't try to be perfect or obsess over anything. I'm very laid back and mellow and don't even make decisions most of the time. I just let stuff happen however it happens.


If you're that tight that a milimeter matters, you're already way too big. Refrigerators need a few inches on each side in order to allow the hot air behind them to move towards the rest of the room. One mm should be no problem if the refrigerator isn't already oversized for the space.

Also as somebody with diagnosed OCD, this is extremely relatable, even if a bit misguided in this case.



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23 May 2023, 7:54 am

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
...A child with ADHD without autism would primarily display symptoms of inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity, without the specific social and communication challenges associated with autism.


ADHD can affect a person's social skills too.

Case in Point: my son. He's not relating to peers right now, but has related to ND peers in the past. He fits online descriptions for Autism PDA (more social than typical ASD, but shares most other ASD markers; albeit he's sensory-seeking for touch). Autism PDA doesn't appear to be a "real" diagnosis, so perhaps it's considered BAP (broad autism phenotype)? His recent diagnosis was GAD / ADHD. They said moderate GAD and mild ADHD. There is nothing "mild" about my son. He is intelligent, sensitive and intense.



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23 May 2023, 9:06 am

When I was diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago or more I ticked most of the boxes.

I rather consider myself as PPD-NOS, or BAP, whatever it is. It seems that BAP is common in my family but to me they are NTs, but with shyness, lack of confidence, and prone to depression and anxiety.
Sometimes I wonder if my dad is ADHD, even though he's not hyperactive. But hyperactivity doesn't have to necessarily mean being loud and extroverted.

With Isabella, I think it's quite normal, and understandable, to obsess over a fridge when you couldn't sample in shops and would have difficulties sending it back. I think anyone would be precise about that. I'd be stressed too if I were in that situation.
There are some things that you can't do as efficiently online as you can when you're there in the shop. I'd much rather go to the shop if I'm going to be buying something big and expensive.


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23 May 2023, 11:34 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
or rabbit hole topics like when I had to buy a new fridge and I got obsessed checking the stats to make sure I found the exactly right size down to the millimetre, or getting the exactly right colour of yarn to fix my Holly Hobby.


I've always attributed stuff like that (at least, for me) as an expression of ADD.


Attention Deficit? Isn't it "paying too much attention"?
Maybe ADD means not paying attention to the world around you.
When I rabbit hole like that, the house could catch fire and I wouldn't know.
I can go almost 24 hours on one hyper-intense thought without eating or drinking.
When it ends I can't even walk in a straight line.
I'm paying too much attention to the task, but not enough on anything else.

Thank goodness it doesn't happen all the time.
It doesn't even happen at will.
I can't control it but it happens maybe every couple of months for a topic or two.


Rabbit holes seem (to me, a decidedly non-expert) to be the flipside of the tendency to struggle to maintain focus.

Normally whatever we do doesn't provide the dopamine fix to stay focused, but when we find something that does we're absolutely fixated.


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IsabellaLinton
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23 May 2023, 11:38 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Rabbit holes seem (to me, a decidedly non-expert) to be the flipside of the tendency to struggle to maintain focus.

Normally whatever we do doesn't provide the dopamine fix to stay focused, but when we find something that does we're absolutely fixated.



Yes I agree. So, do you think it's a manifestation of ADD gone wacky? Maybe our ability to pay attention is so messed up most of the time, it overcompensates by going warp-speed down pointless rabbit holes to the point we nearly starve and dehydrate ourselves to death. :lol:


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23 May 2023, 11:43 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Rabbit holes seem (to me, a decidedly non-expert) to be the flipside of the tendency to struggle to maintain focus.

Normally whatever we do doesn't provide the dopamine fix to stay focused, but when we find something that does we're absolutely fixated.



Yes I agree. So, do you think it's a manifestation of ADD gone wacky? Maybe our ability to pay attention is so messed up most of the time, it overcompensates by going warp-speed down pointless rabbit holes to the point we nearly starve and dehydrate ourselves to death. :lol:


I think that's basically it. Our brains want dopamine and want to follow the path of least resistance to get it.

There's also how some forms of stimming overlap with tweaking behaviours, which also makes it seem like the reward pathway is driving those sorts of behaviours.


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IsabellaLinton
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23 May 2023, 12:14 pm

What do you mean by tweaking behaviours?
At first I thought you meant twerking. :lol:


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